TigerAntho
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If you were Carlton at the draft who would you have rather taken at the draft between these two? Or would you have taken someone else like Rioli?
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Trent Cotchin or Matthew Kreuzer
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CARN THE BLUES!
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I would still pick Kreuzer, Carltons need for a ruckman was far greater than a need for a gun midfielder we have plenty of them ie Murph and gibbs
P.S Kreuz is one of a kind, good luck finding a gun ruckman who does more then just tap the ball.
P.S Kreuz is one of a kind, good luck finding a gun ruckman who does more then just tap the ball.
OP asks who carlton should have drafted and i still believe we made the right choice in getting kreuzer. i just answered this question in the other thread but it's more appropriate for this thread.
yes, i do think cotchin will be the better player of the two but carlton needed a ruckman, and a good big man is always more valuable than a dime a dozen midfielder. kreuzer is effectively two players rolled into one with his ability to win a ruck contest and become another midfielder or go up forward, take a big grab and kick a goal. kreuzer is a much rarer type of player but will be better than dean cox around the ground. i'm very comfortable that we chose kreuzer as are richmond supporters with cotchin, and cotchin will be the more valuable player over the next 3-4 years but after that i think kreuzer's worth will outweigh cotchin's.
yes, i do think cotchin will be the better player of the two but carlton needed a ruckman, and a good big man is always more valuable than a dime a dozen midfielder. kreuzer is effectively two players rolled into one with his ability to win a ruck contest and become another midfielder or go up forward, take a big grab and kick a goal. kreuzer is a much rarer type of player but will be better than dean cox around the ground. i'm very comfortable that we chose kreuzer as are richmond supporters with cotchin, and cotchin will be the more valuable player over the next 3-4 years but after that i think kreuzer's worth will outweigh cotchin's.
Quality midfielders arent "dime a dozen"
I agree that Carlton needed Kreuzer more. But there is a difference between midfielders. Blokes like Cotchin arent the same "dime a dozen" midfielder that say a Danny Meyer or Dean Polo is.
Kind of like Collingwood taking Josh Fraser at one hey
Kind of like Collingwood taking Josh Fraser at one hey
never ever compare kreuzer to fraser.
fraser is the weakest, softest, most heartless player in the comp.
kreuzer has a will and a desire to win that fraser couldn't even dream of. kreuzer puts his body on the line and puts in 4 or 5 efforts, lays smothers, tackles anythign just to win the ball. not to mention kreuzer can use his body to win the ball or take a big mark and he can kick like a midfielder off both feet.
kreuzer>>>>>>>>>>>>>daylight>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cinderella>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..josh fraser
Schmick
Club Legend
Needed Kreuzer, but should've gone best available (Cotchin) IMO. Can't complain with either player though.
Watch Fraser as a youngster. He wasn't always like that Buddy, infact, Kruezer and Fraser are amazingly similar as first year players.
Fraser's body has been rooted due to being thrown in the ruck as soon as he set foot at the club.
My point was (which you missed, imagine that) was that we would have justified selecting Fraser over Pavlich because we needed a ruck, just like you justified Kruezer over Cotchin.
Cotchin will be the far better player, and would've been a better selection imo.
Whilst i think Cotchin will most likely be the better player, he will never be able to win tap outs. Kreuzer was the player the blues needed most and has shown that he has the ability to become a very good running ruckman. Yes by the end of their careers Cotchin will most likely win more awards however Kreuzer will contribute to the blues in ways cotchin cannot. I still think Kreuzer will be a bloody good footballer though.
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I'd still take Kreuzer if I were Carlton.
Matty Kruezer was the best talent available in that draft by miles, so the Blues choice was ultimately an easy one. Just as there was a big talent gap between 1 and 2, there was an almost as big a talent gap between pick 2 and 3. Even Miller couldn't stuff that #2 pick up. Matty Kruezer possesses freakish abilities. Once the ball hits the deck, he plays as a true over-sized midfielder. His actual is a class inside-midfielder. Can also play wing, and KP forward. An extreme and unique talent. Cotchin should turn out good, although I'm concerned at the Tiges por development record. Plenty of players with ability have gone backwards and had their careers destroyed under the influence of the infamous "culture" at Richmond. If Cotchin were at the Blues, he'd be behind Gibbs and Murph, in the midfield talent pecking order. At Richmond he is easily the most talented player on their list. The problem is he has no midfield role models. It's just going to be an uphill battle, and a bit of bad luck for him the way the draft picks turned out.
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Without a doubt, we would still take Kreuzer.
telsor
Hall of Famer
They made the right call.
That's not to say I think Kreuzer is or will be the better player, but structurally, between 2 fairly even choices, they pretty much had to go for the tall.
That's not to say I think Kreuzer is or will be the better player, but structurally, between 2 fairly even choices, they pretty much had to go for the tall.
alberto_cat
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i picked cotchin without reading the first post because he is and alwasy will be a better player...
BUT, carlton needed a ruckman, not another midfielder (judd, stevens, murph, gibbs)
so i think they chose correctly for their needs, but i don't think they chose the best player from the draft
BUT, carlton needed a ruckman, not another midfielder (judd, stevens, murph, gibbs)
so i think they chose correctly for their needs, but i don't think they chose the best player from the draft
Sure Carlton needed a ruckman but i still think they should have taken Cotchin based on his pure skill and work ethic.
If i were Carlton i would of still take Kreuzer. Cotchin did have a better year but i can see Kreuzer becoming a star and maybe better then Cotchin. Tough one to pick after only a year, but can't say Carlton were wrong.
I am wrapt we got Cotchin, as I think would most of the RFC. Had carlton not tanked (just kidding...) and we picked first however, my bet is that we would have selected Kruezer and been very happy (and justified) with that choice.
We lacked rucks a little less that you given we have Simmonds, though he is getting on and our situation is now for ruck recruits. Kruezer should be a very effective big man for many years. He may well develop into a consistent game winner. He has such a great combination of tools, his size, desire, nous etc. etc.
Cotchin on the other hand is already an impact player who has the chance to be one of the games greats. His awareness and vision is so special and skills so good that he does legitimatley have that opportunity. His all around physical skills aren't much behind his awareness either. I doub't Kruezer could get to quite the same heights. But that all lives with the gods. He needs to get his body AFL fit and then turn all that potential into results.
Hindsight will not be 20/20 for another 10 years or so.
FWIW I prefer Cotchin, but I doubt you could fault Kruezers work ethic.
Matty Kruezer was the best talent available in that draft by miles, so the Blues choice was ultimately an easy one. Just as there was a big talent gap between 1 and 2, there was an almost as big a talent gap between pick 2 and 3. Even Miller couldn't stuff that #2 pick up. Matty Kruezer possesses freakish abilities. Once the ball hits the deck, he plays as a true over-sized midfielder. His actual is a class inside-midfielder. Can also play wing, and KP forward. An extreme and unique talent. Cotchin should turn out good, although I'm concerned at the Tiges por development record. Plenty of players with ability have gone backwards and had their careers destroyed under the influence of the infamous "culture" at Richmond. If Cotchin were at the Blues, he'd be behind Gibbs and Murph, in the midfield talent pecking order. At Richmond he is easily the most talented player on their list. The problem is he has no midfield role models. It's just going to be an uphill battle, and a bit of bad luck for him the way the draft picks turned out.
You take the best available player with the first 10-20 picks. Every decent recruiter knows that. You start picking on a needs basis after that or if your side is close to a flag like the hawks did with rioli last year.
Now I'm not sure about you but I'm tipping the blues are a fair way off the hawks last year so really the choice of cotchin should have been an obvious one however to the delight of the clubs behind them they picked kruezer who really on talent alone was the best ruckman in the mix but had a fair few players a fair way in front of him.
I'm sure kruezer will turn into a honest plodder in time much like a josh fraser or even a darren jolly if he applies himself but i think we all know including carlton fans if they look deep inside that a monumental error was made that fateful day last november....
This is surprising... insecure Richmond supporters perceive they may have actually won out of something and pounce.
Wrong.
Kreuzer is a first year ruckman. How could you expect any more from his debut season? If anything he far exceeded expectations. It will take time for him to transfer the weapons he had at junior level (elite endurance, physicality) to AFL level but in 2-3 years he will be a monster. A few pre-seasons and some time in the Carlton development academy and you will have one scary 200cm giant who will run opponents into the ground & grab games by the scruff of the neck.
Cotchin will also be a fantastic player and I don't think he is overhyped at all. Terrific footy smarts, beautiful kick and good in traffic. To add to his talent he also has a drive to get the best out of himself. Richmond have a 200 gamer on their hands, at the minimum.
And just for the Richmond supporters, here is a quote from the famous mojo:
"I think Kreuzer is the best kid in the draft. Not by a huge margin but he is clear in my opinion. Just depends on how some rate ruckmen. Some don’t and think its overpaying. Some think it’s the most vital position. I am in the middle really and take him due to his ability to win clearances and run hard and cause mismatch problems down the line and complement Hampson in the ruck down the line."
Wrong.
Kreuzer is a first year ruckman. How could you expect any more from his debut season? If anything he far exceeded expectations. It will take time for him to transfer the weapons he had at junior level (elite endurance, physicality) to AFL level but in 2-3 years he will be a monster. A few pre-seasons and some time in the Carlton development academy and you will have one scary 200cm giant who will run opponents into the ground & grab games by the scruff of the neck.
Cotchin will also be a fantastic player and I don't think he is overhyped at all. Terrific footy smarts, beautiful kick and good in traffic. To add to his talent he also has a drive to get the best out of himself. Richmond have a 200 gamer on their hands, at the minimum.
And just for the Richmond supporters, here is a quote from the famous mojo:
"I think Kreuzer is the best kid in the draft. Not by a huge margin but he is clear in my opinion. Just depends on how some rate ruckmen. Some don’t and think its overpaying. Some think it’s the most vital position. I am in the middle really and take him due to his ability to win clearances and run hard and cause mismatch problems down the line and complement Hampson in the ruck down the line."
Very far from an error mate. Imo Kreuzer had the best debut year from any 18 year old ruckman i have ever seen. I'm not denying that Cotchin is a great player and may well be a better player over his career. But in their first year there was little difference in both players performances to say that it was a monumental error. The big fella won us a game off his own boot and with less then 10 games to his belt. The kid has a lot of heart and desire and has shown that he will be a very good ruckman for a long period of time. I'm very happy we got him.
Heisenberg_
17🏆19🏆20🏆
I think you will find that Josh Fraser had a better first year
I can tell you who didn't though... Dean Putt... honestly where was this kid? MIA.I think you will find that Josh Fraser had a better first year
Heisenberg_
17🏆19🏆20🏆
Um, Dean Putt wasn't a number 1 pick, we are developing him in the reserves, and besides that he is a forward not a ruckmen
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