Society/Culture Unionism is holding Australia back

[Tas]

Oh wow. I'm Speechless.

You could also be postless.

Tell me what exactly feminism is fighting for nowadays?

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

You could also be postless.

Tell me what exactly feminism is fighting for nowadays?

How about not getting f**ked without consent

Nearly a quarter of men in six Asia-Pacific countries have admitted to committing rape, often against their own partners, according to a UN survey.

http://news.sky.com/story/1139612/rape-one-in-four-asia-pacific-men-admit-it

 

[kfc1]

It's harder being a mother. You have to juggle having a job as well as raising a kid.

wat

does having a vagina mean you're handicapped or something? Women have physiological differences is outdated sexist theory except when it suits the feminist argument?

 

[kfc1]

How about not getting f**ked without consent



http://news.sky.com/story/1139612/rape-one-in-four-asia-pacific-men-admit-it

Australian feminists are fighting to stop rape in developing countries? Seems legit.

 

[Tas]

How about not getting f**ked without consent



http://news.sky.com/story/1139612/rape-one-in-four-asia-pacific-men-admit-it

'Bangladesh, China, Cambodia, Indonesia, Sri Lanka and Papua New Guinea'

What relevance does it have to us? These countries have different societies to us based on different values.

What about women assaulting men? Where is the outcry of the increasing frequency of women assaulting men?

http://www.news.com.au/national-new...n-beating-up-men/story-e6frfkvr-1225869842575

 

[kfc1]

What about women assaulting men? Where is the outcry of the increasing frequency of women assaulting men?

http://www.news.com.au/national-new...n-beating-up-men/story-e6frfkvr-1225869842575

inb4 "man up" "emasculated" "revoke your man card" "reclaim your testicles"

 

[Tas]

inb4 "man up" "emasculated" "revoke your man card" "reclaim your testicles"

I don't want this to degenerate into a man vs woman thing. I love women and want them and expect them to have equal opportunity. Violence and assault should not be tolerated, to any gender. My problem is when people single out violence vs one gender alone.

We, as a society, do not condone violence be it physical or sexually related. You do not need to be pro-feminism to be against illegal acts.

Women are more likely to be victims of abuse than men, but what bothers me is that men in general are against abuse of women. Abuse of men by women is considered a joke. Women on tv laugh and carry on when some psychopath women cuts off her husband's penis.

There is an ugly side of feminism which wouldn't be tolerated if it was men.

 

[kfc1]

I concur Tas, unfortunately all discussions on this topic seem to degenerate to that in fairly quick time.

 

[Richo83]

wat

does having a vagina mean you're handicapped or something? Women have physiological differences is outdated sexist theory except when it suits the feminist argument?

Who are the primary care givers in society? Women. Who are expected to do the lion's share of care givers as well as have a job? Women. This isn't about psychological differences, it's about basic facts about the current roles of women and men.

 

[L_W_P]

Is this thread about Unionism, Feminism, Population control, welfare or all of the above?

Came in for some good old CFMEU hatin and find myself in the GD board feminism thread.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

'Bangladesh, China, Cambodia, Indonesia, Sri Lanka and Papua New Guinea'

What relevance does it have to us? These countries have different societies to us based on different values.

What about women assaulting men? Where is the outcry of the increasing frequency of women assaulting men?

http://www.news.com.au/national-new...n-beating-up-men/story-e6frfkvr-1225869842575

If it occurred at the levels of male on female violence as opposed to isolated incidents there would be an outcry. There's already a thread on GD that provides an ample platform for fellow pussy eunuchs to bleat about the dangers of feminism.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/feminism-over-it.985637/page-44#post-30088214

Stay on topic and stick to union bashing

 

[kfc1]

Who are the primary care givers in society? Women. Who are expected to do the lion's share of care givers as well as have a job? Women. This isn't about psychological differences, it's about basic facts about the current roles of women and men.

You seem to think that men don't do any kid-raising based on your post that I quoted.

Richo83 said: ↑
It's harder being a mother. You have to juggle having a job as well as raising a kid.

 

[Tas]

Is this thread about Unionism, Feminism, Population control, welfare or all of the above?

Came in for some good old CFMEU hatin and find myself in the GD board feminism thread.

Mostly unionism, but to understand people refusing to let go of something past it's use-by date they need a compelling comparison and feminism is long past it's use-by date. People seem to think the needs of women will not be considered post feminism, which is an amusing point of view.

We as a society too easily latch onto perceived point of views, like the people who always vote Labor or Libs or whatever party irrespective how moronic the party is at a given time, irrespective how they do not represent the values.

I consider myself ideologically right but can't bring myself to vote for any party that claims to be right, because they are not. Their policies are as bad if not usually worse than left parties.

We are at a point in time where people can promote equality for all races, all genders but we still have people who struggle to let go of what it was like in the past and are hell bent on a course of action or belief even if it is long obsolete.

It is like creationism vs evolution, feminism vs reality, unionism vs reality. People are too easily blinded from the truth and even against irrefutable evidence still cling to some outdated belief.

Also, there has been nobody really that said anything convincingly positive about unionism, at all, which has made other points of the conversation more of a focus.

 

[Richo83]

You seem to think that men don't do any kid-raising based on your post that I quoted.

Most of the childcare is done by women, and according to tas, women and men are different, implying different roles for childcare. You're jumping the gun and trying to trap me in a claim that was never said.

 

[Whit3y]

Came in for some good old CFMEU hatin

yes i too was licking my lips in anticipation over some union hatin reading

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Mental health and education would be no harder to privatise than any other business, Further, given the government would still be the major customer it would remain largely in control of the business outcomes but not be responsible for the employees thus breaking the government union control.


oh and great if your union is not like the two examples.

The messy hotchpotch that is mental health care in the USA is nothing short of a disgrace

The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration recently released the results from its 2011 national survey on mental health. One of the most disturbing results in this survey is that only 38% of individuals with mental health issues have received appropriate services.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/2...e-when-they-need-it-and-for-one-simple-reason

Interesting chart

Privatised health has been tried in Mildura, with resultant public backlash. Napthine's decided to buy it back.

People before profit, PR

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Mostly unionism, but to understand people refusing to let go of something past it's use-by date they need a compelling comparison and feminism is long past it's use-by date. People seem to think the needs of women will not be considered post feminism, which is an amusing point of view.

We as a society too easily latch onto perceived point of views, like the people who always vote Labor or Libs or whatever party irrespective how moronic the party is at a given time, irrespective how they do not represent the values.

I consider myself ideologically right but can't bring myself to vote for any party that claims to be right, because they are not. Their policies are as bad if not usually worse than left parties.

We are at a point in time where people can promote equality for all races, all genders but we still have people who struggle to let go of what it was like in the past and are hell bent on a course of action or belief even if it is long obsolete.

It is like creationism vs evolution, feminism vs reality, unionism vs reality. People are too easily blinded from the truth and even against irrefutable evidence still cling to some outdated belief.

Also, there has been nobody really that said anything convincingly positive about unionism, at all, which has made other points of the conversation more of a focus.

Please explain what you mean by this

 

[Power Raid]

The messy hotchpotch that is mental health care in the USA is nothing short of a disgrace



http://www.policymic.com/articles/2...e-when-they-need-it-and-for-one-simple-reason

Interesting chart

Privatised health has been tried in Mildura, with resultant public backlash. Napthine's decided to buy it back.

People before profit, PR

I think you are getting confused as to what privatisation is and the various models that can be achieved.

I am rolling out a chain of medical centres that are private but offer no gap service.

how is that putting profit before people?

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

I think you are getting confused as to what privatisation is and the various models that can be achieved.

I am rolling out a chain of medical centres that are private but offer no gap service.

how is that putting profit before people?

I was specifically referring to privatised mental health. GPs are private health providers. I'm well aware of the various models having worked in the health sector (both public and private) both here and overseas for 20 years

 

[Power Raid]

I was specifically referring to privatised mental health. GPs are private health providers. I'm well aware of the various models having worked in the health sector (both public and private) both here and overseas for 20 years

After the roll out of medical centre we will expand into other health sectors like dental and hopefully mental health.

Our fight is not with the private sector as loads of well known businessmen are writing checks, the fight isn't with charities as they are providing support including office space and the fight isn't with government as federal, state and even local council has assisted the whole way through.

The fight is yet to happen but it is with the AMA. Surprise surprise a union (that doesn't call itself a union)!

 

[Power Raid]

I was specifically referring to privatised mental health. GPs are private health providers. I'm well aware of the various models having worked in the health sector (both public and private) both here and overseas for 20 years

There are a number of high profile guys with fathers, brothers and other family members suffering from mental health. I am actually surprised how many there are.

A partner at an accounting firm has a father who lives in StBart's men shelter after frying his brain with alcohol. A MD of a resource company has a brother, with a drug problem, who goes missing for months at a time before being located living on the streets.

This has fuelled a group of guys to launch the health initiative to provide a no gap health system. By being private, well funded and well connected we can fight the various barriers to affordable health care. Let's what happens.

 

[Upgrayedd]

You could also be postless.

Tell me what exactly feminism is fighting for nowadays?

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/women-leadership

Simply the first freaking thing that popped up into my head, I'ld imagine you could pull out more when you can be bothered.

General respect? If your posting shit like this then "Feminism" will still have some work to do to catchup

 

[Tas]

Please explain what you mean by this

Unionism or the labour movement was an integral part of the evolution of our society, but unions are now like a doctor who keeps operating on a healthy patient because he has run out of damaged body parts to operate on.

When you look back at our history, we were a penal colony, prisoners operated under conditions of slavery and conditions were governed by the Master and Servant Act. Employees in the early era of Australia who left employment without permission were hunted down. At one point in time there was a major need to improve the mechanism between worker, employer and lawmakers. Society had to change.

Changes made by the early labour movment where fundamental changes, critical changes which were desperately needed.

We do not need militant unions any longer, ACTU is now the body which represents workers in Australia. It's function can easily be accommodate for within a government department which represents workers rights, conditions and hears disputes between workers and employers.

Minimum wages prevent people getting work, prevent employers employing more workers, force employers to overwork existing workers and at the first sign of a rough sea sack massive chunks of the workforce. It is a terrible model. People are afraid of losing their job only because they are daunted by the prospect of having to find a new one.

Under the minimum wage system if your productivity doesn't meet the minimum wage you are a liability to society and might as well take a bullet to the head. It doesn't have to be this way.

Unionism is about political power and control. A union is the doorway to the ALP and into politics. If there was an organisation for political progress for the Liberal coalition party it would be a union of thugs, crooks and scam artists.

There is nothing left for unionism other than politics, power and control. The only real minority need is to protect public servants from the government itself because you invariably do not have a lot of opportunity for choice if you are a fireman, policeman or teacher.

 

[Tas]

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/women-leadership

Simply the first freaking thing that popped up into my head, I'ld imagine you could pull out more when you can be bothered.

General respect? If your posting shit like this then "Feminism" will still have some work to do to catchup

lol this is a joke, right?

This is sexism.

"Public sector reform

In late 2010, the Gillard federal government announced that a target of 40% women, 40% men and 20% unallocated will apply to government boards. The target applies to each portfolio "

Lets forget if the women are best qualified for the job or not, lets make 40% of them women just for the point of having women.
What you are talking about is excluding men from positions for women. If the claim is AS qualified women who can do the job are being excluded for reasons of gender then prosecute the people who are excluding women.
Placing artificial quotas based on gender is abhorrent and sexist. True equality is getting the best people for the job, irrespective of gender, if that is 100% women then go for it. What you and feminist promote is inequality.

EQUAL does that ****ing word mean anything to anyone?

 

[DrKrieger]

Without wanting to comment too much on the feminism issue in a union thread, I agree with Tas that it's wrong to say "X number of Y must be women," it is sexism. My own test for these things is if you swap the words "man" and "women" around in the statement, would you be chastised for it.

If they said "half of all board members must be men" people would rightfully be up in arms, changing the genders doesn't make it any more acceptable IMHO. I think delirious's link, while it raises some important points, needs to look at the % of graduates in those professions as of 20 years (or however long it takes to reach management level in that field) ago, as those are the ones in line for the top jobs now.

Back on topic, unions occasionally have their place and occasionally do more harm than good. I'd hate to think of the condition our health system would be in without the nurses union.

But there is a fantastic article (which I can't find, that's frustrating) which raises several great points about the closure of Ford in Geelong, along the lines of the conditions put on EAs by the union made it impossible for Ford to reduce costs in order to keep running. Every now and then a union seems to ignore the commercial realities facing the business and just pushes for pay rises + no redundancy, even when the company is losing market share/money etc.

So in a sense it is like feminism, in that in some areas they are still needed, in other areas they have gone too far and need to be pulled back into line.