Happy to accept fwiw
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
VAFA General Discussion
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Over The Post
🐍Bless The OOBs🐍
- Nov 17, 2007
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Ophidian Old Boys
It’s hard to get a read on his coaching from OT? Followed Bernie who is old school and didn’t have the cattle to be successful. Mr Martyn is still the one for me.
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Expecting more angst or anger about the club with about 15 different clubs in its set up .
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Please tell ...
There's a strong rumour that the unprincipled recruiting by Glen Eira will mean the Monders are unlikely to be able to field an U19 team in 2023.
Surely, the VAFA admin can't just turn a blind eye to the allegation a club used the gift of meals and beverages to entice a significant number of impressionable kids from another club thereby effectively wrecking that club's junior ranks.
You'd hope a proactive VAFA admin would feel the same way.
I'd suggest the allegations at least run counter to the spirit of recruiting and you wouldn't want that practice if shown to be true, to become widespread I'd have thought.
Certainly nothing of this alleged dimension I've heard of hitherto.
Must have been some sort of meal! Assume based on previous discussions the intended targets were McKinnon Sec kids?
Sad to see any club battle to field U19s and would be disappointing if Ormond juniors (e.g. 2022 U17s) departed on the lure of a free feed. But its only November and I’m sure a great club like Ormond can find some willing kids from elsewhere.
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- Nov 2, 2006
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Unfortunately the 'inducements' to get top age under 15-17's to 19's or seniors has been going on for years, well beyond just cash!
My experience has seen anything from scholarships to private schools if they play with old boys clubs to two coaches paid a 'significant' amount of money to take a whole under 17's team to an NFNL club
So, if food and grog get it done these days I might suggest to our powerbrokers to look for a couple more restaurants to sponsor us moving forward!
Chump
PS - I wonder if those two coaches ever did advise the parents of all those 17's kids why they thought a move was such a good idea
My experience has seen anything from scholarships to private schools if they play with old boys clubs to two coaches paid a 'significant' amount of money to take a whole under 17's team to an NFNL club
So, if food and grog get it done these days I might suggest to our powerbrokers to look for a couple more restaurants to sponsor us moving forward!
Chump
PS - I wonder if those two coaches ever did advise the parents of all those 17's kids why they thought a move was such a good idea
It's been a while since I have commented on here and probably should change my name to GE Gryphon, but I have had enough of the potshots from a usually measured AM.
Lets get a few fact straight.
Firstly AM's comment "Grow a pair and develop your own"
We grew a pair and developed our own only to be stopped at every turn by surrounding clubs including Ormond.
Over 10 years we developed an Auskick program from scratch to over 150 kids on a Friday night and Saturday Morning. We applied for admission to the SMJFL four years in a row only to have the goalposts moved each year with influence from surrounding clubs. During this time we were lucky to have Bentleigh JFC agree to let us play under their banner at Packer Park and had 8 teams up and running within four years. We spent over $20K in legal fees, and appealed to the AFL and AFL Victoria only to be told that the they had no influence over the SMJFL's rules and there was nothing more that could be done. At our last application we were told that we would not be able to have a junior clubs until every club within 10kms had a full complement of teams. The definition of a full complement was 10 teams for every ground a club had access to. Most clubs within our area have less than 15 teams with access to 3 grounds, so it was never going to happen.
When Bentleigh was advised by the council that they needed to have more teams playing on their grounds or risk losing use them, they told us if we wanted to continue to use their banner we would have to play at their grounds. Although appreciative of their help, we still had the goal of having a junior club at Packer Park and pursued a relationship with St Paul's until the SMJFL provided the final guidelines to having a junior club and we threw in the towel.
As a side note, one of the main reasons Oakleigh Districts left the SFL was that they could not have a junior club under the new admission rules and the EFL would provide that opportunity.
Ormond Junior football club very much influential in stopping us having a junior football club and their ex president wrote the current rules regarding the admission of clubs to the SMJFL. Although Bedford has his belief that the senior club had no objection to us having a junior club, this is 100% not correct.
When our Vice President contacted their senior club for support for our Junior club he was directly told that they would not support it as they did not want our club to have juniors, they did not want us to survive and wanted our ground as an additional ground for the growth of "their" junior club. This was not the first time we had heard this from them. Around 2010 or 2011 our president was contacted by the then Ormond President with the offer of an amalgamation. The only problem was it was not an amalgamation he was after, it was a take over. The terms were, Ormond keep our name, ground, song, you get your initials on the back of our jumper and we take your ground for "our" juniors.
Let's now turn to the relationship with McKinnon Secondary.
This all started when a group of Mckinnon Students were unhappy with the culture at their respective clubs and wanted to build something of their own. They approached the leaders at the school and a process was started which resulted in them asking us to have a joint venture. As our junior ambitions had been blocked we embraced this relationship and to date it has been successful in reinvigorating the club both on an off the field.
We have not targeted anyones under 17's we have targeted McKinnon Secondary students to come and play in the "Old McKinnon/Glen Eira" under 19 team. This is not unlike how De La Salle may target, students to play under 19s for them. The only difference is that De La have a bigger catchment area whereas ours is targeted around McKinnon and really only draws from the juniors of 3 or 4 clubs. Bentleigh seem to be able to hold onto their McKinnon Secondary players and have had 2 under teams consistently over the years
Having meetings with potential under 19 teams with food and drink is hardly a new thing. I was a Murrumbeena/Ormond Junior and was taken out by a De La Old Boys group in the 90's, the aim was for us to come and play under 19s the next year. Most of the people on this board who have commented on this issue are either Ormond affiliated or have a history of potting our club on Bigfooty.
We will continue to work hard on fostering our relationship with the school and provide a pathway for kids to play football with their school mates.
Lets get a few fact straight.
Firstly AM's comment "Grow a pair and develop your own"
We grew a pair and developed our own only to be stopped at every turn by surrounding clubs including Ormond.
Over 10 years we developed an Auskick program from scratch to over 150 kids on a Friday night and Saturday Morning. We applied for admission to the SMJFL four years in a row only to have the goalposts moved each year with influence from surrounding clubs. During this time we were lucky to have Bentleigh JFC agree to let us play under their banner at Packer Park and had 8 teams up and running within four years. We spent over $20K in legal fees, and appealed to the AFL and AFL Victoria only to be told that the they had no influence over the SMJFL's rules and there was nothing more that could be done. At our last application we were told that we would not be able to have a junior clubs until every club within 10kms had a full complement of teams. The definition of a full complement was 10 teams for every ground a club had access to. Most clubs within our area have less than 15 teams with access to 3 grounds, so it was never going to happen.
When Bentleigh was advised by the council that they needed to have more teams playing on their grounds or risk losing use them, they told us if we wanted to continue to use their banner we would have to play at their grounds. Although appreciative of their help, we still had the goal of having a junior club at Packer Park and pursued a relationship with St Paul's until the SMJFL provided the final guidelines to having a junior club and we threw in the towel.
As a side note, one of the main reasons Oakleigh Districts left the SFL was that they could not have a junior club under the new admission rules and the EFL would provide that opportunity.
Ormond Junior football club very much influential in stopping us having a junior football club and their ex president wrote the current rules regarding the admission of clubs to the SMJFL. Although Bedford has his belief that the senior club had no objection to us having a junior club, this is 100% not correct.
When our Vice President contacted their senior club for support for our Junior club he was directly told that they would not support it as they did not want our club to have juniors, they did not want us to survive and wanted our ground as an additional ground for the growth of "their" junior club. This was not the first time we had heard this from them. Around 2010 or 2011 our president was contacted by the then Ormond President with the offer of an amalgamation. The only problem was it was not an amalgamation he was after, it was a take over. The terms were, Ormond keep our name, ground, song, you get your initials on the back of our jumper and we take your ground for "our" juniors.
Let's now turn to the relationship with McKinnon Secondary.
This all started when a group of Mckinnon Students were unhappy with the culture at their respective clubs and wanted to build something of their own. They approached the leaders at the school and a process was started which resulted in them asking us to have a joint venture. As our junior ambitions had been blocked we embraced this relationship and to date it has been successful in reinvigorating the club both on an off the field.
We have not targeted anyones under 17's we have targeted McKinnon Secondary students to come and play in the "Old McKinnon/Glen Eira" under 19 team. This is not unlike how De La Salle may target, students to play under 19s for them. The only difference is that De La have a bigger catchment area whereas ours is targeted around McKinnon and really only draws from the juniors of 3 or 4 clubs. Bentleigh seem to be able to hold onto their McKinnon Secondary players and have had 2 under teams consistently over the years
Having meetings with potential under 19 teams with food and drink is hardly a new thing. I was a Murrumbeena/Ormond Junior and was taken out by a De La Old Boys group in the 90's, the aim was for us to come and play under 19s the next year. Most of the people on this board who have commented on this issue are either Ormond affiliated or have a history of potting our club on Bigfooty.
We will continue to work hard on fostering our relationship with the school and provide a pathway for kids to play football with their school mates.
Mr Platinum
All Australian
- Mar 25, 2022
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Mr AM, are you really suggesting that a footy club can’t invite some kids for beers and a sausage to try and recruit them to their club?
My club lost 14 players from one team to East Malvern in the Shit Footy League this year because we took our eyes off the ball, that was our fault and something we won’t let happen again.
I’m sure Ormond will be working hard to get those boys back to the club, the footy doesn’t start until April 25.
Thanks for the history lesson GE Saint. I guess one person's "potshots" is another person raising a matter of quite some concern.
Bedford can address some of the matters you raise in your history lesson as I have no involvement with the club. The questions I've raised are derived from issues brought to my attention over years. My only response to your club having been unsuccessful in being able to structure a junior program in the first instance is to persevere until your presentation has sufficient force it cannot be refused. Rather than raid other clubs, particularly other amateur clubs, particularly district ones.
As interesting as your history lesson is it pays little attention to the central matter which is your club targeting a significant number of junior players who were Ormond juniors and which you knew were Ormond juniors. The school they attend is a peripheral matter as the players were not uncommitted. I'm advised the number of Ormond juniors in your recruiting raid is so significant it has placed at risk Ormond being capable of fielding a U19 team in 2023. By the way, I'm led to believe it's not the first occasion that your club has tried this approach.
The comparison with DeLa is risible as my understanding is their school is their primary feeder as is the case with most private schools, which is of course their major advantage.
Raiding other amateur clubs' youth in a wholesale manner, particularly district clubs, I regard as ordinary behaviour and counter-productive. And not something desirable if it was to become an acceptable practice.
Bedford can address some of the matters you raise in your history lesson as I have no involvement with the club. The questions I've raised are derived from issues brought to my attention over years. My only response to your club having been unsuccessful in being able to structure a junior program in the first instance is to persevere until your presentation has sufficient force it cannot be refused. Rather than raid other clubs, particularly other amateur clubs, particularly district ones.
As interesting as your history lesson is it pays little attention to the central matter which is your club targeting a significant number of junior players who were Ormond juniors and which you knew were Ormond juniors. The school they attend is a peripheral matter as the players were not uncommitted. I'm advised the number of Ormond juniors in your recruiting raid is so significant it has placed at risk Ormond being capable of fielding a U19 team in 2023. By the way, I'm led to believe it's not the first occasion that your club has tried this approach.
The comparison with DeLa is risible as my understanding is their school is their primary feeder as is the case with most private schools, which is of course their major advantage.
Raiding other amateur clubs' youth in a wholesale manner, particularly district clubs, I regard as ordinary behaviour and counter-productive. And not something desirable if it was to become an acceptable practice.
I'm being told that a few WRFL clubs are keeping an eye on the ongoing saga of St Albans and Deer Park's attempt to transfer to the EDFL.
Should the EDFL win out, the future of the WRFL's third division could be in limbo and the expectation is that there might be a few current Division 2 and 3 clubs looking cross over to the VAFA in 2024.
Should the EDFL win out, the future of the WRFL's third division could be in limbo and the expectation is that there might be a few current Division 2 and 3 clubs looking cross over to the VAFA in 2024.
"My only response to your club having been unsuccessful in being able to structure a junior program in the first instance is to persevere until your presentation has sufficient force it cannot be refused. Rather than raid other clubs, particularly other amateur clubs, particularly district ones."
To suggest we gave up in the first instance is an insult to the countless volunteers and families who contributed to our junior club program over 10 years.
Our application to the SMJFL was compelling enough for the management of the league to accept our application, only to have it rejected by the board and member clubs. 8 Junior teams in 4 years, sustained Auskick growth and countless volunteers was very compelling. We satisfied the requirements put forward to us 3 years in a row until finally the board changed the admission rules so that we could never have a club while surrounding clubs were not running at full capacity. There is no way around this, it is now a requirement for any club wanting to join the SMJFL.
Where was your outrage when this was happening to our "District" club.
Where was your outrage when Murrumbeena's under 17s players left year after year to play at De La instead of their "District" club.
How is our situation any different to DLS, we realised that we could not survive as district club without juniors or a feeder school. McKinnon Secondary is the "Primary Feeder" as you call it to the "Old McKinnon/Glen Eira Under 19s program. The fact that they are not a private school shouldn't exclude them from being able to have an Old Boys/Girls team.
I hope our current executive continue to grow this relationship to sustain the club for years to come.
To suggest we gave up in the first instance is an insult to the countless volunteers and families who contributed to our junior club program over 10 years.
Our application to the SMJFL was compelling enough for the management of the league to accept our application, only to have it rejected by the board and member clubs. 8 Junior teams in 4 years, sustained Auskick growth and countless volunteers was very compelling. We satisfied the requirements put forward to us 3 years in a row until finally the board changed the admission rules so that we could never have a club while surrounding clubs were not running at full capacity. There is no way around this, it is now a requirement for any club wanting to join the SMJFL.
Where was your outrage when this was happening to our "District" club.
Where was your outrage when Murrumbeena's under 17s players left year after year to play at De La instead of their "District" club.
How is our situation any different to DLS, we realised that we could not survive as district club without juniors or a feeder school. McKinnon Secondary is the "Primary Feeder" as you call it to the "Old McKinnon/Glen Eira Under 19s program. The fact that they are not a private school shouldn't exclude them from being able to have an Old Boys/Girls team.
I hope our current executive continue to grow this relationship to sustain the club for years to come.
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It's the way you go about it .
I will have more later when i have time
Over The Post
🐍Bless The OOBs🐍
- Nov 17, 2007
- 19,791
- 26,583
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Most of whom would need to very much clean up their acts beforehand. Just sayin'.
- Nov 2, 2006
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...........and some MORE travelling for the lower division clubs to contend with.
Chump.
Fancy a trip to Tarneit or North Sunshine? 
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
No worse than traveling to Mt MarthaFancy a trip to Tarneit or North Sunshine?
Over The Post
🐍Bless The OOBs🐍
- Nov 17, 2007
- 19,791
- 26,583
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Ophidian Old Boys
Some clown in the WRFL div2 thread suggesting Westbourne move to WRFL div3???
Tarneit to Masala ... yikes!
Didn't these players just want to all play in the same team together? My understanding is they felt a bit 'lost' in such a big club and East Malvern provided them a local alternative that allowed all of them to play a season together in the 2's.
Having watched that 2's side this year, none of these players would have challenged your 1's or 2's and would have most likely walked away from footy in 24-36 months anyway. Playing at EM offered them an opportunity as mates to have a season together.
Having watched that 2's side this year, none of these players would have challenged your 1's or 2's and would have most likely walked away from footy in 24-36 months anyway. Playing at EM offered them an opportunity as mates to have a season together.
