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VAFA General Discussion
- Thread starter Max Leader
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It’s more around TAC cup players who at the last moment get released for the weekend. We had one, and again due to volunteer shortages that week his points were not lodged. If he assumed the 6 points we would have additional time to get his points down to one. Thanks to the VAFA and the opposition club, the player got to play i the ones and was best in ground.
I’m not defending the VAFA ZS. Not by any stretch and I think the leadership and foresight from HQ has been lacking for many years. I just refute the notion that old boys clubs automatically get some sort of leg up. It’s a lazy argument that gets rolled out endlessly and without any consideration of the struggles encountered by nearly all clubs - district, school, university or cultural.
There is no question that some clubs have advantages which they exploit very well. But that has nothing to do with favours being provided by the VAFA.
I do have some ideas around rationalisation and equalisation and will populate those when I have a bit more time on my hands.
I also don't believe the notion that some clubs get a leg up. I will stay tuned for your ideas on rationalisation and equalisation.
The starting point is to restrict clubs to no more than 2 teams at all levels . What school "boy" teams are doing with "girls" teams is beyond me. 2 19's and 3rds is enough .
Agree Bedford and have supported that idea previously. Albeit it won’t be popular with some, it really only impacts on a couple of clubs. The Thirds are diabolical and needs a shakeup. Allowing flat track bullies to feed their ego against genuine third grade players is a nonsense. Will take some work that one but I have some ideas. There is scope to look at the length of the season, some creativity with overall fixturing and the make-up of the byes. Give rep football the lemonade once and for all. No one cares and it is a waste of $. Personally I'm not fussed about drinking at the footy and selling a few cans won't make a massive difference to the bottom line. But it does help so a further expansion and common sense approach to the sale of grog should be considered.
Finals are challenging as it is extremely difficult to get council run grounds in September so I have some sympathy. But a rework of season dates might mitigate some of that. I’ll save my full manifesto for another time.
Clubs come and clubs go. It is not necessarily a bad thing for clubs to leave for greener pastures, or alternatively join the VAFA as a better option to paying overs for club jumping mercenaries. All clubs find their level at a point in time. Just because you are not competing in the top grade, should not define you as a club.
This would mean St Kevin's and Xavs and Scotch (at least) dumping the women's teams and some Thirds and U19 teams. This would clearly make other VAFA clubs stronger, as there'd be a rush to join ... er? Participation is the greatest strength of the VAFA and has been for some time. There are very few clubs working to their full potential - that's OK - but don't penalise the clubs who work at it because other clubs want to shut down for a few months in the off-season.
localfootylegend23
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With you there regarding 2 teams at all levels,
Some clubs are co-ed schools, and the all boy schools have sister schools where they can recruit players come from e.g. SKOB and St Katherine's. Women's football is on the rise, VAFA have the best standard outside VFLW, just need to sort a few other things out underneath it like reserves/division sizes and who goes where
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How inappropriate would it be for a board member to be on bigfooty. Stirring up trouble, spinning harder than a top with his own agenda.
Mr Platinum
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You do realise that if this happened, only SKOB and OX would win flags in both of those divisions EVERY year.
Also the other ring to consider is that these two power clubs subsidise subs for a lot of the smaller clubs. Take their teams away and subs would sky rocket as HQ need to raise revenue.
The third thing to consider is participation, every person should be able to have a game with their mates or girlfriends.
The SKOB third under 19 team struggles to win two games per year, but crucially allows other clubs to play a full home and away season. Otherwise kids will be having a bye every third week.
Think about it before posting unacquainted comments please.
The other subject that piqued my interest was someone complaining about the points system. This is an AFL Victoria instruction, forced upon the VAFA. When originally proposed, the VAFA rejected the notion of points, only to be told by AFL Victoria that they would have all funding withdrawn if they didn’t comply.
on and off
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So have Ivanhoe and parade been moved on yet or what
lettheboysplay
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In the week when there were divisional club GFs, the main focus of the VAFA Instagram page seemed to be focused on Xavier's twos. The coverage of the women's grand finals were clouded by the appearance of 'big Shaun Kennedy' - no offence to the guy, but I don't care whether a bloke who is playing the following week's GF is eating a dim sim from the canteen. The coach of the year in the men's was a Thirds coach from Xavier - which potentially could be the easiest Thirds' job in the world...Xavier and Scotch played in four of the five GFs in the Thirds' division.
It might not be a conscious thing, but the advantages run deeper than clubs' exploiting their advantage - most clubs in Premier have more power than the central administration, so of course the VAFA has something to do with the gross inequity across the league. Also on your point that your club works hard to recruit etc - we all do. Every club works incredibly hard, particularly in increasingly trying times for clubs outside the top flight (and even in the top flight as you pointed out), but please do not equate the struggles of Haileybury and Caulfield with those of the clubs in the divisions, particularly community clubs with no feeder club. We all know the ones who are in a struggle for survival are not clubs who are connected to the APS... Give us a spell.
I've read your stuff for a long time, so I respect your thoughts, Jimmy, but there's a little bit of conflating 'everyone's struggling' and 'we can't point the finger at the administration' without considering the nuances of this struggle across the divisions and how the VAFA have sat on their hands for a long time in the face of a decades-long issue in regard to equalisation.
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I believe it will be finalised in the next week or so should all parties sign off on things.
Chump
lettheboysplay
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Maybe if some of those players floundering in the lower divs of the 19s and Thirds at these powerhouse clubs actually put their neck on the line and went to divisional clubs, many of whom have rich histories and excellent club cultures, we wouldn't have to worry about these clubs subsidising our subs... (Sorry, I know I should just be saying 'THANK YOU TO OUR ELITE PRIVATE SCHOOL OVERLORDS!')
This is the basic tenet of the envious: if the VAFA restricted teams, these extra players would come to us. It is poppycock. (As was the solution once suggested by the president of a club with a 'rich history' and 'excellent club culture' to establish a draft.)
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In some circumstances they would join other clubs in the local area if they didn't have multiple teams at larger clubs available. History at the club I'm a member of (Ivanhoe) is proof of it. When I was playing in the 90's over 60% of the players - who went to local private schools played for us as they were not good enough to play in higher grades. Now we have around 10% as many are playing in the multiple Thirds teams or in multiple 19's. Over 90% of our two x Colts junior teams went to private schools in our area in season 2023.
Whilst I would not want to lose ANY players if I was in their position - and I get that 100% - to suggest that there is no impact in the powerful clubs having multiple teams is 'popycock'.
It's no surprise that very large junior clubs like Kew, Fitzroy and Ivanhoe have not been able to get 19's up and going recently / at the same time Xavier had 4 x 19's and a gazillion Thirds.
Again - I say well done to Xav's for making it happen - but if the VAFA placed a limit on it then 'maybe' the equalisation and equity opportunity might grow rather than diminish as it is now.
My club will now move competitions as they NEED to explore new ways to try and recruit and retain players. It's just an unfortunate by-product of powerful clubs having an unrestricted number of teams. Sad, but true.
Chump
Robin Hood is a fictional character.In some circumstances they would join other clubs in the local area if they didn't have multiple teams at larger clubs available. History at the club I'm a member of (Ivanhoe) is proof of it. When I was playing in the 90's over 60% of the players - who went to local private schools played for us as they were not good enough to play in higher grades. Now we have around 10% as many are playing in the multiple Thirds teams or in multiple 19's. Over 90% of our two x Colts junior teams went to private schools in our area in season 2023.
Whilst I would not want to lose ANY players if I was in their position - and I get that 100% - to suggest that there is no impact in the powerful clubs having multiple teams is 'popycock'.
It's no surprise that very large junior clubs like Kew, Fitzroy and Ivanhoe have not been able to get 19's up and going recently / at the same time Xavier had 4 x 19's and a gazillion Thirds.
Again - I say well done to Xav's for making it happen - but if the VAFA placed a limit on it then 'maybe' the equalisation and equity opportunity might grow rather than diminish as it is now.
My club will now move competitions as they NEED to explore new ways to try and recruit and retain players. It's just an unfortunate by-product of powerful clubs having an unrestricted number of teams. Sad, but true.
Chump
Mr Platinum
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Ivanhoe being in D Grade has nothing to do with any other club, other than Ivanhoe. The fact that the current administration saw fit to take their bat and ball and bail to another competition also has nothing to do with anyone other than Ivanhoe.In some circumstances they would join other clubs in the local area if they didn't have multiple teams at larger clubs available. History at the club I'm a member of (Ivanhoe) is proof of it. When I was playing in the 90's over 60% of the players - who went to local private schools played for us as they were not good enough to play in higher grades. Now we have around 10% as many are playing in the multiple Thirds teams or in multiple 19's. Over 90% of our two x Colts junior teams went to private schools in our area in season 2023.
Whilst I would not want to lose ANY players if I was in their position - and I get that 100% - to suggest that there is no impact in the powerful clubs having multiple teams is 'popycock'.
It's no surprise that very large junior clubs like Kew, Fitzroy and Ivanhoe have not been able to get 19's up and going recently / at the same time Xavier had 4 x 19's and a gazillion Thirds.
Again - I say well done to Xav's for making it happen - but if the VAFA placed a limit on it then 'maybe' the equalisation and equity opportunity might grow rather than diminish as it is now.
My club will now move competitions as they NEED to explore new ways to try and recruit and retain players. It's just an unfortunate by-product of powerful clubs having an unrestricted number of teams. Sad, but true.
Chump
Good luck with your new reality, I hope it goes well for you.
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Yes Mr P you always know what's best and happening at every other club - you really are the voice of reason and understanding. Bless you my friend.
I have been speaking to my therapist about how I will find a way to deal the the impending separation anxiety that is no doubt coming my way when I don't have you to turn too on this forum for your respected wisdom. She has advised watching a few episodes of Big Brother should help as it's around about as sensible as some of the dribble you trot out here.
Miss you already ..... not
Chump
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No issues with clubs having extra sides but don't make it easy for them.
I.e. if you are strong enough to have a thirds and a fourths then they should be required to play in the highest vacant thirds division- not the one the "vafa feels they will be competitive in"
This year AJAX introduced a fourths side midway through the year.
That side was placed in div 4 thirds despite their thirds sitting in div 2 thirds.
AJAX won the div 4 thirds flag when by rights they should have been in div 3.
Incidentally they played against Old Scotch 4ths (whose thirds play in premier) who would have been suited to any of the three vacant divisions above them! (Old scotch were dominant prior to regrading but somehow escaped going up)
Let the teams have their 4ths, 5ths and 6ths but don't hand them finals appearances and flags!
I.e. if you are strong enough to have a thirds and a fourths then they should be required to play in the highest vacant thirds division- not the one the "vafa feels they will be competitive in"
This year AJAX introduced a fourths side midway through the year.
That side was placed in div 4 thirds despite their thirds sitting in div 2 thirds.
AJAX won the div 4 thirds flag when by rights they should have been in div 3.
Incidentally they played against Old Scotch 4ths (whose thirds play in premier) who would have been suited to any of the three vacant divisions above them! (Old scotch were dominant prior to regrading but somehow escaped going up)
Let the teams have their 4ths, 5ths and 6ths but don't hand them finals appearances and flags!
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Makes sense Jimmy and agree some of the grading looks to have not quite got it correct - on reflection.
Just for the record - again - I'm not saying clubs should not have as many teams as they can facilitate. Good luck to them and well played. I'm just suggesting their has been a 'butterfly effect' on some other clubs as a byproduct of it happening over the past 20 years. As such those clubs need to look at other ways to survive in the 'new' environment.
Chump
Yep agree with you 100%.Makes sense Jimmy and agree some of the grading looks to have not quite got it correct - on reflection.
Just for the record - again - I'm not saying clubs should not have as many teams as they can facilitate. Good luck to them and well played. I'm just suggesting their has been a 'butterfly effect' on some other clubs as a byproduct of it happening over the past 20 years. As such those clubs need to look at other ways to survive in the 'new' environment.
Chump
The point I'm labouring is we're making it easier for strong clubs to facilitate multiple teams at the expense of teams with just 1 thirds side.
Would these 4ths and 5ths players stick around if they weren't beating up on weaker 3rds sides? I don't think so and those players would go elsewhere. (E.g. some of those ajax 4ths players were going to join our club prior to them getting the side up)
(This is also true of u19s and u23s- which my club has benefited from)
Such a shame that someone would make some sense. Such a good post.
Had a recent conversation with a couple of boys that play at Xavs in their 3rds side - not sure which one it is. Asked them why they don't go to a divisional side and try and play in the seniors. Answer was simple - they want to play with their mates and play for Old Xavs. Asked them what they would do if the VAFA limited how many 3rds side they could have - answer - they wouldn't play.
Thinking back to when my old club entered the ammos in F Grade - which would be now D3. I think there was one G grade (now 3rds) comp and 3 u/19s. Now, G Grade is Div 4, there are 5 3rds grades and 5 u/19's. Not to mention the womens.
The competition has grown significantly - so the VAFA must be doing something right.
More kids playing football is a great thing.
I was on the side of limiting the amount of teams but I now think that all it will do is lose kids to footy.
But, on the other hand, the grading must be fixed. If Xavs and Scotch have the 6 best teams then they all need to be in the one division - pretty simple one would think.
Yep- I don't think many of us think clubs should be limited in sides.
That said it's a lot easier to get a social side up when you know you're going to win most weeks.
Are you retiring Jimmy
