Review Vent/Autopsy Thread. Here for all your post match needs.

[Unnamed1]

Re: blaming Macca 2

Picked a good week to be out of the country!

Picked a shocker to return in my case..

 

[Chicago1]

I presume most of you are too young to remember these infamous years:

1982 - W3 L19
1981 - W2 L20
1980 - W5 L17


But how about these?

2004 - W5 L17
2003 - W3 D1 L18


We survived. The world went on.


We live in hope.

 

[inyourfacedunk]

One of the things that really annoys me about Gia is that he can't keep his feet, he is always falling over

This is the most frustrating part of his game for me.
I do think he still has a lot to offer the team and wont be calling to drop him any time soon, but the way he plays to get marks one on one has been exposed. It was exposed about half way through last season and continues to be exploited.

He likes to play behind the defender and then nudge them out while taking a falling mark. All the defender needs to do is deflect the ball only a little for Gia to miss it completely while still falling back on his arse. The defender is then free to simply run onto the ball and clear it.

I suppose it doesn't help that the delivery into the forward line isn't up to par for leading players, but I'm sure he has a few other tricks he can try other than the one that has been exposed over and over now.


Regardless, I'm ok with losing valiantly this year. Like the way they fought against Adelaide. Games like that aren't too bad because you can at least see that the players are focused on moving forward, but performances like last nights are just horrible.

If they can't put Melbourne and GWS away convincingly in the next two weeks, not only will the fans give up, but the players will probably start to lose focus on the bigger picture as well.

 

[tonydean]

There were a lot of footy terms you could use for what was missing last night, but the one that was forefront in my mind was COMPOSURE. We had no composure at all. 90% of the time we had the ball, we just panicked and got rid of it like we were under extreme pressure, even when no one was near us.

This has been a problem for a while. Why do the players panic so much? Are they taking speed down there or something? Joke of course! lol

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I presume most of you are too young to remember these infamous years:

1982 - W3 L19
1981 - W2 L20
1980 - W5 L17


But how about these?

2004 - W5 L17
2003 - W3 D1 L18


We survived. The world went on.


We live in hope.

Yep, and we got a priority draft pick for winning only 4 games or less in 2004, but coincidence, that has now been scrapped by the AFL

Ah the luck of the bulldogs, father son rules changed as we came to draft Ace, Libba and Wallis, after Geelong drafted Ablett jnr with their last pick

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I had a listen to Maccas media interview after the game, and I have to say, there was some things I liked. One thing I never liked the way Rocket would publicly blast a player, ie Lake. Macca does not do this, if he does, it is behind closed doors where it should be.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video audio/tabid/8663/contentid/440152/default.aspx

 

[tonydean]

I had a listen to Maccas media interview after the game, and I have to say, there was some things I liked. One thing I never liked the way Rocket would publicly blast a player, ie Lake. Macca does not do this, if he does, it is behind closed doors where it should be.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video audio/tabid/8663/contentid/440152/default.aspx

Yes, that point is good and fair enough, but I didn't like the way he was talking like he's not got make many changes, if any at all.

If this bloke wants to get us to play more like Geelong, I hope he has the balls to make harsh changes to the list at years end.
Look at Adelaide 2 years ago, they delisted 8 or 10 players, and now have a pretty solid outfit.

 

[minters]

Yep, and we got a priority draft pick for winning only 4 games or less in 2004, but coincidence, that has now been scrapped by the AFL

Ah the luck of the bulldogs, father son rules changed as we came to draft Ace, Libba and Wallis, after Geelong drafted Ablett jnr with their last pick

Yeah, and chances are that a club will nominate a first round pick for Hunter, making us use one of our prized first round picks in this years 'strong' draft on him..... Given what you've mentioned above and the fact that the AFL changed the father / son games played criteria from 50 to 100, (Reid Brothers), once again our "pathetic history" of luck, both on and off the field, doesn't seem to let up.....

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Yes, that point is good and fair enough, but I didn't like the way he was talking like he's not got make many changes, if any at all.

If this bloke wants to get us to play more like Geelong, I hope he has the balls to make harsh changes to the list at years end.
Look at Adelaide 2 years ago, they delisted 8 or 10 players, and now have a pretty solid outfit.

I think he is not going to talk about delistings in round 3, but I would certainly hope and expect that all players are on notice - perform to the best of your ability or there is the door. With a superdraft looming, we need to ensure that we only keep those who will take us up the ladder.

 

[Ricky_Lake]

This is the most frustrating part of his game for me.
I do think he still has a lot to offer the team and wont be calling to drop him any time soon, but the way he plays to get marks one on one has been exposed. It was exposed about half way through last season and continues to be exploited.

He likes to play behind the defender and then nudge them out while taking a falling mark. All the defender needs to do is deflect the ball only a little for Gia to miss it completely while still falling back on his arse. The defender is then free to simply run onto the ball and clear it.

I suppose it doesn't help that the delivery into the forward line isn't up to par for leading players, but I'm sure he has a few other tricks he can try other than the one that has been exposed over and over now.


Regardless, I'm ok with losing valiantly this year. Like the way they fought against Adelaide. Games like that aren't too bad because you can at least see that the players are focused on moving forward, but performances like last nights are just horrible.

If they can't put Melbourne and GWS away convincingly in the next two weeks, not only will the fans give up, but the players will probably start to lose focus on the bigger picture as well.

I have same frustration week in week out, GIA if you read this WEAR SOME F***ING BOOTS WITH LONG STOPS, STOP TRYING TO LOOK PRETTY. Also stop trying to take chest marks from behind the defender, while im at it tell higgins to stop trying to direct traffic and have a crack or he should play centre half bench.
To make things worse my mate who drove myself and my 2 kids in left and went home at half way thru the third qtr. FFS who does that (be different if we barracked for different teams) luckily he got to millers road and turned around and came and got us. NOT A MEMORABLE NIGHT

 

[Zephiisdaman]

For what it's worth: I don't think we will beat Melbourne next week.
That doesn't really bother me as long as we show improvement in key areas, first of all as other posters have acknowledged phase out players that are not buying into the rebuilding, are hampering the progress of promising young players or who have had too many chances.

I will name them.
Cross - time is up, he is keeping a kid out of the team. Losses are inevitable but we need to look for 2014 as the year we contend again.
Grant - high draft pick, abject failure, will not improve.
Sherman- a few want him in the team, but a wasted trade.
Roughead- time for him to stand up.
Cordy- could be a reasonable player, but like Grant a wasted high draft pick. We should Gve called St Kildas bluff.
Williams- wasted high draft pick, was not only speculative but an injured speculative. Alarm bells should have been ringing.
Gia- has dropped away alarmingly, probably because no key forwards to take the load. Must lift to prolong career
Cooney- times up, not up to your paycheck weight

There are many others that all need to improve. But to have a go at all is counter productive.

We have a good leader in Boyd
Griffen, Dahl, Jones, Picken, are good players.
Unless we draft and trade smartly we are going to languish for long periods.

Robbie Warnock should be seriously targeted, the guy can genuinely ruck. He will be 3rd banana at Carlton. Our rucks are embarrassingly thin and he would slot in nicely.

If the performances and effort don't improve the consequences are dire as members will drop off. Then bad old in debt days again.

 

[cammo78]

I agree with most of what you've said.

Cordy, however, was viewed as a top-three pick in that draft by a number of clubs and getting him at 13 was a bargain.

I have confidence he'll come good.

 

[Fossie 32]

Plus Campbell looks a goer

 

[Igloo]

For what it's worth: I don't think we will beat Melbourne next week.
That doesn't really bother me as long as we show improvement in key areas, first of all as other posters have acknowledged phase out players that are not buying into the rebuilding, are hampering the progress of promising young players or who have had too many chances.

I will name them.
Cross - time is up, he is keeping a kid out of the team. Losses are inevitable but we need to look for 2014 as the year we contend again.
Probably agree. Wallis should be playing ahead of him
Grant - high draft pick, abject failure, will not improve.
Agree. The only Bulldogs player I don't like. Worst attitude on field, most of the time.
Sherman- a few want him in the team, but a wasted trade.
Disagree. Hasn't played this year, but last year, up until the racial stuff, he was playing very good football, and was leading the goal kicking at one point. Probably not worth our compo pick we used, but not a wasted trade.
Roughead- time for him to stand up.
Yep. But he is still only a young ruckman. They take time, as we all know. So we can't crack it if it doesn't happen fast. The ability is there, though.
Cordy- could be a reasonable player, but like Grant a wasted high draft pick. We should Gve called St Kildas bluff.
Disagree completely. He was a twig when he arrived at the club, so had no chance of making any impact for a few years, and like Roughead is still only young. You have to give them time, and time is exactly what we have now we are going to be at the bottom end of the ladder for a bit.
Williams- wasted high draft pick, was not only speculative but an injured speculative. Alarm bells should have been ringing.
Disagree. Tommy is a good player when not injured. Gets a very unfair wrap around here. As has been pointed out either here or another thread, wasn't much quality in his draft after where we took him anyway.
Gia- has dropped away alarmingly, probably because no key forwards to take the load. Must lift to prolong career
Lead our goal kicking last year, kicked a career high number of goals. How the hell is that dropping away alarmingly? 3 games into this year, still WAY too early to make any sort of call about dropping away.
Cooney- times up, not up to your paycheck weight
Wont ever be what he was, but can still make an impact. Should be on a reduced wage for his next contract though.

There are many others that all need to improve. But to have a go at all is counter productive.

We have a good leader in Boyd
Griffen, Dahl, Jones, Picken, are good players.
Unless we draft and trade smartly we are going to languish for long periods.

Robbie Warnock should be seriously targeted, the guy can genuinely ruck. He will be 3rd banana at Carlton. Our rucks are embarrassingly thin and he would slot in nicely.

If the performances and effort don't improve the consequences are dire as members will drop off. Then bad old in debt days again.

My answers in bold.

I think we have to remember that we have played a couple of tough sides so far this year. WC and Adelaide were the in form teams leading in to the season. Both undefeated so far.
Saints was just shambles, though.

We are rebuilding, as we all know. It had to come around sooner or later. Luckily we are doing it at the right time, with a superdraft coming up.
I don't think we will be down as long as some people think. We hae some genuinely good prospects who haven't played a lot yet.

I have no doubt we will beat Melbourne next week, and we will beat them well.

 

[AJARWA]

Some good and fair comments made so far so won’t try to double up here.
Defence:
Markovic – continues to improve even though he’s playing out of position at CHB, although I acknowledge we need him there.
Lake – getting better. His left hook was the result of three st Kilda players taking him over the boundary line and the frustration that not one team mate came to lay a bump or lend a hand, no team spirit whatsoever.
Hargrave – not sure why he was playing forward in the 2nd quarter and really struggles when on the oppositions third tall forward. Played much better in 2009 and 2010 when he was the fourth tall playing small, after Morris, Lake and Williams. I’d like to see Austin or other come in soon to play third tall, drop one of Addison or Wood (no creativity, continually kick sideways or turn the ball over) and release Hargrave to play small and run off half back with Murphy. Without Howard, Murph is our only creative small down there at the moment.
Mid :
Cross – played ok on Goddard I thought but yep, his time is coming to an end. We really need Wallis in there somehow learning from Cross, to take that position at season’s end. Perhaps Smith could come out this week for Wallis and rotate these two throughout the season to get games into both of them. I think Libba should stay in the 22.
Cooney – getting better also but needs harder bodies in there to lend a hand and lay a bump or sheppard. Have my fingers crossed that Sherman and Tutt will settle in by mid season so our spread from the stoppages improves. We’re relying too heavily on Griffen and Cooney for this, others are too slow. The 2012 draft couldn’t come sooner for the Dogs.
Forward:
Where to start? Gia and Higgins fail time and time again to stand up when the team needs against good teams. How they’re part of the leadership group astounds me. Surely leadership is more than training well and telling young guys what they should be doing, but actually showing some balls on the field and leading with action. Not once last night can I remember either of them laying a grinding tackle or giving a hard bump. Higgins has had opportunities over the past 3 weeks to kick goals at crucial times (to at least stem the bleeding) and failed each time. I’ve had a gut full of this pretender. It’s time he spent 4 weeks at Willi to show he actually wants to play AFL let alone be a leader of our football club.
Grant - I thought he gave a good contest early on when the game was still up for grabs. Second highest number of tackles and chased hard. Considering the poor entry into the forward line, I think he's doing just as much as Jones is at the moment, and shows more than Higgins and Gia. Leave him there and drop some expectations on this kid, he's only played 40 games and most were with Hall next to him.
Dahl – what a star. Shame no one has the speed or creativity to support this guy when he turns or breaks lines at HF. My fingers are crossed for Sherman, Ves or Dickson to step up soon and lend this guy a hand.
DJ – showed enough to warrant at least a full game if not 3 or 4 to really show if he’s got the talent to hold a spot in this 22 long term. There are not enough spots for all of DJ, Ves, Sherman and Dickson to be playing each week. This year will reveal a lot about these four. I think we only need two long term.
Cordy – I really liked his last quarter. Continually presented, bumped bodies and gave a contest. What more can you ask of a 3 or 4 gamer. Surely he is the future and should be played in 3 to 4 game stints this year, while rotating with Roughead and Campbell (if Campbell can be elevated). Despite Minson’s efforts, these three are actually footballers and will be the future Ruck/Forward combination in 3 to 4 years. So let’s keep getting games in to all of them throughout 2012.
Similar to the new 2012 draft thread – is it worth us starting a ‘future team’ type thread that tracks the development of our young guys throughout the year in a way that is a bit more systematic than comments in randmo threads? I’m new to this so not sure how it can be done or if you guys/the Mods think it’s a good idea? Being able to track development of our future might just give us a thread to keep us positive through what’s going to be a tough year.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

I agree with most of what you've said.

Cordy, however, was viewed as a top-three pick in that draft by a number of clubs and getting him at 13 was a bargain.

I have confidence he'll come good.

Only St Kilda rated Cordy high, they were the direct draft pick after us. I am happy to come back and revisit my call on him. But he has been at the club a while now and to have his 4th game just played doesn't gel with me at all. He was recruited with bad shoulders, skinny frame and hadn't really played TAC so where the wraps were coming from is anyone's guess.
He has definitely built up and now has a nice sized body. So there are no excuses. I am thinking he may end up a Cam White type. Hope my pessimism and judgement is way off.
Ps I am generally a reasonable judge

 

[crownie]

I agree with most of what you've said.

Cordy, however, was viewed as a top-three pick in that draft by a number of clubs and getting him at 13 was a bargain.

I have confidence he'll come good.

looked better as the game went on.

just have to keep pumping games into him, its well acknowledge around the league that it takes the big boys longer to develop.

 

[CrozaN]

Melbourne to get their first win next week.

 

[LondonBulldog]

I've seen cordy a lot, unfortunately I don't believe he will make it as well.

Shoulder are too small not strong enough for a modern day big tall strong forward. At VFL level he is nice when he gets the ball, smart good disposal but not strong enough in the ruck or as a forward.

Love him to prove me wrong but I see more in Campbell and Hill.

I also want JJ in, for me the best young kid we have.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

It's been 24 hours now, and a bit of a cooler perspective on the game. Yes, it was atrocious, but the week before we played a good game against Adelaide at AAMI, who then served it up to Hawthorn today.

So, we had a bad game this week, I don't think we will next week - I really expect us to beat Melbourne next week.

 

[djp57]

The good thing about these forums is if you don't post straight away, give yourself 24 hours and then post when the anger and disappointment from a bad night at the Docklands wears off. Now to Melbourne next week, we should beat them, but who knows. If anyone had of watched Boydy on Channel 7 this morning, it appears to me that last night's loss didn't hurt one little bit. Just going through the motions. I was hoping for our Captain to vent his spleen just a little and give us some hope for next week, all we got was some suggestions that Macca is trying to teach us all how to play the Macca way! So far the Macca way isn't looking too good. But then again, when you don't have the cattle on the paddock it is hard to produce top results. We are in for one very long year, not expecting to climb much higher than we currently are, so buckle up everyone and enjoy the ride. Yep there will be players that will drop off, big names that will struggle but there will be kids that will be our future. The club is not at the crossroads, it is not in crisis, it is in re-build, and this re-build will take a few years, yeah I know it is a pain, but I think Macca will be alright in the end, as long as the Club has the balls to support him. In a fortnight, we will be 2 wins and 3 losses and our percentage will pick up. Like everyone else was very annoyed about the way we played last night, it was disgraceful, but full credit to StKilda, they were pretty good as well. We all know that Lake will go, but amazing how the media ignored Riewoldt's subtle kick on Boyd in the goal square last night. Amazing how Golden Boy gets away with this, the man is most protected by the AFL.

 

[crownie]

but amazing how the media ignored Riewoldt's subtle kick on Boyd in the goal square last night. Amazing how Golden Boy gets away with this, the man is most protected by the AFL.

karma in sport (if there really is such a thing) came to Reiwoldt when it has mattered most and thats in the grand finals.

win or loss im just glad we dont have a captain who behaves like that considering he himself wasnt having a great game like Kosi who also decided to mock a few of our young players after a few of there mistakes.

 

[dogwatch]

Re: blaming Macca 2

Why should the blaming Macca thread have been closed

There was someone one liners but most of it was constructive criticism

This is a footy site that people can vent off their thoughts you mods shouldnt close a thread unless its defaming, rude ,or not in the best intrest for people to read

Off to Burma maybe Mods

I often disagree with Fred's posts, enjoyable though they may be.

With this one, however, I'm in full agreement.

This should be a forum for independent comment even if some of those comments turn out to be rash, stupid or ill-informed. Fair enough to tick off individuals for defamatory comments but if the mods crack down heavy-handedly on whole threads this board will end up being a knitting circle with no spice or divergent opinion whatsoever. We will end up losing many of the more interesting and entertaining posters.

Censorship and locked threads should be used only as a last resort, not as a routine means of moderation. Sure, the board gets untidy for about 24 hours after a game - especially a nasty loss - but it quickly finds its own level.

Softly, softly, mods.

 

[Testekill]

Re: blaming Macca 2

I often disagree with Fred's posts, enjoyable though they may be.

With this one, however, I'm in full agreement.

This should be a forum for independent comment even if some of those comments turn out to be rash, stupid or ill-informed. Fair enough to tick off individuals for defamatory comments but if the mods crack down heavy-handedly on whole threads this board will end up being a knitting circle with no spice or divergent opinion whatsoever. We will end up losing many of the more interesting and entertaining posters.

Censorship and locked threads should be used only as a last resort, not as a routine means of moderation. Sure, the board gets untidy for about 24 hours after a game - especially a nasty loss - but it quickly finds its own level.

Softly, softly, mods.

And comparing mods that are trying to keep the peace to the Burmese Regime which caused millions of deaths is a great way to express yourself. Because that's as close to Godwins Law as you can get without calling them a Nazi or comparing them to Hitler.

Not to mention the fact that the first Blame Macca thread devolved into attacks against other posters.

 

[dogwatch]

Re: blaming Macca 2

OK I agree his Burma comment was in poor taste but you shouldn't take it literally. It was just a bit of hyperbole (= intentionally over the top statement to create an effect).

I appreciate what the mods do for the board and the time and effort you put in. But it doesn't mean you should be free from constructive criticism.