Vince McMahon steps down from TKO amid allegations

[Nicho50]

They are part of the filings. They have supporting materials that are texts sent by Vince to his victim.

Do you think Vince was lying to her about Brock's interest? Sounds like Brock will be very unhappy with his former employer then.

You seem in massive denial about what happened to this person, who is just one of many that Vince has had to offer pay outs and NDAs to.

There's massive coverups that have happened here.

I'm shocked by those who just want to go back to chanting "thank you Vince".

Who wants to go back to Vince?
Don’t think anyone here does.

You have evidence that Brock sent anything ? You’re basing it off a text that might not even be legit? Has it been proven that Brock did anything.

I am trying to say innocent until proven guilty for both Brock and Jericho.

Not talking about Vince at all, he clearly paid hush money and deserves everything he gets. What if the stuff about Brock or any other people is fabricated though?

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

Great moderating, you've caved to the mark flogs who were sooking about Vince McMahon being discussed in a WWE thread, and now you've empowered them to commence the tribalist, victim blaming bullshit.

Excellent mod work (RossFC ?), you also made a mess of the thread by deleting some of the really reasonable content and leaving some of the worst of the bullshit

There’s a reason most of the posts deleted were yours.

Your condescending superiority complex based off your self righteous moral compass was derailing the thread. Not to mention taking personal insults at every second poster

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

They are part of the filings. They have supporting materials that are texts sent by Vince to his victim.

Do you think Vince was lying to her about Brock's interest? Sounds like Brock will be very unhappy with his former employer then.

You seem in massive denial about what happened to this person, who is just one of many that Vince has had to offer pay outs and NDAs to.

There's massive coverups that have happened here.

I'm shocked by those who just want to go back to chanting "thank you Vince".

They never mention Brocks name in the supporting materials at all. Thats just a guess by the wrestling media

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

I'm shocked by those who just want to go back to chanting "thank you Vince".

You mention not the place for tribalism, yet drop the above line at the end of your post.

Who exactly is wanting to go back to chanting thank you Vince? Who hasn’t been appalled by the accusations?

 

[Mostyn]

I don't know where you copypasted this essay from but I don't have time to read it sorry.
Can you summarise please?

Can I summarise? Are you serious?

I did a simple google search - not as simple as you looking up a dictionary definition like.youre Lionel Hutz, but still pretty simple

I gave you clear information that explains the impact of grooming in adult relationships. I'm not going to dumb it down even further to help you understand. Google it yourself if you feel ignorant on it. Or don't, whatever.

 

[Toump Ass]

Can I summarise? Are you serious?

I did a simple google search - not as simple as you looking up a dictionary definition like.youre Lionel Hutz, but still pretty simple

I gave you clear information that explains the impact of grooming in adult relationships. I'm not going to dumb it down even further to help you understand. Google it yourself if you feel ignorant on it. Or don't, whatever.

I mean, we're literally arguing what grooming is.

You know what a dictionary is right?

Edit: I do like that you had to google it yourself though, very clever

 

[Mostyn]

You mention not the place for tribalism, yet drop the above line at the end of your post.

Who exactly is wanting to go back to chanting thank you Vince? Who hasn’t been appalled by the accusations?

I think those most clearly defending Vince are those saying the victim should have just walked away and prevented it.

The Thank You Vince chants were choreographed at a live event by the person supposedly leading the investigation into his sexual assault.

There's no tribalism in pointing out how disgusting that was, or how it screams of people just wanting to turn a blind eye to things. Like anyone in this thread wanting to victim blame.

 

[Mostyn]

I mean, we're literally arguing what grooming is.

You know what a dictionary is right?

Edit: I do like that you had to google it yourself though, very clever

We're arguing whether adult grooming exists.

Anyway, feel free to read what I posted or not.

 

[Toump Ass]

We're arguing whether adult grooming exists.

I'm gonna say no.

At least not when the person who is being "groomed" is getting a 200,000k salary and a BMW.

 

[mickelboy182]

I'm gonna say no.

At least not when the person who is being "groomed" is getting a 200,000k salary and a BMW.

This is exactly the attitude that empowers people like Vince. Gross.

 

[Gak Attack]

I'm gonna say no.

At least not when the person who is being "groomed" is getting a 200,000k salary and a BMW.

JFC. What is wrong with people.

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

I'm gonna say no.

At least not when the person who is being "groomed" is getting a 200,000k salary and a BMW.

I’m not sure a persons salary and work allowances exempt them from being the victim of crime.

 

[Toump Ass]

This is exactly the attitude that empowers people like Vince.

I actually think it's money that empowers people like Vince.

 

[Mostyn]

I'm gonna say no.

At least not when the person who is being "groomed" is getting a 200,000k salary and a BMW.

I don't think we're going to find common ground on this.

I don't think that what she got paid is in any way relevant.

It doesn't mean she wasn't coerced into a sexual relationship by her employer, with whom there is a massive power imbalance.

It doesn't mean that she wasn't assaulted, or r*ped, or trafficked, or the victim of revenge pr0n - any more than wearing slinky clothes means someone wasn't r*ped.

It's completely irrelevant. The only thing that's relevant is what Vince McMahon did to her, and what he could have done to others.

 

[nobbyiscool]

I'm gonna say no.

At least not when the person who is being "groomed" is getting a 200,000k salary and a BMW.

2024 and we still have uneducated mouth breathers arguing that women are responsible for preventing their own sexual assault.

I don't know what websites you're visiting that make you think this is an acceptable view to spread online, but you need to stop.

 

[Nicho50]

Vince the scumbag aside for a second can anyone actually give me evidence Brock did anything wrong or is it based purely off a name suggested or mentioned in a text message that isn’t verified?

As I said innocent until proven guilty same as Jericho situation I don’t know how others here can try and say otherwise. Don’t know how much clearer I can be if he gets proven guilty of anything than yep throw the book at him and rightly so. It’s not defending WWE or trying to make excuses for them or him. It’s a basic right people have regardless of where they work that has nothing to do with it.

 

[mickelboy182]

Vince the scumbag aside for a second can anyone actually give me evidence Brock did anything wrong or is it based purely off a name suggested or mentioned in a text message that isn’t verified?

As I said innocent until proven guilty same as Jericho situation I don’t know how others here can try and say otherwise. Don’t know how much clearer I can be if he gets proven guilty of anything than yep throw the book at him and rightly so. It’s not defending WWE or trying to make excuses for them or him. It’s a basic right people have regardless of where they work that has nothing to do with it.

I mean, it is all alleged (as is everything with Vince) at this stage, however WSJ published Lesnar's name and has presumably seen the texts. It is absolutely nothing like the Jericho allegations in either substance or style.

You are right in that he is innocent until proven guilty, you just lose all credibility when using an extremely loose whataboutism.

 

[Mostyn]

I mean, it is all alleged (as is everything with Vince) at this stage, however WSJ published Lesnar's name and has presumably seen the texts. It is absolutely nothing like the Jericho allegations in either substance or style.

You are right in that he is innocent until proven guilty, you just lose all credibility when using an extremely loose whataboutism.

So, here's a direct extract from court filings.

 

[BEEG]

These text do they show any replies interaction from her?

 

[Nugett]

Reckon it makes a bit more sense now why Stephanie first resigned then resigned again when Vince came back ..

Obviously knew what he’d done and couldn’t stand for it

Rumours are circulating that is why Shane initially left. As he found out what his father was doing. Maybe there was a secret lock box after all?

 

[Nugett]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Grant is 43 according to some reports? Does that mean these acts were happening when she was in her 30's?!? Late 30's even?

I can see how grooming works when there's a very clear power dynamic (ie: high school teacher/ student), but a grown woman in her 30's. Yeah I dunno.

Edit: There's a point surely where you gotta have some responsibility for your own life.

From the reports, she had been looking after her sick parents that just recently died. That is a major traumatic event, for most people. So that would make her vulnerable especially for a predator.

It’s easy to judge, when you haven’t been in a similar situation.

 

[Nugett]

As I understand it, that was her parents place and she was facing eviction.

I don't think you understand how desperate it would be to be bankrupt and unemployed in the USA, with close to zero safety nets and health insurance being provided through employers.

I'm also not sure you understand what coercion is.

(Warning - includes case details)

He offered a desperate woman a job, then placed her in a position where her job relied on her having sex with her employer. He offered her to other executive staff. He offered her as a sexual object to Lesnar to get him to sign a contract. He showed sexual videos he took of her to other staff. He role played pretending to be Brock Lesnar and used violence on her during sex. He and Johnny Ace had sex with her after she said no, saying ''no means yes".

FFS, he had sex with her - a junior staff member that relied on him for her livelihood - with a dildo that (by all reports) Vince named after Kofi Kingston.

I don't think blaming the victim of this for not preventing it is the right thing to do.

The recent allegations makes me wonder about Vince’s and pritchard’s involvement with Ashley Massaro. They covered up the details in Kuwait, persuaded her into helping them keep things quiet for a while.

With the recent allegations was he the instigator or a participant in her ordeal? Or was he just trying to protect his business or both himself and the business, by wanting it kept quiet.

It also gives Rita Chatterworth a lot of credibility with her allegations against Vince back in the 80’s.

 

[Nugett]

I haven't been defending Vince or engaged in any victim blaming - I requested the thread have it's own thread. I actually was critical of Triple H at the presser.

Not sure how the discussion having it's own thread in anyway empowers tribalism or victim blaming.

Approach isn't any different to any other thread on BigFooty. The thread is labelled WWE TV. These issues are happening outside of what is happening on TV.

If anything, having its own thread is bringing more light to it.

Great moderating, you've caved to the mark flogs who were sooking about Vince McMahon being discussed in a WWE thread, and now you've empowered them to commence the tribalist, victim blaming bullshit.

Excellent mod work (RossFC ?), you also made a mess of the thread by deleting some of the really reasonable content and leaving some of the worst of the bullshit

Have you read the thread since it was moved into its own? The evidence of it leading to tribalism and victim blaming is right here in front of your face.

It probably did need its own thread as it is a big subject matter that should be discussed. This thread shouldn’t be about tribalism, because it is more of a social issue, rather than a what’s happening kind of thing in both the AEW and WWE threads. It would derail both of them.

The accusations against McMahon, not the WWE are on the same level as Harvey Weinstein, Rolf Harris, Bill Crosby, Robert Hughes, Alison Mack, Gary Glitter, Kevin Spacey ect.

Unfortunately people are going to blame the victims, as they look for reasons; whether it be admiration, justification, or what ever else. I heard Paul London speak on the Rene Dupree show, where he made a very good point and I’ll paraphrase “We are not in a position to judge until we have been through her ordeal” which is very true.

So for those that are victim blaming it is just showing at how ignorant they truly are. I remember people blaming Sarah Monohan when she first made the accusations against Robert Hughes. I also remember both Ben Oxenford and Simione Buchane when they both came out in support for Sarah, were also criticised for not speaking out sooner, despite both of them saying they were threatened of their careers if they spoke out against it, by the producers of the show. They have been exonerated and praised for their bravery since then, while Robert Hughes is in prison, where he belongs.

I didn’t mean to go on a little rant, but this does deserve its own thread, ignorant, biased, diplomatic views and all. it’s not an AEW vs WWE pissing contest thread, but one of social importance, based around the accusations of a narcissistic wrestling promoter.

 

[The Casey Cat]

The recent allegations makes me wonder about Vince’s and pritchard’s involvement with Ashley Massaro. They covered up the details in Kuwait, persuaded her into helping them keep things quiet for a while.

The most recent Dutch Mantell podcast goes into some of this. Literally chilling to listen to for me when speaking about this era and the divas and their treatment from Vince and JL and how they would behave after 'meetings'.



For those who want to specifically hear about Brock Lesnar part of it:

 

[Nicho50]

Again if proven true and he’s charged with something then throw the book at Brock to but I’m not taking what people say on podcasts or text messages as facts until it’s proven to be true. Is it likely it’s true and accurate probably is but until that time it’s innuendo.

For mine it’s the same as the most recent one in Jericho where you have podcasts bring up information , other people are backing it saying people are to scared to come forward against him but at this state all it is is innuendo until something is proven. The only reason I am mentioning Jericho to is because it happened just weeks ago. It’s not an AEW v WWE. It’s not a victim blaming thing it’s purely saying here are two guys that have been accused of something and until such time as something is proven to be factual it remains that way.