• Please read this post on the rules on BigFooty regarding posting copyright material, including fair dealing rules. Repeat infringements could see your account limited or closed.

WADA finds high tb4 levels in Bombers pair.

Remove this Banner Ad

sonnywalters said:
It was so bizarre that when the Colless-Fitzpatrick thing came out, Timmy Flogson somehow tried to connect it to the Bombers and claim it proved their victim status somehow. Talk about twisted.
Click to expand...

In that the AFL are corrupt. yes everyone knows, inside and outside of Essendon.

I still haven't heard a successful explanation as to why Essendon are victims in all this. Why would the AFL target them for no reason? Why would they target James Hird for no reason? I can't think of anything that stands up to critical analysis.

I think Timmy is going back to 2013 when the AFL kicked Essendon out of the finals and gave Hird his penalty. The reason for that penalty wasn't just the AFL being vindictive against one of their biggest clubs because Fitzy hated Hirdy for having nicer hair. The AFL knew that if they didn't punish them in some way that the chances of WADA getting super pissed off would of been much higher than it even is now.

It was a bargaining tool in the hope that it would ease punishment on players, which looks like it won't work.
 
Blue1980 said:
No one trusts the AFL, but do you and other Essendon supporters believe they are conspiring against your club? Surely not, AFL would like this to go away as quick as possible, and have tried to make it go away, but now they can't.

Thing is if the AFL know the hammer will fall on Essendon, they will very quickly change from being protective of Essendon to shaming them. It's the AFL way.
Click to expand...

Exactly

This is worst case senario for the afl

A middle size club done for systematic drug cheating is not good from their shoes. They have no reason attempt to 'hurt the bummers. Degraded theories from the tullamarine faithful
 
Blue1980 said:
I am not sure that Cronulla style deals wouldn't have been appealed by WADA. Considering Cronulla were given leway for how much the Essendon saga had sidetracked the investigation into them.

Essendon had faught ASADA at every turn to delay, deflect, spin their way out of trouble. Also Dank was employed by Essendon a lot longer than he was at Cronulla.

They may of been able to get away with a small penalty, but we will never know now.
Click to expand...
Maybe. But if the deals were done quickly and ASADA was able to explain its position, WADA would have very likely begrudgingly ticked them off like they did Cronulla. I doubt WADA wants to come in unless it has to do. ASADA just had to say - look, no pos tests, circ evidence, players were duped by Dank. They could have easily sold that story and low penalties to WADA. Easily. By digging their heels in, EFC forced ASADA to strengthen its case and gather more evidence. If EFC had done a quick dirty deal, then there would be less evidence and it would have remained in the 'unknown' category.'
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Gavstar said:
Hindsight is great but doesn't a Cronulla-like penalty back in 2013 seem like a dream scenario had the bombers accepted it compared to the strategy they have pursued!
Click to expand...

It is not about the penalty, it is about standing on our principles as a club. I don't see any point in accepting a lesser penalty if you never cheated in the first place, on principle, that just doesn't sit right. Hirdy wasn't having that. At the end of the day, EFC will be justified.
 
Blue1980 said:
In that the AFL are corrupt. yes everyone knows, inside and outside of Essendon.

I still haven't heard a successful explanation as to why Essendon are victims in all this. Why would the AFL target them for no reason? Why would they target James Hird for no reason? I can't think of anything that stands up to critical analysis.

I think Timmy is going back to 2013 when the AFL kicked Essendon out of the finals and gave Hird his penalty. The reason for that penalty wasn't just the AFL being vindictive against one of their biggest clubs because Fitzy hated Hirdy for having nicer hair. The AFL knew that if they didn't punish them in some way that the chances of WADA getting super pissed off would of been much higher than it even is now.

It was a bargaining tool in the hope that it would ease punishment on players, which looks like it won't work.
Click to expand...

Well said

Space cadets
 
SonOfurX said:
It is not about the penalty, it is about standing on our principles as a club. I don't see any point in accepting a lesser penalty if you never cheated in the first place, on principle, that just doesn't sit right. Hirdy wasn't having that. At the end of the day, EFC will be justified.
Click to expand...

I got news for you ...
 
SonOfurX said:
It is not about the penalty, it is about standing on our principles as a club. I don't see any point in accepting a lesser penalty if you never cheated in the first place, on principle, that just doesn't sit right. Hirdy wasn't having that. At the end of the day, EFC will be justified.
Click to expand...
Where to begin with this post.....
 
sonnywalters said:
Maybe. But if the deals were done quickly and ASADA was able to explain its position, WADA would have very likely begrudgingly ticked them off like they did Cronulla. I doubt WADA wants to come in unless it has to do. ASADA just had to say - look, no pos tests, circ evidence, players were duped by Dank. They could have easily sold that story and low penalties to WADA. Easily. By digging their heels in, EFC forced ASADA to strengthen its case and gather more evidence. If EFC had done a quick dirty deal, then there would be less evidence and it would have remained in the 'unknown' category.'
Click to expand...

True, if they did a deal in like 2013 or even last year before going to court. By that time I think any deals or good will were lost.
 
SonOfurX said:
It is not about the penalty, it is about standing on our principles as a club. I don't see any point in accepting a lesser penalty if you never cheated in the first place, on principle, that just doesn't sit right. Hirdy wasn't having that. At the end of the day, EFC will be justified.
Click to expand...

The thing is though,Essendon have no idea whether they cheated or not.Essendon is not standing by any principles ,they were hoping there was not enough evidence to find them guilty and lucked out
 
johnnyscarecrow said:
Oh I think we both know that it will be established by a fair, independent review of the facts that there were things put in his bloodstream, and the bodies of 33 other players, that had no business being there, don't we?

Whatever it takes.
Click to expand...

Lol

It's not exactly a secret why Paddy left. I can't help it if you're uninformed.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

SonOfurX said:
It is not about the penalty, it is about standing on our principles as a club. I don't see any point in accepting a lesser penalty if you never cheated in the first place, on principle, that just doesn't sit right. Hirdy wasn't having that. At the end of the day, EFC will be justified.
Click to expand...

What principles?
Standing up for principles was only a viable option if you could back it up with credible records and invoices. You couldn't. So the principles had zero foundation. You didnt have records and invoices two years ago and you wont have them now. You cannot be 'justified.' The circumstantial evidence is strong enough. You are living in a fantasy world if you think there is going to be some kind of miraculous salvation and redemption experience. Salvation/Redemption plots are part of movies and books but it wont be happening in real life.
 
Last edited:
SonOfurX said:
It is not about the penalty, it is about standing on our principles as a club. I don't see any point in accepting a lesser penalty if you never cheated in the first place, on principle, that just doesn't sit right. Hirdy wasn't having that. At the end of the day, EFC will be justified.
Click to expand...

When they are all wearing prison bar guernseys and not of the Port Adelaide Magpies variety
 
sonnywalters said:
What principles?
Standing up for principles was only a viable option if you could back it up with credible records and invoices. You couldn't. So the principles had zero foundation. You didnt have records and invoices two years ago and you wont have them now. You cannot be 'justified.' The circumstantial evidence is strong enough. You are living in a fantasy world if you think there is going to be some kind of miraculous salvation experience. Salvation plots are part of movies and books but it wont be happening in real life.
Click to expand...

A lot of things come to mind with how Essendon have conducted themselves in this whole matter (certainly since Little took over). Having principles or values don't come to mind. Unless you consider 'trying to throw everything at a wall in the hope it will exonerate us of everything' as a principle.
 
Blue1980 said:
Which in your eyes are trying to get away with everything by any means possible.
Click to expand...

Usually I have posters speaking on my behalf, this is new, you have taken a different approach, you can see the world through my eyes.
Mind you, this is a good thing, now you might finally be able to see through all the BS. #standbyhird.
 
SonOfurX said:
Usually I have posters speaking on my behalf, this is new, you have taken a different approach, you can see the world through my eyes.
Mind you, this is a good thing, now you might finally be able to see through all the BS. #standbyhird.
Click to expand...

I read between the lines and used my own judgement which I trust over your 'the truth is out there' rhetoric.

Feel free to stand by hird, I am happy for him to remain as coach for many years to come.
 
SonOfurX said:
It is not about the penalty, it is about standing on our principles as a club. I don't see any point in accepting a lesser penalty if you never cheated in the first place, on principle, that just doesn't sit right. Hirdy wasn't having that. At the end of the day, EFC will be justified.
Click to expand...

considering your club can not categorically prove whether they cheated via what did go into the players bodies tells me your line of argument is void...in other words, you've got nothing to suggest otherwise.
i can also tell you that your club will not be justified by the end of today.

you remind me of a number of previous posters on the htb that are no longer allowed on the htb, you're heading ion the right direction if you keep following suit..
 
Gavstar said:
WADA seems to be of the view that the source of TB4 is exogenous in the elevated samples.

1) Exogenous TB4 peptide is in the active form (43 amino acids) and is produced either chemically or through fermentation in bacterial cells.

2) Endogenous TB4 peptide is produced in human cells from the cleavage of the pre-cursor form (44) into an active form (43) plus by-products (methionine). There are a number of isoforms (slightly different versions) able to be produced.

This would lead me to believe that WADA has developed at technique which can detect the difference between 1 & 2. If this can be proven to a scientific standard this would be a smoking gun for at least two players (and would allow the Commission if it so chose to push additional team doping penalties (it won't)).

WADA is of the view that 2 of the 27 samples are elevated. This could be very significant if the two elevated tests were shown to occur when certain events were occurring eg it coincided with the shipment from GL Biochem >Charters >Alavi > Dank and proposed injection timing. It would be even more interesting if the same players were tested twice and shown to be positive at a certain point in time (during Dank regime) and negative at another time (pre or post Dank regime). Further building blocks in the circumstantial case.

I would think that WADA will be testing for the presence of other molecules in the urine such as those on consent forms, on the charge sheet and seeking access to any additional samples including blood stored in ASADA's repository.

Jimmie Hird and EFC saying they are not nervous or worried is just spin.

Hindsight is great but doesn't a Cronulla-like penalty back in 2013 seem like a dream scenario had the bombers accepted it compared to the strategy they have pursued!

PS There is still 5 year window to retest any of these samples using new techniques.
Click to expand...


Well written concise analysis Gavstar !

Just from my limited knowledge, the alleged TB4 purchased from GL Biochem was TB4 Acetate which I think would make it "exogenous" as you say.
This would mean that even a small trace of this type of TB4 found in frozen samples would be not naturally occurring, and would be a big problem for the players.

Research on this TB4 issue seems to be increasing, mainly due to doping of horses in the racing industry.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22962027
 

Remove this Banner Ad

WADA finds high tb4 levels in Bombers pair.

Similar threads

Satan
Pharmacist involved in essendon saga sadly found dead
Replies
3
Views
882
Satan
Satan

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top