WADA finds high tb4 levels in Bombers pair.

[Spook]

Because he has bravely spoken out against the injustice Essendon have faced - largely of the AFL's doing.
As a response, the AFL have undertaken a relentless - and very successful - propaganda campaign against Hird.
While all this happens, there is little to no evidence of any wrongdoing by EFC.
EFC should be commended for our patience in the face of this injustice. Instead, we are marginalized against by the wider football community.
We are the real victims here. James Hird is fighting the good fight.

We (EFC) self reported. Plus, we have already paid our penance for that issue (governance).
This whole saga should have ended there. Yet the witch hunt continues.

OK. Let me guess "We don't know what we did/didn't do but we know we did nothing wrong" no probs

 

[CountryRace]

OK. Let me guess "We don't know what we did/didn't do but we know we did nothing wrong" no probs

And yet - we have already paid our penance for that issue

 

[Gavstar]

GL Biochem and most synthetic peptide companies only sell TB4 Acetate.

"acetylation is a common strategy in drug development of peptides to increase the half-life, and therefore the activity, of peptides.[14] This acetylation should allow for a clear differentiation between endogenous and exogenous Tβ4 in biological samples"

It would be a student project to create antibodies that would differentiate between the two. It wouldn't matter how low or high the acetate version was its presence would be enough to signify doping.

Once the test is verified and accredited the two players should be immediately charged.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

If you correct wouldn't this though provide grounds for a "positive" test rather than an abnormal test? If it could only be the exogenous form that is detected surely that's a yes you have it/no you don't question. A positive test then assumes guilt...
Not saying you wrong just would have thought this would be much more significant than two lines, on page 20 in a 100 page document.

One of the problems may be that there are no standards yet set for this new test. A positive result is one of that is above a certain known level (which maybe zero) and has been validated with rigorous scientific trials. As this may be a new test, it may not be possible to call it positive. As it is expected to "normally" not show any tb4 and it has in these 2 cases, it can be called "abnormal" rather than positive.
Just a hunch, but this could be the reason.

 

[oldgriffin]

It would be a student project to create antibodies that would differentiate between the two. It wouldn't matter how low or high the acetate version was its presence would be enough to signify doping.

Once the test is verified and accredited the two players should be immediately charged.

I agree.
I think this research into TB4 use in horses/athletes is still fairly recent and testing hasn't been accredited as yet, but I'm sure it is being worked hard on.
Interesting one of the obstacles to this research on athletes is the ethics around injecting healthy people with unknown drugs - very comforting for the players !

 

[SonOfurX]

And yet - we have already paid our penance for that issue

The issue of governance, yes. We have. As I previous stated, mind you.

 

[Max Headroom]

Yes it's all pretty funny

Can you answer me why dank confessed to injecting efc with tb4?

According to ASADA he knew it was banned at this point so it was a pretty stupid mistake to make, very strange.

 

[SonOfurX]

OK. Let me guess "We don't know what we did/didn't do but we know we did nothing wrong" no probs

That is actually consistent with what I previously stated. That we paid our penance for governance issues - which we did. Outside of governance issues, there actually is little to no evidence of any wrong doing.

 

[Muggs]

One of the problems may be that there are no standards yet set for this new test. A positive result is one of that is above a certain known level (which maybe zero) and has been validated with rigorous scientific trials. As this may be a new test, it may not be possible to call it positive. As it is expected to "normally" not show any tb4 and it has in these 2 cases, it can be called "abnormal" rather than positive.
Just a hunch, but this could be the reason.

It would be a student project to create antibodies that would differentiate between the two. It wouldn't matter how low or high the acetate version was its presence would be enough to signify doping.

Once the test is verified and accredited the two players should be immediately charged.

So basically watch this space, well actually the WADA news page, for any TB4 test accreditation being announced between now and Nov when the hearing is held (and next 7 years for that matter..)

 

[good4footy]

'2 lines buried in the evidence presented' - why does the fact that it wasn't headlined matter. Some may consider that there isn't a song and dance about it in the evidence 'interestingly mischievous'. To think there will be nothing attached / supporting those 'buried 2 lines' is to believe in fairies.

How do we know that is the only new evidence? umm because Chip and Tim have said so… they are the only ones that matter apparently. Anyone else that has presented anything that links anything negative to the new evidence…."people are now resorting to Ings for information gee"

Foamers bagged for extrapolating by Hirdites doing the same thing.

 

[Lockyer24]

How coincidental

1. On 2 December Charter returned to Melbourne from Shanghai with the raw material in respect of the first purchase of peptides including Thymosin Beta-4.
2. On 11 January 2012, Charter forwarded a text message to Dank stating: Which peptides do you need (compounded) next?
3. In his reply Dank requested “Thymosin Beta 4 and “CJC-1295”
4. Charter then queried: what sort of quantities?
5. Dank replied to Charter stating: Thymosin 20 of 5ml vials.
6. Charter then forwarded a text message to Alavi stating: Hi Mate. Thymosin – 20 x 5ml vials. Steve's request.
7. On 12 January 2012, Charter emailed a document to both Dank and Alavi which described “How to Use TB-500 (Thymosin Beta 4)”. The document described the optimum means by which to prepare, administer and store Thymosin Beta-4. Within the body of the accompanying email Charter asked Dank to check the document to ensure his concurrence with the protocols suggested “so we can make [the Thymosin Beta-4] up accordingly”. The document contained the statement that it was “For research purposes only”.
8. Within Charter’s document it is recommended that Thymosin Beta-4 be administered subcutaneously, at the optimum frequency of “one vial per [subcutaneous] injection per week for 6 consecutive weeks, then 1 vial per month”. The frequency rate of administration for ‘Thymosin’ on the players’ “Patient Information/Informed Consent’ form is ‘1 Thymosin injection once a week for six weeks and then 1 injection per month”.

afl.com.au

It's almost comical we are still waiting for justice.

 

[SonOfurX]

It's almost comical we are still waiting for justice.

In fairness to Dank, he is not infallible. I'm sure we've all made simple errors.
Steve Dank later clarified that he actually meant 'thymodulin'.
I hope that clears things up for you.

 

[jenny61_99]

One of the problems may be that there are no standards yet set for this new test. A positive result is one of that is above a certain known level (which maybe zero) and has been validated with rigorous scientific trials. As this may be a new test, it may not be possible to call it positive. As it is expected to "normally" not show any tb4 and it has in these 2 cases, it can be called "abnormal" rather than positive.
Just a hunch, but this could be the reason.

As someone pointed out, there are ELISA kits to test for tb4, though these are for research purposes rather than for commercial purposes. They are also very expensive (we pay around $2,500 for one kit that tests 96 samples - 48 if you are dual testing) and have a short shelf life, so possibly prohibitive within a cash strapped anti doping agency environment. I also posted a study done on a sample size of 618 normal subjects that gave an average tb4 reading, so there is some information about.

 

[Lockyer24]

In fairness to Dank, he is not infallible. I'm sure we've all made simple errors.
Steve Dank later clarified that he actually meant 'thymodulin'.
I hope that clears things up for you.

Yet no return text messages from Alavi or Charter ever corrected him.

As there was no correction required.

Keep chipping away

 

[wowlace]

so ASADA dun goofed again. What a surprise.

ASADA barrackers, let's hear the excuses. What is it this time?

 

[Blue1980]

"It is clear that WADA does not know what the results mean. There were no supporting documents or evidence in the WADA brief and there are real doubts as to the significance of these claims."

They don't even know what the results mean lol.

Going from confirming significance to have real doubts to the significance is a big stretch.

So far according to many Essendon people the following mean nothing:

1. Dank talking about TB4, then realizing he shouldn't of a few days later (Baker/McKenzie)
2. Hirdy/Dank texts
3. Ordering of TB4 which was a perfect match with when you would be injecting it.
4. Mysterious loss of records.
5. Dank refusing to do or say anything that could clear them.
6. Essendon and Hird trying to stop the evidence from even being heard by taking ASADA to court last year
7. On top of all the above we have the abnormal levels of TB4 in a couple of players when it only stays in your system for a short period of time. But this on top of everything else is just a coincidence.

I am sure there are many other things which point to a dodgy regime with non approved drugs being injected into players, that I can't think of at the moment.

I will say this to Essendon supporters, say this was a case against the Chinese swim team, you would be laughing your asses off at the excuses being offered and definitely be sure about what went down.

But because these are good aussie blokes you can have a beer with, they can't be guilty according to some. It's only those dirty rotten foreigners who cheat, not top blokes like us.

 

[mxett]

In fairness to Dank, he is not infallible. I'm sure we've all made simple errors.
Steve Dank later clarified that he actually meant 'thymodulin'.
I hope that clears things up for you.

Yet for some reason has attempted to justify the use of TB4 in sport, a substance he apparently never used, on a number of occasions. Strange behaviour to defend something you didn't do

 

[Randomizor]

Yet for some reason has attempted to justify the use of TB4 in sport, a substance he apparently never used, on a number of occasions. Strange behaviour to defend something you didn't do

Are you one of the rare Essendon supporters who sees this latest news as it is?

 

[Broken_Chairs]

'2 lines buried in the evidence presented' - why does the fact that it wasn't headlined matter.

2 lines buried amongst other lines buried within many other buried lines - that's how paragraphs work, & reports are constructed

 

[DERIBERATE]

'2 lines buried in the evidence presented' - why does the fact that it wasn't headlined matter. Some may consider that there isn't a song and dance about it in the evidence 'interestingly mischievous'. To think there will be nothing attached / supporting those 'buried 2 lines' is to believe in fairies.

How do we know that is the only new evidence? umm because Chip and Tim have said so… they are the only ones that matter apparently. Anyone else that has presented anything that links anything negative to the new evidence…."people are now resorting to Ings for information gee"

Foamers bagged for extrapolating by Hirdites doing the same thing.

He's used to scripts, publicists and "focus words" and the like. The idea he has to learn things for himself is disturbing to him, and conjures images of the 2 years he spent outside the media in a coaching role. He's terrified.

 

[hawks realist]

you're the one needing a coping mechanism - namely latching onto anything you can to make a song and dance out of

Like poor Albert and his Hexarellan?

 

[thegrach]

Are you one of the rare Essendon supporters who sees this latest news as it is?

To be fair, I think there are a fair few now who are starting to concede that it has probably happened. The vocal minority are still manning the fort though.

 

[Blue1980]

Yet for some reason has attempted to justify the use of TB4 in sport, a substance he apparently never used, on a number of occasions. Strange behaviour to defend something you didn't do

Be careful Mxett, you may be attacked by Essendon people claiming your not one of them

 

[jatz14]

Yet for some reason has attempted to justify the use of TB4 in sport, a substance he apparently never used, on a number of occasions. Strange behaviour to defend something you didn't do

It is the double wammy defence. I didn't do it, and if you prove I did do it, it wasn't wrong anyway.

 

[mxett]

Are you one of the rare Essendon supporters who sees this latest news as it is?

Well, I have thought for a while that Dank probably used TB4, so it hasn't changed my mind about what I believe happened in 2012. However, depending on the reliability and strength of this new test and the results, it certainly has the potential to sway the result of the case in WADAs favour