2nds WAFL / Beagles Watch 2023

[RookiePick]

I thought it was a good idea originally too and was a step in the right direction. But how long do we persist? The wafl clubs arent going to let us recruit how we want or need to. Rightly or wrongly they are just as stubborn.

What i dont get is the seemingly huge attachment some on here (and at the club) seem to have to this concept that's only been around since 2019 and just keeps failing

Basically everything the club has touched since 2019 has turned to shit.

The "Poodas Touch" if you will.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I thought it was a good idea originally too and was a step in the right direction. But how long do we persist? The wafl clubs arent going to let us recruit how we want or need to. Rightly or wrongly they are just as stubborn.

What i dont get is the seemingly huge attachment some on here (and at the club) seem to have to this concept that's only been around since 2019 and just keeps failing

The concept is keeping our reserves playing together in the same side. That concept’s been around a lot longer and it’s the model that every other club is using, and has used for nearly a decade. Maybe a bit less in the case of the SA clubs, I’m not sure.

The problem is that if no existing WAFL club wants to be a host club (and they don’t), we need to either field our own side or split our reserves up.

 

[Ishmael_]

We got blown out a few times when availability dropped but it didn’t last for an entire season like 2022 and 2023.

That's still problematic though isn't it? There isn't a WAFL standard baseline.

It hampers development. For example, we don't really have the option of playing project players in the reserves like Freo. There's not enough bodies.

 

[Trouto]

I thought it was a good idea originally too and was a step in the right direction. But how long do we persist? The wafl clubs arent going to let us recruit how we want or need to. Rightly or wrongly they are just as stubborn.

What i dont get is the seemingly huge attachment some on here (and at the club) seem to have to this concept that's only been around since 2019 and just keeps failing

if beagles are allowed to have players we require to survive, like the other wafl clubs, it will be invaluable to the Eagles 1sts. Allowing your players to play in position and learn the current game plan and tactics is what its all about. Moot point when 18+ players are injured though. However, if we had the opportunity to pick players like the other wafl clubs, the B team would be much more competitive.

even if we are in a 'host club' arrangement its not ideal cos then the wafl club has the say on the style of play and where players play, not taking into account the Eagles wishes (to a point)

 

[MrWoollie]

People who question the quality of the wafl side just needs to look at the afl team.!8 injuries and the afl team becomes rubbish.You can give the eagles more concessions to top up players but how many is enough or fair.When they were aligned at East Perth we played between 6 -16 players eagles.After 5 years the quality of East Perth players dropped as players retired or borderline players went elsewhere.The other problem the beagles have is that they have to play cat b players in the wafl who might not be up to wafl standard.Peel have the luxury of playing Cat b players in their reserves team and have a league side that is half dockers half peel players and why they are top of the wafl ladder.

Asking from the other side of the world.

Why is the WAFL/WAFC happy with the Peel/Freo setup but does everything to make the Eagles fail?
Why can't we have the same setup as Peel?
Is the Peel setup an alignment like we had with EP? And that didn't work either! If so, why is it working when the EP one didn't?
Or is Peel an effective reserves team? Again, why aren't we allowed to replicate it?

It seems that both SA teams and Freo have worked something out that works while we can't get anything meaningful out of the WAFL/WAFC. Meanwhile we continue to financially support the bankrupt (both morally and financially) local comp.

Is there any way to...
1. Buy MRP
2. Divorce ourselves totally from the WAFC.
3. Stop paying them blood money.
4. Join the VFL reserves comp and use the money saved from paying the WAFC to run the Ressies?

 

[Bender_]

Asking from the other side of the world.

Why is the WAFL/WAFC happy with the Peel/Freo setup but does everythign to make the Eagles fail?
Why can't we have the same setup as Peel?
Is the Peel setup an alignment like we had with EP? And that didn't work either! If so, why is it working when the EP one didn't?
Or is Peel an effective reserves team? Again, why aren't we allowed to replicate it?

It seems that both SA teams and Freo have worked something out that works while we can't get anything meaningful out of the WAFL/WAFC. Meanwhile we continue to financially support the bankrupt (both morally and financially) local comp.

Is there any way to...
1. Buy MRP
2. Divorce ourselves totally from the WAFC.
3. Stop paying them blood money.
4. Join the VFL reserves comp and use the money saved from paying the WAFC to run the Ressies?

Every other WAFL club besides Peel has decades of their own history as part of the league that would prefer the Eagles didn't exist. Peel were broke uber-losers that made money and jagged flags after aligning themselves with Freo. Any other club doesn't want their history and culture tarnished or watered down by being associated with the Eagles. Plus there's no way they don't lose at least some of their control at team selection and positioning by playing Eagles players - to them it's akin to rolling over.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Asking from the other side of the world.

Why is the WAFL/WAFC happy with the Peel/Freo setup but does everythign to make the Eagles fail?
Why can't we have the same setup as Peel?
Is the Peel setup an alignment like we had with EP? And that didn't work either! If so, why is it working when the EP one didn't?
Or is Peel an effective reserves team? Again, why aren't we allowed to replicate it?

Peel have a zone to draw on and a colts and reserves program. We do not, because any zone allocated to us would take away from the existing clubs which they’re dead against, for obvious reasons.

Without being inside either of the WAFL clubs, I’d guess that the Peel alignment has worked where the East Perth alignment failed because Peel was a young club (established 1997) that had had zero success and been basically a punching bag until they latched onto Freo, so they had very little to lose, whereas East Perth and any other existing club have their own history and identity and rusted-on fans who don’t want to give any of that up.

Basically the reason the Peel alignment works for Freo and no alignment works for us is because there’s only one Peel. Perth might be the closest (no success in 45 years, perpetually struggling) but they still have their supporters who will fight tooth and nail to stop the club getting into bed with the Eagles and give up its identity.

Edit: or what Bender said.

 

[kane249]

Is there any way to...
1. Buy MRP
2. Divorce ourselves totally from the WAFC.
3. Stop paying them blood money.
4. Join the VFL reserves comp and use the money saved from paying the WAFC to run the Ressies?

1) We are cashed up, but not that rich
2) Not unless we can find an uber rich benefactor to buy us out from the WAFC, we are their cash cow. The salary cap and draft equalises things, so between that and the lower returns for AFL it wouldn't be worth it for someone.
3) Not while they have our AFL license
4) There are nay sayers, but I believe the AFL is heading that way. Port and the Crows are disgruntled with the SANFL, the 14 other teams are already in the VFL.

 

[Keys]

Don’t underestimate the resentment towards West Coast that resides within WAFL clubs as rightly or wrongly there’s plenty of diehards who blame the Eagles existence for the demise of the WAFL as a competition

You only have to look at Perth who have been an irrelevance for decades and could benefit from an alignment with West Coast but have no interest whatsoever in exploring one

 

[chaddy22]

Yeah i get it, in theory it should work, but its been going 5 years and we've had 1 that wasn't a total waste of time (I get the circumstances)

Perhaps instead of wasting more time we consider doing something different The wafl clubs are just as stubborn as and aren't just going to just bend to what we want

Peel have a zone to draw on and a colts and reserves program. We do not, because any zone allocated to us would take away from the existing clubs which they’re dead against, for obvious reasons.

Without being inside either of the WAFL clubs, I’d guess that the Peel alignment has worked where the East Perth alignment failed because Peel was a young club (established 1997) that had had zero success and been basically a punching bag until they latched onto Freo, so they had very little to lose, whereas East Perth and any other existing club have their own history and identity and rusted-on fans who don’t want to give any of that up.

Basically the reason the Peel alignment works for Freo and no alignment works for us is because there’s only one Peel. Perth might be the closest (no success in 45 years, perpetually struggling) but they still have their supporters who will fight tooth and nail to stop the club getting into bed with the Eagles and give up its identity.

Edit: or what Bender said.

East Perth Needed to go into the alignment due to money troubles.Unless a club hits huge financial problems i don't think a alignment will happen.I don't know Perth's financial position but hoping that they align due to being uncompetitive is a good reason except the supporter base is dead against it and changed the constitution to make it very difficult for such a thing to happen.

 

[Ochre]

Don't think it's crazy to suggest West Coast can be arrogant and even entitled at times and they are not traits you'd want in a potential alliance partner either.

 

[Keys]

Don't think it's crazy to suggest West Coast can be arrogant and even entitled at times and they are not traits you'd want in a potential alliance partner either.

Fair point

Suspect the same could be said to an extent about our dealings with the WAFL clubs re the standalone side

 

[WCE_phil]

It's not working right now but there will be a solution, some of us just might not be around to see it.

Within 20 years the last true diehard WAFL supporters who started with and grew up with WAFL will all be dead or in nursing homes. An alignment some time between now and then is an option. The youngest of the true diehards really had to be somewhere around 20-25 when the eagles came in. It's now been 36 years. So 20 years from now they're 81-86 years old, the youngest. That is not enough long term supporters left to hold onto the 'history'

Within 20 years the AFL will have a national reserves competition. This in reality is the main one and it's nigh on inevitable. Larger or secondary club lists for teams like Freo, West Coast, The Crows etc. Every game can have a lead in match. Sponsorship for it would likely cover all bar player salaries and match day payments and even part of that. If we get to a point where the AFL is willing to cover 80k a player plus match payments to each player of a secondary list of say 10-20 players per team, does anyone think the players won't be in? If you aren't getting a game because of lack of injuries you're still training with an AFL club and getting 80k a year. Plus all the club benefits of food, business connections etc.

Either way long term the WAFL and SANFL are going to lose out. There is just too much money involved for it to not happen at some stage. Im pretty sure we're already at a point whereby the only clubs outside of Victoria the AFL doesn't have the licences to the clubs is WA.

 

[Ljp86]

East Perth Needed to go into the alignment due to money troubles.Unless a club hits huge financial problems i don't think a alignment will happen.I don't know Perth's financial position but hoping that they align due to being uncompetitive is a good reason except the supporter base is dead against it and changed the constitution to make it very difficult for such a thing to happen.

Perth made a profit of $227.1k for the year ended 31 October 2021 and a profit of $89.2k for the year ended 31 October 2022. Their cash and cash equivalents at 31 October 2022 was $727.3k, the year prior it was almost $1M.

 

[THE A5]

Anyone watch the game? Was Barnett playing forward mostly? Looks like both Freo's rucks dominated, including their 18 year old ruckmen knobel who had 24 hitouts

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Anyone watch the game? Was Barnett playing forward mostly? Looks like both Freo's rucks dominated, including their 18 year old ruckmen knobel who had 24 hitouts

Simpson was very lukewarm on Barnett when he was questioned by Schoey... and not just on his physical readiness, but his form as well. It's his first year, obviously... but he'd be a long way off if it weren't for injuries.

 

[Trouto]

Don’t underestimate the resentment towards West Coast that resides within WAFL clubs as rightly or wrongly there’s plenty of diehards who blame the Eagles existence for the demise of the WAFL as a competition

You only have to look at Perth who have been an irrelevance for decades and could benefit from an alignment with West Coast but have no interest whatsoever in exploring one

And the wafl clubs have a point - the inception of West Coast did kill the wafl pretty much, crowds used to be 12-15k at each game, now you would average 1k

 

[WCE_phil]

With WAFL crowds if you take out the players families, friends and partners attending just how much of that is the crowd itself. Yes there are games with higher attendances and for someone like me who is mostly retired and enjoys a day at the footy it is good value. But outside of the 2 genuine derby's and Subiaco's crowds whilst being so dominant and having the huge benefits of the bar at Subi just how many people are true WAFL diehard club supporters who go?

I'd suggest it's very low and getting lower.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

And the wafl clubs have a point - the inception of West Coast did kill the wafl pretty much, crowds used to be 12-15k at each game, now you would average 1k

Probably true, but what was the alternative? Not join a national comp?

 

[Ochre]

Probably true, but what was the alternative? Not join a national comp?

It wasn't a national competition when we joined, it was a Vic comp with a struggling Sydney team and soon to be struggling Brisbane team. The WAFL themselves shouldve been looking for a way to combine with the SANFL and/or VFL into a truly national competition.

 

[Trouto]

Probably true, but what was the alternative? Not join a national comp?

I agree with you

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

It wasn't a national competition when we joined, it was a Vic comp with a struggling Sydney team and soon to be struggling Brisbane team. The WAFL themselves shouldve been looking for a way to combine with the SANFL and/or VFL into a truly national competition.

True, but unless all eight WAFL teams joined the truly national comp there was always going to be a national comp getting all the eyeballs and a state comp relegated to minor status.

 

[ioppolo]

Just merge everything and have promotion/relegation. Then the Eagles can just buy their way to championships every year and not have to work for it.

 

[CountryLad]

Just merge everything and have promotion/relegation. Then the Eagles can just buy their way to championships every year and not have to work for it.

Like it

 

[THE A5]

While I see where Phil is coming from I, however, don't think the WAFL should fold but rather they should relocate to Tassie