Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[Zidane98]

Just over 2 years to the day that Israel / Hamas implemented a truce following the Aug 2022 3 day war:





There were no further clashes between Hamas / Israel. One week before the Oct 7 attacks Israel reopened the Gaza border to Gazan citizens for health reasons & those with employment permits:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-reopens-gaza-crossings-lets-palestinians-back-work-after-two-weeks-2023-09-28/

Let's hope similar agreements are implemented in the near future and respected this time round.

 

[faible]

Shut Iran down and the war stops by itself, even without a ceasefire agreement.

What makes you think that Israel won't just keep going, they've shown no signs of concern regarding the deaths or displacement of civilians or destruction of infrastructure. Almost like it's intentional.

 

[faible]

They have been doing this since day one of this conflict. But no, it's Israel deliberately targeting civilians

Like you, I'm also wondering about the never-ending supply of arms Hamas seems to be obtaining. Perhaps the pro-Hamas - oops, pro-Palestine mob have some ideas.

It's an area about the same size of metro Geelong. For reference. It's one of the most densely populated places on earth.

There's not exactly an abundance of non-civilian land for them to use. This is also how guerilla warfare looks when you're living under military oppression. Fighting in your streets and your homes.

And since apparently every single post needs a disclaimer, no, this doesn't mean the war crimes or violations of IHL and IHRL by Hamas or similar groups are acceptable.

On the latter, perhaps consider the kind of arms Hamas are using. We're not talking them having fighter jets to drop bombs en masse type thing.

And as for the bolded, well we all know how stupid someone must be if they're trying to argue that

 

[Zidane98]

What makes you think that Israel won't just keep going, they've shown no signs of concern regarding the deaths or displacement of civilians or destruction of infrastructure. Almost like it's intentional.

My opinion is Israel sees Iran/Hezbollah/Houthis/Hezbollah as an existential threat, All of these states / proxies surround Israel, repeatedly call for the destruction of the state of Israel and all have attacked Israel regularly (not just during this war).


If that threat were to publicly stand down, cease rhetoric about destroying the state of Israel IMO Israel would soon stand down as there would be no ongoing threat to the state.


Hamas without weapons would definitely call off the fight IMO as they're already on their knees. They have no capacity to arm themselves without help from Iran.


I'd like to see Iran provide only humanitarian aid / defensive weaponry only to Gaza strip in the future.

 

[Zidane98]

It's an area about the same size of metro Geelong. For reference. It's one of the most densely populated places on earth.

There's not exactly an abundance of non-civilian land for them to use. This is also how guerilla warfare looks when you're living under military oppression. Fighting in your streets and your homes.

And since apparently every single post needs a disclaimer, no, this doesn't mean the war crimes or violations of IHL and IHRL by Hamas or similar groups are acceptable.

On the latter, perhaps consider the kind of arms Hamas are using. We're not talking them having fighter jets to drop bombs en masse type thing.

And as for the bolded, well we all know how stupid someone must be if they're trying to argue that

What's your latest thoughts on Hamas publicly attacking Israeli civilians with murderous intent from within a refugee tent in the declared humanitarian zone? Would be interesting to see your thoughts on how Israel should deal with this attack.

 

[faible]

There were no further clashes between Hamas / Israel.

Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2022 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Seems there was still quite a bit happening between Israel and Palestinians. A touch selective.

 

[faible]

What's your latest thoughts on Hamas publicly attacking Israeli civilians with murderous intent from within a refugee tent in the declared humanitarian zone? Would be interesting to see your thoughts on how Israel should deal with this attack.

I literally added this in since I knew you'd do exactly this:

And since apparently every single post needs a disclaimer, no, this doesn't mean the war crimes or violations of IHL and IHRL by Hamas or similar groups are acceptable.

 

[faible]

My opinion is Israel sees Iran/Hezbollah/Houthis/Hezbollah as an existential threat, All of these states / proxies surround Israel, repeatedly call for the destruction of the state of Israel and all have attacked Israel regularly (not just during this war).


If that threat were to publicly stand down, cease rhetoric about destroying the state of Israel IMO Israel would soon stand down as there would be no ongoing threat to the state.


Hamas without weapons would definitely call off the fight IMO as they're already on their knees. They have no capacity to arm themselves without help from Iran.


I'd like to see Iran provide only humanitarian aid / defensive weaponry only to Gaza strip in the future.

The West Bank is no existential threat to Israel yet they're doing plenty of things over there too.

My opinion is the death and displacement of civilians in Gaza is the intention. October 7th is just their excuse to do it faster.

 

[Zidane98]

It's an area about the same size of metro Geelong. For reference. It's one of the most densely populated places on earth.

There's not exactly an abundance of non-civilian land for them to use. This is also how guerilla warfare looks when you're living under military oppression. Fighting in your streets and your homes.

And since apparently every single post needs a disclaimer, no, this doesn't mean the war crimes or violations of IHL and IHRL by Hamas or similar groups are acceptable.

On the latter, perhaps consider the kind of arms Hamas are using. We're not talking them having fighter jets to drop bombs en masse type thing.

And as for the bolded, well we all know how stupid someone must be if they're trying to argue that

This isn't true. Map of Gaza




There's plenty of areas for military operations by Hamas without endangering Gazan civilinas. A reasonable person must deduce that Hamas deliberately operate from civilian areas in an attempt to attack Israeli civilians with impunity. I note the fighting in your streets & homes reference which implies Hamas are not to blame here.

They've gotten themselves long range rockets with guidance systems. Not the stuff a typical insurgent terrorist group has.

 

[Zidane98]

I literally added this in since I knew you'd do exactly this:

Except you didn't answer the question put to you.


I'll ask you again -how do you believe Israel should deal with Hamas launching multiple rockets from a refugee tent in a humanitarian area of Gaza strip?


I'm happy to give my opinion here. I'd expect Israel to gather intelligence on the ground, find where the rockets are stored. Evacuate the area surrounding the rocket storage location 48 hours prior and target it in a military strike. Send multiple advance warnings by leaflets in the hours leading up to an air strike.


Do you believe this would be a reasonable course of action taken by Israel here?

 

[faible]

This isn't true. Map of Gaza


View attachment 2079890

There's plenty of areas for military operations by Hamas without endangering Gazan civilinas. A reasonable person must deduce that Hamas deliberately operate from civilian areas in an attempt to attack Israeli civilians with impunity. I note the fighting in your streets & homes reference which implies Hamas are not to blame here.

They've gotten themselves long range rockets with guidance systems. Not the stuff a typical insurgent terrorist group has.

You might want to look on Google maps if you think the non-shaded areas are simply all vacant.

Your 'note' would be wrong, and is you doing that thing where you make it up.

 

[Zidane98]

The West Bank is no existential threat to Israel yet they're doing plenty of things over there too.

My opinion is the death and displacement of civilians in Gaza is the intention. October 7th is just their excuse to do it faster.

So death and displacement of Gazan civilians is allegedly the intent.

These actions really make sense in that regard

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-reopens-gaza-crossings-lets-palestinians-back-work-after-two-weeks-2023-09-28/

Leaving that aside, I found this report on Gaza from an expert who specialises in civilian harm mitigation quite helpful:

Israeli Civilian Harm Mitigation in Gaza: Gold Standard or Fool’s Gold?

Is Israel adhering to the gold standard for civilian harm mitigation in its operations in Gaza?

www.justsecurity.org

The report states that while the IDF have clearly taken precautions to mitigate civilian harm they also clearly need to do much more due to the nature of the war.

One thing is for sure -the IDF are definitely not going around causing as many civilian deaths as possible.

 

[Zidane98]

You might want to look on Google maps if you think the non-shaded areas are simply all vacant.

Your 'note' would be wrong, and is you doing that thing where you make it up.

You might want to look at the post you've quoted again. Nowhere did I say the non shaded areas were completely vacant. It's just you making up more stuff when you've been called out on making an incorrect statement.

There's plenty of areas for Hamas to conduct military operations in outside of densely populated urban areas.

 

[faible]

Except you didn't answer the question put to you.


I'll ask you again -how do you believe Israel should deal with Hamas launching multiple rockets from a refugee tent in a humanitarian area of Gaza strip?


I'm happy to give my opinion here. I'd expect Israel to gather intelligence on the ground, find where the rockets are stored. Evacuate the area surrounding the rocket storage location 48 hours prior and target it in a military strike. Send multiple advance warnings by leaflets in the hours leading up to an air strike.


Do you believe this would be a reasonable course of action taken by Israel here?

Israel should probably stop mass murdering Gazans for a start. They're the far more advanced, armed, and dangerous party here. They have far more capacity to actually defend themselves than the Palestinian people do, without having to invade Gaza to do so. As I've said multiple times, what they're doing right now simply creates the conditions for another version of a group like Hamas to appear, unless of course, they do completely clear Gaza.

If the argument is 'Hamas should stop firing shit so Israel stop reacting' then shouldn't it work both ways?

Note: this doesn't absolve Hamas or similar groups for the war crimes or violations of IHL or IHRL they've committed.

 

[faible]

So death and displacement of Gazan civilians is allegedly the intent.

These actions really make sense in that regard

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-reopens-gaza-crossings-lets-palestinians-back-work-after-two-weeks-2023-09-28/

Leaving that aside, I found this report on Gaza from an expert who specialises in civilian harm mitigation quite helpful:

Israeli Civilian Harm Mitigation in Gaza: Gold Standard or Fool’s Gold?

Is Israel adhering to the gold standard for civilian harm mitigation in its operations in Gaza?

www.justsecurity.org

The report states that while the IDF have clearly taken precautions to mitigate civilian harm they also clearly need to do much more due to the nature of the war.

One thing is for sure -the IDF are definitely not going around causing as many civilian deaths as possible.

You're relying on some really spurious information and conclusions that ignores the reality of what's going on.

Look at the extent of the bombing, the displacement, the starvation. Every action is taken to maximise impact on civilians within the bounds of what they believe they can get away with.

It's working too. As is evidenced by the fact they're still doing it, daily. They're still getting their cheerleaders online diminishing it and supporting it. They're getting plenty of MSM outlets supporting it. The US is still standing overwatch for them.

Almost any other regime on earth would be a pariah if they were actually doing what Israel is doing to the Palestinian people.

 

[Zidane98]

Israel should probably stop mass murdering Gazans for a start. They're the far more advanced, armed, and dangerous party here. They have far more capacity to actually defend themselves than the Palestinian people do, without having to invade Gaza to do so. As I've said multiple times, what they're doing right now simply creates the conditions for another version of a group like Hamas to appear, unless of course, they do completely clear Gaza.

If the argument is 'Hamas should stop firing shit so Israel stop reacting' then shouldn't it work both ways?

Note: this doesn't absolve Hamas or similar groups for the war crimes or violations of IHL or IHRL they've committed.

You really cannot answer a genuine question with resorting to whataboutisms can you? You're incredibly consistent on this.

It's notable how you attempt to write any action taken by Hamas off as "just a terrorist group" when in reality they're part of a coalition including Iran & Hezbollah who surround Israel and openly declare their intent to see Israel wiped off the world map. Iran is probably the strongest nation militarily in the ME.


If you're the slightest bit interested in peace you should be looking at ways for Palestinian governance of the Gaza strip that wants to actually have a working relationship with Israel while also looking at ways to force Israel to accept Palestinian statehood even though the fact that all previous times it did it was attacked for doing so.

 

[jason_recliner]

Note the rocket wasn't a home made one either, it has what looks like to be advanced electronics.

What advanced electronics?

 

[faible]

Iran is probably the strongest nation militarily in the ME.

Israel doesn't exist?

If you're the slightest bit interested in peace you should be looking at ways for Palestinian governance of the Gaza strip that wants to actually have a working relationship with Israel while also looking at ways to force Israel to accept Palestinian statehood even though the fact that all previous times it did it was attacked for doing so.

Where have I ever said I don't want to see an independent Palestinian state with a government working for peace alongside their neighbours?

The latter section of your comment has been discussed quite a few times in the other thread when you've tried posting it and was pretty thoroughly debunked.

 

[jason_recliner]

We're coming up to nearly a year of war now so would imagine surely by now they would have run out without some sort of resupply.

What "war"? Israel is just bombing Palestine at will, a defenceless population, with zero consequences and no counter attacks possible. How many rockets were launched this month?

 

[Zidane98]

You're relying on some really spurious information and conclusions that ignores the reality of what's going on.

Look at the extent of the bombing, the displacement, the starvation. Every action is taken to maximise impact on civilians within the bounds of what they believe they can get away with.

It's working too. As is evidenced by the fact they're still doing it, daily. They're still getting their cheerleaders online diminishing it and supporting it. They're getting plenty of MSM outlets supporting it. The US is still standing overwatch for them.

Almost any other regime on earth would be a pariah if they were actually doing what Israel is doing to the Palestinian people.

More evidence that you are radicalised.

Israel are repeatedly called out by all facets of media for their actions in the war with Iran/Hamas/Hezbollah. I could quote you numerous articles that are scathing of Israel's actions in the war. I expect that there will be many war crrimes charges resulting out of this war once it's all concluded.

This certainly isn't the fault of the US though - that's blatant Hamas rhetoric. The reality is the US has provided billions of dollars of aid to Gaza and continues to do so. They even got a cease fire resolution that Israel agreed to past the UN security commission that Hamas did not agree to. And its main military involvement with Israel is providing it with Iron Dome defensive weapons to protect Israel from genocidal attacks by Iran & proxies.


It is telling that while you put out there that the US is helping Israel commit an alleged genocide you totally ignore the role Iran plays which provides no humanitarian aid to Gaza, makes no attempt at mediating peace and openly calls for the destruction of the state of Israel while it and proxies that surround Israel while also actually attacking Israel on a large scale.

 

[faible]

More evidence that you are radicalised.

lol you really can't help yourself.

 

[Zidane98]

What "war"? Israel is just bombing Palestine at will, a defenceless population, with zero consequences and no counter attacks possible. How many rockets were launched this month?

Not sure you're serious with this one




Hezbollah have been bombarding Israel with rockets. Iran are openly declaring they are launching a large scale attack on Israel.


The war is ultimately between Israel & Iran/Iranian proxies.

 

[jason_recliner]

They have been doing this since day one of this conflict. But no, it's Israel deliberately targeting civilians

Like you, I'm also wondering about the never-ending supply of arms Hamas seems to be obtaining. Perhaps the pro-Hamas - oops, pro-Palestine mob have some ideas.

I consider myself pro-Palestinian (= anti-Hamas) so I'll bite. Where was that tent located? When was the footage recorded?

From what little I understand of conditions over there, I suspect any new weapons are smuggled from Iran via tunnels to Egypt. Given the Israeli presence at the Rafah border this supply is likely extremely constrained. The tunnels would now need to be very, very long, very well hidden, and of high structural integrity.

 

[jason_recliner]

They've gotten themselves long range rockets with guidance systems.

What guidance systems?

BTW, when your posts are getting 'likes' by ZEV...

 

[jason_recliner]

Not sure you're serious with this one




Hezbollah have been bombarding Israel with rockets. Iran are openly declaring they are launching a large scale attack on Israel.


The war is ultimately between Israel & Iran/Iranian proxies.

Ok, so how many rockets were launched by Hamas this month? How many in October 2023?

How much damage was caused by Hamas rockets this month? Ignore Israeli deaths, I think I know the answer to that one.