Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[faible]

They stand for eliminating Jew-hating terror groups which constantly threaten to exterminate them.

How does this explain the repeated mass murder of women and children by the IDF though?

 

[SuperSub17]

After 11 months, we’re still resorting to “but Hamas”?

Really?

 

[sherb]

I am so ****ing done with this reasoning for deaths of innocents especially children, if you support Israel Government right now you also have blood on your hands. USA and Australian Government should be ashamed they are so beholden to certain lobbies that they turn a blind eye to this slaughter.

Same, the IDF knows it can murder Palestinian civilians with impunity and just roll out that supposed justification every time.

 

[sherb]

After 11 months, we’re still resorting to “but Hamas”?

Really?

When trying to defend Israel's mass slaughter, it's really all they've got........

 

[DapperDon]

Aren’t you sick of Hamas launching attacks from crowded refugee camps, schools and hospitals yet?

Bibi's not going to sleep with you Dogs, you don't need to swallow all of his bullshit.

 

[Ballarat Bob]

Have to weigh up the risk to hostages of continuing the war vs the risk Hamas's continued existence poses to the Israeli people.

What kind of message would it send that you can have virtual impunity for your terrorism as long as you take hostages? Capitulating to Hamas demands to secure the release of all hostages would only encourage more hostage taking in the future.

Trouble is that Israel has repeatedly done hostages swaps before for the release of Palestinian prisoners. If Israel wants to play hardball then the hostages left are more than likely to die , they are the only leveredge that Hamas has.
Regardless on how good the Israeli intelligence service and armed forces are rescuing hostages from urban areas and tunnels where their captors are more than happy to kill the hostages and die themselves is near impossible. Very few have been rescued so far and many killed whether by Hamas , Israeli bombings or the case where Israeli soldiers shot them inadvertently.
If Bibi actually had a strategy he would negotiate a ceasefire get the hostages released and pull back out of Gaza. If Hamas are stupid enough to try attacking Israel again they will know full well another full scale invasion of Gaza would be launched and there are no hostages to hide behind.
If Bibi is insistent that he wants to crush Hamas fully then he will need to occupy Gaza and have a significant military presence there ongoing without any long term resolution.
I think Bibi will stretch this out until the US elections are decided and he would be hoping for Trump to get in so he gets the green light to do whatever he wants in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

[Jazny]

If Bibi actually had a strategy he would negotiate a ceasefire get the hostages released and pull back out of Gaza. If Hamas are stupid enough to try attacking Israel again they will know full well another full scale invasion of Gaza would be launched and there are no hostages to hide behind.

If they did this, and Hamas did another October 7th style terror attack on Israel, would you support another Israeli full scale invasion in response?

 

[jason_recliner]

Trouble is that Israel has repeatedly done hostages swaps before for the release of Palestinian prisoners. If Israel wants to play hardball then the hostages left are more than likely to die , they are the only leveredge that Hamas has.
Regardless on how good the Israeli intelligence service and armed forces are rescuing hostages from urban areas and tunnels where their captors are more than happy to kill the hostages and die themselves is near impossible. Very few have been rescued so far and many killed whether by Hamas , Israeli bombings or the case where Israeli soldiers shot them inadvertently.
If Bibi actually had a strategy he would negotiate a ceasefire get the hostages released and pull back out of Gaza. If Hamas are stupid enough to try attacking Israel again they will know full well another full scale invasion of Gaza would be launched and there are no hostages to hide behind.
If Bibi is insistent that he wants to crush Hamas fully then he will need to occupy Gaza and have a significant military presence there ongoing without any long term resolution.
I think Bibi will stretch this out until the US elections are decided and he would be hoping for Trump to get in so he gets the green light to do whatever he wants in Gaza and the West Bank.

Nothing to do with Trump. He has had the green light from USA to whatever he wants since October 2023. Trump isn't the President.

 

[faible]

If they did this, and Hamas did another October 7th style terror attack on Israel, would you support another Israeli full scale invasion in response?

Well by this logic, the Palestinian people would be responding to the ongoing and repeated attacks being conducted against them by the terrorist organisation that is the IDF.

 

[Jazny]

Well by this logic, the Palestinian people would be responding to the ongoing and repeated attacks being conducted against them by the terrorist organisation that is the IDF.

In his scenario? What are you talking about?

 

[Ballarat Bob]

If they did this, and Hamas did another October 7th style terror attack on Israel, would you support another Israeli full scale invasion in response?

I would say that after October 7th that Israel would never let it happen again and I doubt that Hamas now has any capability or motivation to mount such an attack again.
Regardless of what Hamas can do against Israel in the short or long term they know that if Bibi or any of his coalition are in power that the retaliation will be overwhelming and would probably involve another full scale incursion into Gaza. Whether that is moral , legitimate or or legal is neither here nor there that is the reality of what Hamas faces. I would prefer that Israel would look to cut the head off the Hamas leadership and use more targeted attacks rather than a show of overwhelming force which impacts a lot of civilians and infrastructure. But Bibi and his coalition are not playing that way anymore.
It's just how far Bibi and his coalition want to go. Members of his coalition have pushed for the Palestinians to be pushed into Egypt and that Gaza should be resettled with Jewish settlers and calls for the establishment of a greater Israel. The calls of river to the sea. Trump is a wild card in this he might just agree to some of the more extreme policy where as Harris will try and keep a lid on it as and tell the Israelis to pull their heads in.

 

[Jazny]

Regardless of what Hamas can do against Israel in the short or long term they know that if Bibi or any of his coalition are in power that the retaliation will be overwhelming and would probably involve another full scale incursion into Gaza. Whether that is moral , legitimate or or legal is neither here nor there that is the reality of what Hamas faces.

That's all fair, but they must have had a inkling that the response to October 7th would be significant too and it didn't deter them. Hamas leadership do not seem particularly motivated to make rational decisions in the best interests of their people.

Trump is a wild card in this he might just agree to some of the more extreme policy where as Harris will try and keep a lid on it as and tell the Israelis to pull their heads in.

True. Trump could be a disaster for a fair outcome for Palestinians. Strong and smart leadership is needed to get a Palestinian state on the road to happening, would be easier without Trump. Hamas's existence also complicates it. As does many of Israel's actions in the West Bank.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

That's all fair, but they must have had a inkling that the response to October 7th would be significant too and it didn't deter them. Hamas leadership do not seem particularly motivated to make rational decisions in the best interests of their people.

True. Trump could be a disaster for a fair outcome for Palestinians. Strong and smart leadership is needed to get a Palestinian state on the road to happening, would be easier without Trump. Hamas's existence also complicates it. As does many of Israel's actions in the West Bank.

The attack on Oct 7 was deliberately planned between Iran and Hamas, and went earlier, against Iran’s wishes, because Hamas fighters were too eager for blood. As Hamas hoped and predicted, the West immediately turned against Israel for not using “proportionate force” - really?

We should be supporting the only liberal democracy in the ME, both militarily and philosophically, against barbarity. Why is Israel held to account and there are never any demands, by anyone, on Hamas to release the hostages?

Hamas could not care less about the Palestinian people they are hiding amongst, depriving of aid, indoctrinating, cynically using as shields. All they want is to kill Jews and wipe out Israel. They keep saying so. I believe them.

Israel will finish this war the way they want, they have no choice, and they won’t be deterred by Western bedwetters. If they backed off Hamas would win. No one wants that, do they?

 

[faible]

the West immediately turned against Israel for not using “proportionate force” - really?

They didn't.

We should be supporting the only liberal democracy in the ME

We shouldn't be supporting war crimes, crimes against humanity, and violations of both IHL and IHRL.

Why is Israel held to account

Because they're committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, and violating both IHL and IHRL.

never any demands, by anyone, on Hamas to release the hostages?

There is. Constantly. Including by the UN.

Israel will finish this war the way they want

They'll finish the Genocide if they're not stopped.

Apparently you're not a fan of 'Never Again' applying universally.

**** me, this is one of the dumbest takes I've yet seen, and I've read some seriously dumb takes.

The level of ignorance required to enact the line of thinking you've just done is staggering.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The attack on Oct 7 was deliberately planned between Iran and Hamas, and went earlier, against Iran’s wishes, because Hamas fighters were too eager for blood. As Hamas hoped and predicted, the West immediately turned against Israel for not using “proportionate force” - really?

We should be supporting the only liberal democracy in the ME, both militarily and philosophically, against barbarity. Why is Israel held to account and there are never any demands, by anyone, on Hamas to release the hostages?

Hamas could not care less about the Palestinian people they are hiding amongst, depriving of aid, indoctrinating, cynically using as shields. All they want is to kill Jews and wipe out Israel. They keep saying so. I believe them.

Israel will finish this war the way they want, they have no choice, and they won’t be deterred by Western bedwetters. If they backed off Hamas would win. No one wants that, do they?

Israel is an apartheid regime, not a liberal democracy. It's somewhat disturbing that you keep ignoring this.

They most certainly have not been held to account.

 

[Jazny]

The attack on Oct 7 was deliberately planned between Iran and Hamas, and went earlier, against Iran’s wishes, because Hamas fighters were too eager for blood. As Hamas hoped and predicted, the West immediately turned against Israel for not using “proportionate force” - really?

The west hasn't turned on Israel, but is pressuring and criticising the way Israel is conducting the war, which I think is okay. War is a horrible thing that impacts innocent people, and even though this war was started by Hamas with their unjustifiable atrocity they committed on October 7th, Israel does have to respond proportionally to achieve their military goals. So international pressure is good to make sure Israel is incentivized to keep the casaulties to only what is necessary to win the war.

This criticism gives the impression that in this conflict only Israel is facing global pressure, but that's not totally accurate. Most Western countries recognise Israel's right to self defence following October 7th and most also recognise Hamas as terrorists. There are not many other ways western countries can realistically pressure Hamas.

So Hamas already has almost a maximum pressure on them from the west short of direct military action. Whereas Israel has broad support, but are constrained by international law and maintaining good relations with their western allies.

 

[Kurve]

The young woman who chucked a ball of sand at Ben Gvir has been indicted. If he can't handle sand on his back he shouldn't be on the beach.

Gvir has no right to be this precious.

Woman who threw sand at Ben-Gvir indicted

A 27-year-old woman accused of throwing sand at Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir on a beach in Tel Aviv last week was charged on Monday. According to the indictment filed in the Tel Aviv Magistrate’s Court, Noa Goldenberg “threw a ball of sand” at Ben-Gvir and his security...

www.jwire.com.au

 

[Kurve]

Gvir's background is pretty horrifying, he still holds the same far-right racist views that exempted him from serving in the IDF when he became eligible.

So he's never served and never done it tough, he's real good at waving guns around at carpark attendants and launches in to a high end tantrum when someone throws sand at him.

This excerpt here doesn't even cover how atrocious and hateful he is.

Ben-Gvir is a settler in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, whose "political background lies in Kahanism - a violently racist movement that supports the expulsion of Palestinians from their lands".[8] He has a long history of anti-Arab activism leading to dozens of indictments and at least eight convictions of crimes including incitement to racism, possession of propaganda for a terrorist organization (the now illegal political party Kach) and support for a terrorist organisation (also Kach).[9] As a lawyer, he is known for defending Jews accused of Jewish extremist terrorism on trial in Israel.[10]

Ben-Gvir is known for being a provocateur and has grabbed headlines for a variety of reasons; threatening Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin on live television in 1995 (Rabin was assassinated shortly after that), having had a portrait in his living room of Baruch Goldstein, a Jewish extremist terrorist and mass murderer, calling for the expulsion of Arab citizens of Israel who are not loyal to Israel in 2019,[7] inciting violent clashes between Jewish settlers and Palestinians in the East Jerusalem neighbourhood of Sheikh Jarrah in 2021, and for making highly controversial visits to the Temple Mount, where the al-Aqsa Mosque is located, in 2023 and 2024

Itamar Ben-Gvir - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Zidane98]

He should be the one locked up.

 

[Zidane98]

Doesn't get much worse than this

 

[Kurve]

He should be the one locked up.

With his history, Gvir should have been disqualified from running for any position in government.

 

[Zidane98]

With his history, Gvir should have been disqualified from running for any position in government.

Absolutely.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

The west hasn't turned on Israel, but is pressuring and criticising the way Israel is conducting the war, which I think is okay. War is a horrible thing that impacts innocent people, and even though this war was started by Hamas with their unjustifiable atrocity they committed on October 7th, Israel does have to respond proportionally to achieve their military goals. So international pressure is good to make sure Israel is incentivized to keep the casaulties to only what is necessary to win the war.

This criticism gives the impression that in this conflict only Israel is facing global pressure, but that's not totally accurate. Most Western countries recognise Israel's right to self defence following October 7th and most also recognise Hamas as terrorists. There are not many other ways western countries can realistically pressure Hamas.

So Hamas already has almost a maximum pressure on them from the west short of direct military action. Whereas Israel has broad support, but are constrained by international law and maintaining good relations with their western allies.

So what is proportionate? When Hamas doesn’t respect international law (they are not a nation) but Israel should, I detect a handicap being placed on one side. They have to weigh up “maintaining good relations with their western allies” or surviving. Looks like it’s one or the other, not both, although they are trying.

You want them to play nice, but how is that possible? Hamas won’t play nice, they won’t conduct their side of the war in an honourable way. Or they wouldn’t be using human shields, which no one wants to talk about. They wouldn’t be clinging to the hostages. They have directly and deliberately caused the deaths of 23,000 people, unsuspecting people trying to live from day to day, unaware (but maybe not) that their neighbour is going to launch an attack and could attract a response.

If they attacked from unpopulated areas they wouldn’t last five minutes, as they well know. Israel could wipe Rafah out overnight but the fact they haven’t is due to trying to pinpoint targets, as they did with the operation that eliminated 27 known and named terrorists in a command centre in a school. Hamas information ministry of course immediately issued inflated casualty numbers, another thing that’s never questioned.

Hamas could stop this war today, by giving back the hostages. Why don’t they?

 

[Zidane98]

Well by this logic, the Palestinian people would be responding to the ongoing and repeated attacks being conducted against them by the terrorist organisation that is the IDF.

Has the IDF being officially classified as a terrorist organisation?

Hamas has been officially classified by the following entities & states as a terrorist organisation


European Union, Japan & Argentina notable neutral states on this list.

Which states have officially designated IDF as a terrorist organisatiion?

 

[Zidane98]

Walz gets it spot on