Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[Jazny]

Hopefully the first option

I get your point that there is nothing to stop a similar group to Hamas from forming and winning a future election. I don't know how it could work, but maybe put something in the constitution of both Israel and the new palestinian state that recognises each other's sovereignty and makes it illegal in both countries for political parties to pursue actions to undermine one another. I have no idea if such a thing can be achieved in practise though, but it could give a legal way to prevent far right parties in both countries having any legitimacy if they openly pursue conflict with the other.

 

[ZEV]

Trying to 'but Hamas' every single discussion is why you keep ending up having these arguments over, and over, and over. Because it didn't start with Hamas, and it won't end with Hamas if nothing else changes.

You continue to ignore the fact that the IRCG weaponises and manipulates the population of Gaza into their war against Jews and that ongoing manipulation has had severe radicalisation effects and is a barrier to the peace process.

It's not just Hamas, its also PIJ, Jaysh al-Islam, Jaysh al-Umma, Jund Ansar Allah, al Tahwid wal Jihad and all the other salafi terror groups in Gaza.

 

[faible]

You continue to ignore the fact that the IRCG weaponises and manipulates the population of Gaza into their war against Jews and that ongoing manipulation has had severe radicalisation effects and is a barrier to the peace process.

It's not just Hamas, its also PIJ, Jaysh al-Islam, Jaysh al-Umma, Jund Ansar Allah, al Tahwid wal Jihad and all the other salafi terror groups in Gaza.

Ignoring it? Seems like I flagged exactly what was happening:

Remove the conditions that lead to the arising of groups like Hamas - and particularly their ability to recruit disenfranchised people to their cause - and it'll go a long way to improving the security of Israel.

 

[ZEV]

Ignoring it? Seems like I flagged exactly what was happening:

Salafi Jihadi groups believe in an extremist pure form of Islam.

That means no Jews, no Christians, no Hindu's etc etc anywhere and the violent duty to enforce it.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Why would Israel agree to this?

Return of all hostages held in Gaza plus remains to Israel without delay

Let’s see if this can be achieved FIRST. Everything else is moot till then.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Surely relative peace , no further wars is a pretty strong incentive.

Going back to the status quo of oppression followed by terror attacks is good for nobody other than the likes of Iran.

Who are orchestrating all of this.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Remove the conditions that lead to the arising of groups like Hamas - and particularly their ability to recruit disenfranchised people to their cause - and it'll go a long way to improving the security of Israel.

How do you do that?

 

[faible]

How do you do that?

It's not really my job to solve it, but here's some things I think you shouldn't do if you don't want violent insurrection:

Step 1: don't run a multi decade occupation, resulting in a stateless peoples' with nothing to lose.
Step 2: don't commit crimes against humanity.
Step 3: don't commit war crimes.
Step 4: don't violate IHL and IHRL.

 

[faible]

Salafi Jihadi groups believe in an extremist pure form of Islam.

That means no Jews, no Christians, no Hindu's etc etc anywhere and the violent duty to enforce it.

You appear to keep missing a pretty key point:

particularly their ability to recruit disenfranchised people to their cause

 

[Jazny]

It's not really my job to solve it, but here's some things I think you shouldn't do if you don't want violent insurrection:

Step 1: don't run a multi decade occupation, resulting in a stateless peoples' with nothing to lose.
Step 2: don't commit crimes against humanity.
Step 3: don't commit war crimes.
Step 4: don't violate IHL and IHRL.

If you don't want a multi decade occupation, resulting in a stateless peoples' with nothing to lose

Step 1: Don't reject a two state solution every time its been proposed
Step 2: Don't start multiple wars trying to eliminate Israel and lose every single time
Step 3: Don't continually launch terrorist attacks against Israel
Step 4: don't violate IHL and IHRL

 

[faible]

If you don't want a multi decade occupation, resulting in a stateless peoples' with nothing to lose

Step 1: Don't reject a two state solution every time its been proposed
Step 2: Don't start multiple wars trying to eliminate Israel and lose every single time
Step 3: Don't continually launch terrorist attacks against Israel
Step 4: don't violate IHL and IHRL

Jazny and leaping to the defence of Israel

 

[_Mike_]

I get your point that there is nothing to stop a similar group to Hamas from forming and winning a future election. I don't know how it could work,

That has sort of been done before - Palestinian Liberation Organisation headed up by Yasser Arafat. Back during the Oslo Accord (Declaration of Principles between the Israeli and Palestinian people) the agreement set a basis of recognition between Israel and Palestine on the recognition and agreed responsibilities of the states.

- In 93 - Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin & Palestine Liberation Organization negotiator Mahmoud Abbas signed a Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements, commonly referred to as the “Oslo Accord,” at the White House

- Israel accepted the PLO as the representative of the Palestinians & the PLO renounced terrorism and recognized Israel’s right to exist in peace. Both sides agreed that a Palestinian Authority (PA) would be established and assume governing responsibilities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over a five-year period

- The US Clinton government and his advisors believed that a diplomatic breakthrough that Israel’s leaders would pull back from the Golan Heights as a concession, which they didnt.

- In November 1995, Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir, an Israeli who opposed the Oslo Accords on religious grounds. Rabin’s murder was followed by a string of terrorist attacks by Hamas, which undermined support for the Labor Party in Israel’s May 1996 elections. New Prime Minister Netanyahu hailed from the Likud Party, which had historically opposed Palestinian statehood and withdrawal from the occupied territories.


POST 2020

The accord expired early 2020 and the dereliction of the PLO, post Arafat who died in 2004, saw the accord recently ended. The accord itself gave control of occupied lands in the Gaza strip to the PLO, and in 2020 the president of the PLO declared the end of the agreement and understandings signed with Israel and the United States and turned over responsibility over the occupied territories back to Israel.

A part of the accord agreement held Israel to their agreement that they would not seek to occupy any more land, Israel would return some land however post Oslo accord in 2020 and with the return of Netanyahu resulted in plans were put in place to seize more territory. Israel breached the accord on multiple occasions. And for years, Abbas (current leader of the PLO) and others have threatened to leave them — a threat that has never been acted upon, until now.

Within the PLO and among the public, ending cooperation with Israel, especially on security, is very popular. Palestinians resent their government’s tight security cooperation with Israel, in particular, while it continues its military occupation and human rights abuses

Palestinian political institutions are extremely convoluted as a result of the Oslo process. Palestinians are governed or represented, however poorly, by the PLO, the PA, and the State of Palestine, all of which have unclear and overlapping roles and are headed by the same man, Mahmoud Abbas..

TL;DR

It's a shit show that needs to be sorted before any self rule can be settled, and with Netanyahu any vision of a self ruling Palestine is a dream. Netanyahu is the most right winged PM in Israel history and will not likely ever support a Palestinian self rule. Also, Hamas wants Mahmoud Abbas out as his party is at war with Hamas.

 

[Jazny]

Jazny and leaping to the defence of Israel

I can't help it! I was just on this really amazing Junket there last year and the sheets in the hotel I stayed in had the highest thread count and don't get me started on the aromatherapy sessions! I even got to roll in some mud at one point, I am forever compelled to defend Israel now!

 

[faible]

I can't help it! I was just on this really amazing Junket there last year and the sheets in the hotel I stayed in had the highest thread count and don't get me started on the aromatherapy sessions! I even got to roll in some mud at one point, I am forever compelled to defend Israel now!

The sad part is that you didn't even get the fun of the junket.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Jazny and leaping to the defence of Israel

Find someone that looks at you the way Jasny looks at Netanyahu

 

[Jazny]

Find someone that looks at you the way Jasny looks at Netanyahu

Find someone who looks at you the way Ghost Patrol looks at disinformation on twitter.

 

[Lebbo73]

Israel 'withdrawing fully from Gaza' isn't nearly the freedom that you make it seem like, and drastically misrepresents that conditions that Gazans were still living under.

So long as Gaza and the West Bank are under military occupation, groups like Hamas will continue to appear and find disenfranchised recruits. There's an entire generation of Palestinians right now being created that will have little family and nothing left to lose if Israel 'withdraw from Gaza' but the occupation simply continues. It's bleedingly obvious to everyone it seems, if you oppress people and give them little hope in life, you'll eventually see violent responses.

No, that doesn't make it 'ok'.

The Chinese and North Korean’s must like oppression based on this logic.

 

[faible]

The Chinese and North Korean’s must like oppression based on this logic.

Except the Occupied Palestinian Territories aren't Israel. Good try though, C-

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

True, you need leadership in the region to recognise Israel and renounce constant terrorism against Israel too. It's the only solution for peace, otherwise wars and security blockades will continue forever.

Israel have been terrorising Palestinians for 75 years. Israel was borne of terrorism. Zionists imported terrorism to the Levant.

If you don't want a multi decade occupation, resulting in a stateless peoples' with nothing to lose

Step 1: Don't reject a two state solution every time its been proposed
Step 2: Don't start multiple wars trying to eliminate Israel and lose every single time
Step 3: Don't continually launch terrorist attacks against Israel
Step 4: don't violate IHL and IHRL

Back to your nonsense talking points.

 

[Jazny]

Israel have been terrorising Palestinians for 75 years. Israel was borne of terrorism. Zionists imported terrorism to the Levant.



Back to your nonsense talking points.

Reality sucks I guess if you want to make zionists out to be the boogie man. The pesky history books just don't suit the narrative you wish to be true.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Reality sucks I guess if you want to make zionists out to be the boogie man. The pesky history books just don't suit the narrative you wish to be true.

You haven't read the history books.

 

[Bostonian]

You haven't read the history books.

I have. It's all that bloke Mu's fault.

 

[Kurve]

I have. It's all that bloke Mu's fault.

Who's Mu?

 

[Bostonian]

Who's Mu?

"During the life of the prophet Muhammed, he conquered Mecca and Arabia. After the prophet's death, the Caliphs conquered the entire Persian empire and much of the Byzantine. The countries they conquered include Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, and much of Afghanistan and Baluchistan."

Changed the region and conversely the world in a huge way.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

"During the life of the prophet Muhammed, he conquered Mecca and Arabia. After the prophet's death, the Caliphs conquered the entire Persian empire and much of the Byzantine. The countries they conquered include Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, and much of Afghanistan and Baluchistan."

Changed the region and conversely the world in a huge way.

That was long after the chosen people had been turfed out.