Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[Zidane98]

Talk about embarrassing yourself! Turkey hosts US nuclear missiles, as do several other NATO members. They don't have nuclear weapons. But maybe they'll convince USA to let them borrow them for an attack on Israel?

Israel has nuclear weapons, Iran doesn't. Fact. Furthermore, Iran's nuclear development program was destroyed by Israel. Iran and Egypt don't have much luck attacking and defending themselves against Israel, in spite of their military might!

No, it isn't a fact that Israel has nuclear weapons.

Go ahead and list what types of nukes Israel has, their locations, their delivery system. This should be fun.

Iran does posess far superior cruise missile technology, this is a fact. It also possesses all the means necessary to enrich uranium. Israel has no such facilities.

None of this changes the fact that Iran, Turkey & Egypt are militarily superior to Israel which makes.a mockery of your demonstrably false claim that Israel is the most powerful nation militarily in the Middle East.

1.01 odds that you'll continue to double down on this.

 

[jason_recliner]

No, it isn't a fact that Israel has nuclear weapons.

Go ahead and list what types of nukes Israel has, their locations, their delivery system. This should be fun.

Iran does posess far superior cruise missile technology, this is a fact. It also possesses all the means necessary to enrich uranium. Israel has no such facilities.

None of this changes the fact that Iran, Turkey & Egypt are militarily superior to Israel which makes.a mockery of your demonstrably false claim that Israel is the most powerful nation militarily in the Middle East.

1.01 odds that you'll continue to double down on this.

Yes, surely Iran's devastatingly effective cruise missiles, none of which have ever made it into Israeli territory, are superior to the Wind Demon.

You know how you were wrong about Turkey? You're wrong about everything else you're posting, too. Military power is not measured by the number of troops, outdated missiles, and barely operable 1970s fighter aircraft a country claims to be able to deploy.

Want a laugh? Google "Iranian stealth fighter".

You clearly don't understand the effort required to progress from enriching uranium to possessing nuclear weapons capability, or why Israel has no need to enrich their own uranium. And how would I or anybody not cleared know where Israel's nukes are? WTF?!?!?!

 

[SuperSub17]

Also it's telling while the US pushes for cewse fire resolutions , sends over $10 billion in humanitarian aid to Gaza and has reduced weapon deliveries to Israel you incorrectly and falsely claim it is them who support Israel unconditionally.

This is a laughably bad take (if you’re even being serious), given the absolute deluge of economic and political support the US has provided Israel - pretty much continuously over the last 75 years.

“Pushing for ceasefires” after vetoing every motion under the sun is also an interesting stance to take. To put this down to “a trope trotted out by Hamas” is taking the piss.

 

[Kurve]

Police have special powers from today and through these expected anti war protests, they can search any cars and remove anybody wearing a mask.

Police form ring of steel around weapons expo as protesters descend

www.9news.com.au

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Ah yes, must protect the warmongers!

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Police have special powers from today and through these expected anti war protests, they can search any cars and remove anybody wearing a mask.

Police form ring of steel around weapons expo as protesters descend

www.9news.com.au

At long last!

 

[Zidane98]

Yes, surely Iran's devastatingly effective cruise missiles, none of which have ever made it into Israeli territory, are superior to the Wind Demon.

You know how you were wrong about Turkey? You're wrong about everything else you're posting, too. Military power is not measured by the number of troops, outdated missiles, and barely operable 1970s fighter aircraft a country claims to be able to deploy.

Want a laugh? Google "Iranian stealth fighter".

You clearly don't understand the effort required to progress from enriching uranium to possessing nuclear weapons capability, or why Israel has no need to enrich their own uranium. And how would I or anybody not cleared know where Israel's nukes are? WTF?!?!?!

Middle East Military Strength (2024)

Ranking the military powers of the Middle East region by country, from strongest to weakest.

www.globalfirepower.com

Israel is the 4th most powerful nation militarily I the ME.

Your claim that Israel is superior to Iran militarily is absolutely false. Moreover you know it is false hence why you brought yo ridiculous whataboutisms about Saudi Arabia (bizarre) and nuclear weapons which are a total non factor in the ME.

Also your claim about Iranian missile technology is delusional and going off your previous claims, probably deliberately dishonest.

Iran is supplying Russia cruise missiles to bombard Ukraine with.



Their ballistic missiles are miles in front of Israel. It's not even close.[/QUOTE]

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

The UN report from the ohchr which found no evidence that helicopters fired on vehicles around the nova festival,

224. In relation to the Nova site, several reports claimed that Israeli helicopters were present at the Nova site and may have shot at targets on the ground, including civilian vehicles. The Commission verified the presence of at least eight attack helicopters in the area of Otef Aza at various times on 7 October, with one or two helicopters present over the Nova festival site in the mid-morning hours.

225. A report in Israeli publication Haaretz claimed that, after the attack, Israeli Security Forces southern command identified 77 car wrecks which had been shot by Israeli tanks, helicopters or drones. A similar allegation was made in an investigative report by an Israeli news publication, stating that, once the first indications of a mass abduction incident were received by Israeli Security Forces, at around noon on 7 October, a Hannibal Directive was issued directing pilots and other Israeli Security Forces personnel to target all vehicles returning to Gaza that day.

Now you're relying on some weasel words here - OHCHR couldn't confirm whether the helicopters directed fire at the vehicles. That of course doesn't mean it didn't happen - in fact how could they possibly confirm that since they were barred from even entering Israel - but it seems that's good enough for you to declare it didn't happen. Really disappointing that you fall for standard Israeli tactics here.

The Office of the SRSG-SVC couldn't confirm evidence of CRSV on Oct 7th - but you're still very quick to declare it was widespread and systemic. Strange how that works.

There are zero grounds for believing friendly fire was even widespread on Oct 7th, let alone a directive to fire upon vehicles known to be carrying hostages.

Yes, we've already seen through your technicality here also. The fact they weren't certain the vehicles carried hostages doesn't really absolve them of the killing of their own. I do wonder why you care so much about this point.

223. The Commission documented strong indications that the ‘Hannibal Directive’ was used in several instances on 7 October, harming Israelis at the same time as striking Palestinian militants.

Strong indications =/= zero grounds, I would have thought? It seems the OHCHR report doesn't really care for your civilian/military distinction either?

226. A video statement by an Israeli Security Forces tank driver, viewed by the Commission, confirms that at least one individual tank team knowingly applied the ‘Hannibal Directive’ that day. In a statement given to an Israeli news channel, a tank driver and commander stated that they targeted two Toyota vehicles with militants and Israelis.

227. The Commission verified information indicating that, in at least two other cases, Israeli Security Forces counter-offensive actions resulted in harm to and the killing of Israeli civilians and, in one of the cases, the actions were undertaken with clear knowledge of this risk. According to the Commission’s investigation, in these two cases at least 14 Israeli civilians were likely killed as a result of Israeli Security Forces fire: one woman was killed by helicopter fire while being taken from kibbutz Nir Oz to Gaza by militants and the other 13 were likely killed by tank shelling and crossfire in kibbutz Be’eri.

It should be troubling to a rational person if your evidence for thinking otherwise comes from quote farming a few statements on a podcast or an interview, none of which support the idea that you espouse anyway, and what GP thinks an apache attack looks like.

Funny, that's really the only investigation OHCHR were able to do. Examine reports and speak to witnesses. Yes it's the definitive record of events according to you.

8. The Commission faced several challenges in its investigation into acts committed in Israel on 7 October. Israeli officials have publicly announced on several occasions Israel’s refusal to cooperate with the Commission’s investigation into acts committed by Hamas Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades and other Palestinian armed groups against Israelis

9. Israeli officials not only refused to cooperate with the Commission’s investigation but also reportedly barred medical professionals and others from being in contact with the Commission after it approached medical professionals in Israel in December 2023. The Commission was not able to visit the sites of the violations as the Israeli Government has prevented it accessing Israel.

2. The Commission sent four requests for information to Israel and one request to the State of Palestine. Israel did not respond. The State of Palestine provided the Commission with information. The Commission submitted six requests for access to Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Israel persists in not responding to the Commission’s requests for access to its territory and in preventing access to the Occupied Palestinian Territory. The Commission considers that Israel is obstructing its investigations into events on and since 7 October 2023, both in Israel and in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. The State of Palestine has indicated that it would welcome a visit by the Commission.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

No, it isn't a fact that Israel has nuclear weapons.

Oh lawd.

 

[jason_recliner]

First Iran has better cruise missiles, now they have better ballistic missiles. Maybe they do, who cares? It's like saying they have better biplanes. Their ballistic missiles are almost 100% ineffective against the little battler Israel.

Iran is supplying Russia cruise missiles to bombard Ukraine with.

Wooowwwwwweeeee!!! And how's that working out for Russia?

Ok, I was trolled, ya got me. You're too funny.

 

[Jazny]

Now you're relying on some weasel words here - OHCHR couldn't confirm whether the helicopters directed fire at the vehicles. That of course doesn't mean it didn't happen

Is there a single reason I should believe that it did? Where are all the witnesses to this? Why on earth would we believe it, there is literally nothing to suggest it happened.

What you have done is start with narrative first, evidence later. I go with evidence first, and I don't care about narrative at all. So what evidence do we actually have? Nothing really. 14 suspected victims of IDF friendly fire that could be interepreted as the Hannibal Directive in action on Oct 7th, the majority of which the IDF claim were killed by AK-47 fire. A couple of claims on a podcast or interview that if you squint your eyes and believe hard enough, you could kind of interpret the way you want to. And Ghost Patrol's expert ballistic testimony based on images he saw on twitter.

From this, I am expected to believe that Israel was flying around in attack helicopters on October 7th shooting up their own civilians like crazy, and ever since they have been covering it up. Cool story.

Next.

 

[Zidane98]

First Iran has better cruise missiles, now they have better ballistic missiles. Maybe they do, who cares? It's like saying they have better biplanes. Their ballistic missiles are almost 100% ineffective against the little battler Israel.


Wooowwwwwweeeee!!! And how's that working out for Russia?

Ok, I was trolled, ya got me. You're too funny.

They also are better militarily than Israel overall, something you like to ignore after previous claims.

Iran are a leader in attack drones (the Russians also get these from the Iranians ) and cruise / ballistic missiles. In terms of an Iran / Israel conflict these would be vital as Israel isn't going to be able to send fighter jets all the way to Iran & back.

What do you believe Russia offers in return to Iran for supplying them with cruise / ballistic missiles to bombard Ukraine with?

Also nice to see you play down the last attempt by the Iranians to obliterate Israel in a blitz of ballistic missiles / drones.. Cost Israel something like a billion dollars plus to prevent a civilian massacre.

No wonder you are so against the US supplying Iron Dome.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Is there a single reason I should believe that it did? Where are all the witnesses to this? Why on earth would we believe it, there is literally nothing to suggest it happened.

Um yeah all the quotes and testimony and OHCHR report? Are you just not reading the quoted parts of my post?

Multiple sources state the directive was given in at least 3 different locations!

You don't believe Ronen Bergman?

השעות הראשונות של השבת השחורה • 7 ימים • ידיעות אחרונות

בבוקר 7 באוקטובר נרשמו כמה מפרקי הגבורה וההקרבה המרשימים בתולדות המדינה, אבל גם סדרה ארוכה של כשלים, תקלות וכאוס בצבא. תחקיר "7 ימים" משרטט את השעות הראשונות של השבת השחורה, וחושף: בבור הפיקוד בקריה היו עיוורים לגמרי ונאלצו להתעדכן מערוצי חמאס בטלגרם. בפיקוד דרום שיחררו פקודות מיושנות ולא...

w.ynet.co.il

We're just going to say that without an IDF announcement, none of these people were Israeli?

What you have done is start with narrative first, evidence later. I go with evidence first, and I don't care about narrative at all. So what evidence do we actually have? Nothing really. 14 suspected victims of IDF friendly fire that could be interepreted as the Hannibal Directive in action on Oct 7th, the majority of which the IDF claim were killed by AK-47 fire. A couple of claims on a podcast or interview that if you squint your eyesand want to believe hard enough, you could kind of interpret the way you want to. And Ghost Patrol's expert ballistic testimony based on images he saw on twitter.

From this, I am expected to believe that Israel was flying around in attack helicopters on October 7th shooting up their own civilians like crazy, and ever since they have been covering it up. Cool story.

Nope. Next.

I'm not sure why you're pushing so hard on this one - like you said it was chaos and it's crazy there wasn't more friendly fire.

I don't think anyone is claiming it was deliberate, or some sort of conspiracy.

 

[Jazny]

I don't think anyone is claiming it was deliberate, or some sort of conspiracy.

So if it wasn't deliberate what has the hannibal directive got to do with it? That's just called friendly fire. You don't need the directive to shoot at enemy combatants.

Do you believe GP is about right in thinking ISF killed 200+ Israelis?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

So if it wasn't deliberate what has the hannibal directive got to do with it? That's just called friendly fire. You don't need the directive to shoot at enemy combatants.

Do you believe GP is about right in thinking ISF killed 200+ Israelis?

The directive was given, there can be no doubt, but what the directive means these days no one seems to know.

I don't believe if they had known 100% they were killing Israelis they would have done it.

But if they can tell themselves its just Palestinian terrorists in that car, light it up, I don't think there was much hesitation.

I'm not going to give an estimate, I can't possibly know. Most telling for me were the early casualty figures which came out, which had the Israeli deaths up around 2,000.

Then they announced ~600 of those were actually dead Palestinians. It wasn't Hamas killing themselves that's for sure, so that's a lot of KIA that the Israelis had no ID for while they were in their crosshairs.

 

[jason_recliner]

.

Iran are a leader in attack drones (the Russians also get these from the Iranians ) and cruise / ballistic missiles. In terms of an Iran / Israel conflict these would be vital as Israel isn't going to be able to send fighter jets all the way to Iran & back.

You're serious, aren't you,!

Iran isn't a leader in anything after several decades of crippling sanctions (did you check out that 'stealth' 'fifth gen' fighter of theirs?). How many of their drones and missiles struck Israel? How much damage to military (or civilian) infrastructure was achieved?

How many Israeli jets has Iran taken down when they weren't flying all the way to Iran and back

With their stated aim of destroying Israel and their military supremacy, why do you think they haven't inflicted any damage on Israel?

And in case anybody is stupid enough to take your insinuations and strawmans seriously, I am against USA supplying military aid for free, freeing up Israeli funds for offensive weapons currently used to commit atrocities and war crimes. Obviously Israel needs and should have defence against aerial attacks.

 

[DapperDon]

Is there a single reason I should believe that it did? Where are all the witnesses to this? Why on earth would we believe it, there is literally nothing to suggest it happened.

What you have done is start with narrative first, evidence later. I go with evidence first, and I don't care about narrative at all. So what evidence do we actually have? Nothing really. 14 suspected victims of IDF friendly fire that could be interepreted as the Hannibal Directive in action on Oct 7th, the majority of which the IDF claim were killed by AK-47 fire. A couple of claims on a podcast or interview that if you squint your eyes and believe hard enough, you could kind of interpret the way you want to. And Ghost Patrol's expert ballistic testimony based on images he saw on twitter.

From this, I am expected to believe that Israel was flying around in attack helicopters on October 7th shooting up their own civilians like crazy, and ever since they have been covering it up. Cool story.

Next.

Head
Sand

 

[Boston tiger]

You're serious, aren't you,!

Iran isn't a leader in anything after several decades of crippling sanctions. How many of their drones and missiles struck Israel? How much damage to military (or civilian) infrastructure was achieved?

How many Israeli jets has Iran taken down when they weren't flying all the way to Iran and back

With their stated aim of destroying Israel and their military supremacy, why do you think they haven't inflicted any damage on Israel?

And in case anybody is stupid enough to take your insinuations and strawmans seriously, I am against USA supplying military aid for free, freeing up Israeli funds for offensive weapons currently used to commit atrocities and war crimes. Obviously Israel needs and should have defence against aerial attacks.

So do want to even things up a bit between those that want the destruction of Israel and those that don’t ?

 

[jason_recliner]

So do want to even things up a bit between those that want the destruction of Israel and those that don’t ?

The explanation of my rationale couldn't have been clearer, more concise or more obvious. If you're still having trouble following...

 

[Kurve]

Someone was locked up in prison for chucking a nob of sand at Ben Gvir on the beach. Seriously.

 

[DapperDon]

Someone was locked up in prison for chucking a nob of sand at Ben Gvir on the beach. Seriously.

Definitely not a facist government

 

[jason_recliner]

Someone was locked up in prison for chucking a nob of sand at Ben Gvir on the beach. Seriously.

Luckily she wasn't Palestinian or she might have been shot.

 

[Zidane98]

You're serious, aren't you,!

Iran isn't a leader in anything after several decades of crippling sanctions. How many of their drones and missiles struck Israel? How much damage to military (or civilian) infrastructure was achieved?

How many Israeli jets has Iran taken down when they weren't flying all the way to Iran and back

With their stated aim of destroying Israel and their military supremacy, why do you think they haven't inflicted any damage on Israel?

And in case anybody is stupid enough to take your insinuations and strawmans seriously, I am against USA supplying military aid for free, freeing up Israeli funds for offensive weapons currently used to commit atrocities and war crimes. Obviously Israel needs and should have defence against aerial attacks.

Lol, you are still continuing with your utter falsehoods. You're hilarious. And notable how you ignore the fact that Russia, the 2nd most powerful military in the world, relies on Iran for supply of cruise/ballistic missiles and attack drones. It is of no surprise at all you have no rebuttal to this fact. This is why you've tried to ignore it.

Once again, for the 10th time, it is a fact that Iran is superior to Israel militarily. End of story. Even though you try to ignore it I'll reference here again global military strength rankings:

2024 Military Strength Ranking

Ranking the nations of the world based on current available firepower.

www.globalfirepower.com

If you cared to actually check the rankings you'll find that Israel isn't even above Australia and we're not a nation has any local conflicts. I'm sure you won't let facts get in the way of your rhetoric though.


Nice how you also play down Iran launching a mass attack on Israel that cost over $1 billion for Israel to defend its citizens from a massacre. Almost like you're disappointed it didn't succeed.

I'm sure Iran would love to send their entire arsenal of cruise / ballsitic missiles Israel's way. That would overwhelm Israel's air defenses easily plus Iran is easily able to launch thousands of attack drones.

If they weren't a pariah state (funny how all of the states on Hamas' sides are run by human rights abusing dictators) I believe they absolutely would go down this path but doing so now would leave Iran cut off and isolated from the rest of the world (apart from a few supporters in this thread who would be cheering).

 

[Zidane98]

Head
Sand

Unlike yourself I am prepared to look at the facts only here.

HRW report:

“I Can’t Erase All the Blood from My Mind”

The 236-page report, “‘I Can’t Erase All the Blood from My Mind’: Palestinian Armed Groups’ October 7 Assault on Israel,” documents several dozen cases of serious violations of international humanitarian law by Palestinian armed groups at nearly all the civilian attack sites on October 7. These...

www.hrw.org

There have only been a small number of civilians confirmed killed in crossfire.



Also, in an active terrorist incident, sometimes a soldier would have to make the difficult decision on whether taking out a couple of terrorists who hold a hostage who would go on to kill more civilians is justified. I'd hate to be in that position as a solider, you have only moments to make that call.


No different to what happens if terrorists were ti hijack a plane and attempt to crash it into a major capital city in order to cause thousands of deaths.


In that instance shooting down that plane would be absolutely lawful even if it meant the unfortunate death of civilians on board. That wouldn't be an example of "hannibal" at all.


It is quite ridiculous some posters are on here trying to use a small amount of civilian deaths caught up as collateral between the IDF and Hamas terrorists as a gotcha that Hamas didn't really kill that many people, it was really the IDF.

 

[jason_recliner]

Lol, you are still continuing with your utter falsehoods. You're hilarious. And notable how you ignore the fact that Russia, the 2nd most powerful military in the world, relies on Iran for supply of cruise/ballistic missiles and attack drones. It is of no surprise at all you have no rebuttal to this fact. This is why you've tried to ignore it.

Once again, for the 10th time, it is a fact that Iran is superior to Israel militarily. End of story. Even though you try to ignore it I'll reference here again global military strength rankings:

2024 Military Strength Ranking

Ranking the nations of the world based on current available firepower.

www.globalfirepower.com

If you cared to actually check the rankings you'll find that Israel isn't even above Australia and we're not a nation has any local conflicts. I'm sure you won't let facts get in the way of your rhetoric though.


Nice how you also play down Iran launching a mass attack on Israel that cost over $1 billion for Israel to defend its citizens from a massacre. Almost like you're disappointed it didn't succeed.

I'm sure Iran would love to send their entire arsenal of cruise / ballsitic missiles Israel's way. That would overwhelm Israel's air defenses easily plus Iran is easily able to launch thousands of attack drones.

If they weren't a pariah state (funny how all of the states on Hamas' sides are run by human rights abusing dictators) I believe they absolutely would go down this path but doing so now would leave Iran cut off and isolated from the rest of the world (apart from a few supporters in this thread who would be cheering).

It's understandable you continue to fail to address any of my points as you are unable. That's okay - continue to post your funny little bollocks (how about posting that little link again, as if that proves your ignorance), falsehoods and self-contradictions. Iran is a pariah state, eh? Do you know what that means? How about, they are "cut off and isolated from the rest of the world". i.e. they would have very little to lose by waging war against a militarily inferior state or non-state actor, especially if they considered that destruction of that state was in their interests. It's weird that they don't, and that all of their attacks using their world leading weaponry are ineffective, isn't it?

Actually, if you understood anything about modern warfare, and military technology and power, you'd understand how this could be so. I'm not convinced you even know what "ballistic" means (and, hence, why such weapons, even when hypersonic, achieve very little in military gains against an advanced defence force like the IDF).