Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[faible]

People would have said the same about Malaysia, Indonesia too (although it's far more majority Islam). It would be a challenge for sure and would take a couple of generations to smooth out but it would be worth it IMO. Even better than a two-state solution.

I mean if they could make it happen, great. The less religious ethno-states in the world, the better IMO.

 

[faible]

Arab influence

Well, that didn't take you long.

 

[sherb]

Six UN workers were killed in an Israeli air strike on a Gaza school compound​

Six United Nations workers and several others were killed in an Israeli air strike on a school compound sheltering hundreds of displaced Palestinians in central Gaza.

The Al-Jaouni school is one of dozens that the agency runs and has been used as a shelter since the breakout of the war.

"It is home to around 12,000 displaced people, mainly women and children," the agency said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09...li-air-strike-killed-six-un-workers/104344132

Just another day at the office for Israel.

How brave are UN workers, and the other various assorted aid workers, who are prepared to put themselves in a situation where they know that Israel is happy to more than happy to murder them.

 

[Zidane98]

Lol that's not a report on the Gaza War by the International Association of Genocide Scholars.

It is a report by Sarah Brown on the actions of Hamas. She is a member of the International Association of Genocide Scholars - it is a report by the IAGS.

It's a 3 page policy brief by a single American, referencing an old Hamas charter.

Except in the investigation by the IAGS it references public statements made by Hamas representatives after the Oct 7 attack that were found to be genocidal. This is not my opinion, this is the findings of the IAGS report on Hamas actions since declaring war on Israel.

There's nothing genocidal about removing the state of Israel, I tend to agree that's it's a failed experiment and needs to go, a murderous rogue ethnostate powered by racial and religious supremacy. No nation has a right to exist.

Whether or whether you agree with the state of Israel is irrelevant. The facts are Israel is a \state and that won't ever change. What is important is ensuring that Palestinians also have their own state, as was agreed by Israel in 1948 and that both states learn to live alongside each other, as per the original UN agreement.

 

[Zidane98]

Large scale attack on Gailee area by Hezbollah

 

[jason_recliner]

Large scale attack

Damn! Must be pretty serious to justify the proportionality of Israel's destruction of Gaza and endless murders of innocent civilians! How many deaths?

 

[faible]

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/09/middleeast/israel-gaza-united-nations-convoy-intl-latam/index.html

 

[ZEV]

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/09/middleeast/israel-gaza-united-nations-convoy-intl-latam/index.html

Perfect VI.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Perfect VI.

You think terrorising a UN convey is perfect?

 

[sherb]

You think terrorising a UN convey is perfect?

Anyone is fair game to Israel - UN employees, journos, aid workers, hospital employees, etc.

 

[faible]

Anyone is fair game to Israel - UN employees, journos, aid workers, hospital employees, etc.

The UN said mean things about them, they're the enemy now I guess.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

They don't.

I'm just asking someone who thinks Israel should be disbanded and they all get sent off somewhere else.

They don't need to go anywhere, they just need to give up their religious extremism and delusions of racial supremacy.

Look at this demented **** filmed a day ago in Rafah

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

It is a report by Sarah Brown on the actions of Hamas. She is a member of the International Association of Genocide Scholars - it is a report by the IAGS.

Except in the investigation by the IAGS it references public statements made by Hamas representatives after the Oct 7 attack that were found to be genocidal. This is not my opinion, this is the findings of the IAGS report on Hamas actions since declaring war on Israel.

Whether or whether you agree with the state of Israel is irrelevant. The facts are Israel is a \state and that won't ever change. What is important is ensuring that Palestinians also have their own state, as was agreed by Israel in 1948 and that both states learn to live alongside each other, as per the original UN agreement.

It's not a report on anything, stop embarrassing yourself.

If Israel agreed to two states in 1948, why did they go on a violent massacre spree among Palestinian villages, including in territory earmarked for a Palestinian state?

 

[Zidane98]

It's not a report on anything, stop embarrassing yourself.

If Israel agreed to two states in 1948, why did they go on a violent massacre spree among Palestinian villages, including in territory earmarked for a Palestinian state?

You must have missed the entire Arab league rejecting the 1948 peace plan, surrounding the state of Israel and declaring war on it.

 

[Bostonian]

They don't need to go anywhere, they just need to give up their religious extremism and delusions of racial supremacy.

Look at this demented **** filmed a day ago in Rafah

So what you're saying is Israel will need to give up something the Palestinians never will?

This kind of rhetoric is spouted in Islamic nations all the time.

 

[ZEV]

There is nothing about this situation that says "normal war". It's a completely one-sided assault - obliteration even - by one side on the other.

Arab armed forces have always been ineffective, this outcome was always going to happen.

Surrender and returning the hostages would end this in an instant.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

You must have missed the entire Arab league rejecting the 1948 peace plan, surrounding the state of Israel and declaring war on it.

This is how you answer a question?

Zidane accuses me of missing something, oh dear. What you have missed could fill a library.

The Arab League never declared war on Israel. Who told you that?

Token forces of surrounding countries entered Palestine 14th May 1948. after Israel had already cleansed 250,000 Palestinians from their homes and land. Governments of these countries had little choice, as their own peoples were shocked at the plight of their neighbours at the hands of the Zionists.

Haganah operations under Plan Dalet had been underway for weeks before this incursion. Zionist attacks started months before that again.

Please take the time to actually read something on this subject. These are the actual declarations of those Arab countries. I think you'll find they're eminently reasonable, despite what you've been conditioned to believe. There was no attempt to destroy Israel, or wipe out the Jews. The continued propagation of this narrative to justify the 76 year slow genocide of the Palestinians, when it's so easy to find the truth, is absolutely shameful.

https://www.gov.il/en/pages/arab-league-declaration-on-the-invasion-of-palestine

 

[Jazny]

Please take the time to actually read something on this subject. These are the actual declarations of those Arab countries. I think you'll find they're eminently reasonable, despite what you've been conditioned to believe. There was no attempt to destroy Israel, or wipe out the Jews. The continued propagation of this narrative to justify the 76 year slow genocide of the Palestinians, when it's so easy to find the truth, is absolutely shameful.

https://www.gov.il/en/pages/arab-league-declaration-on-the-invasion-of-palestine

Reading declarations of one side's historical figures or bodies is definitely the way to have a broad understanding of a conflict Reading Putin's declaration for his invasion of Ukraine, it all sounds so reasonable too. It was due to Western politician's aggressive expansion of NATO moving their military close to Russian borders, threatening Russia. And Ukraine was totally committing a genocide in the Donbass. Putin just had to do it. It's a special operation to de-Nazify Ukraine. It was really an act of self defense.

The truth of the conflicts preceding the creation of Israel and since are a lot more complex than either extreme of the debate wants to admit.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Reading declarations of one side's historical figures or bodies is definitely the way to have a broad understanding of a conflict Reading Putin's declaration for his invasion of Ukraine, it all sounds so reasonable too. It was due to Western politician's aggressive expansion of NATO moving their military close to Russian borders, threatening Russia. And Ukraine was totally committing a genocide in the Donbass. Putin just had to do it. It's a special operation to de-Nazify Ukraine. It was really an act of self defense.

The truth of the conflicts preceding the creation of Israel and since are a lot more complex than either extreme of the debate wants to admit.

Wow, thanks for all that. Bit defensive and hysterical for your usual style.

Zidane spouted some Zio soundbite nonsense, I corrected them. Which part of any of that is extreme?

Did you have anything relevant to add, or just happy going off on one?

 

[faible]

Arab armed forces have always been ineffective, this outcome was always going to happen.

Surrender and returning the hostages would end this in an instant.

End what?

The military occupation? The West Bank settlements?

Israel didn’t simply start oppressing the Palestinian people after October 7th. They just escalated it, drastically.

No, this does not condone the actions of Hamas either.

 

[Jazny]

Wow, thanks for all that. Bit defensive and hysterical for your usual style.

What was defensive or hysterical? Just pointing out that any regime in their declarations aren't going to say "hey for no good reason, because we are evil, we're just going to go and murder a bunch of people". Of course they are going to present a one sided justification for their actions, almost everyone does... Except for Hamas who refreshingly for brutal regimes, they just openly say they are terrorists with genocidal intent.

Zidane spouted some Zio soundbite nonsense, I corrected them. Which part of any of that is extreme?

You are on the extreme end of the debate. You constantly downplay any legitimate grievances Israel might have, ignore or downplay atrocities Hamas commit, accept as true almost every single anti-Israeli talking point, have on at least two occasions expressed support for what Hamas leaders have said with regards to justifying war crimes against Israel (though you backtracked slightly on further questioning both times), you seem conflicted on whether October 7th was morally justifiable, you seemed to think it was mostly legally justified (if it wasn't for the IDF approving the Nova festival location). You also tend to have conspiritorial thinking. These things put you on the extreme end of the debate, at least by Australian standards.

It doesn't mean you are a horrible person, or violent, or anything like that. Just really heavily biased when it comes to this issue.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

What was defensive or hysterical?

You went on an irrelevant tangent about Putin and Ukraine. Where did I suggest the Arab League declaration would give anyone a broad understanding of a conflict? Why did you feel the need to get involved at all?

You did nothing to actually address my post, though that is pretty standard I guess.

Just pointing out that any regime in their declarations aren't going to say "hey for no good reason, because we are evil, we're just going to go and murder a bunch of people". Of course they are going to present a one sided justification for their actions, almost everyone does... Except for Hamas who refreshingly for brutal regimes, they just openly say they are terrorists with genocidal intent.

Are you trying to say the Arab League are some evil organisation who murdered a bunch of people for no reason? If that is what you are trying to say, you're being ridiculous, but at least your post would make some misguided sense.

Are you denying any of the facts presented in said declaration? Give us something.

You are on the extreme end of the debate.

Try and stop meta posting for a minute, and focus on the content of the discussion you've decided to insert yourself into. I asked you what was extreme about what I posted - I didn't ask for another amateur psych analysis.

You constantly downplay any legitimate grievances Israel might have, ignore or downplay atrocities Hamas commit, accept as true almost every single anti-Israeli talking point

You're getting quite creative here, but it must be like looking in a mirror for you.

, have on at least two occasions expressed support for what Hamas leaders have said with regards to justifying war crimes against Israel (though you backtracked slightly on further questioning both times),

I told you multiple times I didn't watch the Sinwar video.

you seem conflicted on whether October 7th was morally justifiable

I believe Palestinian resistance is of course morally justified, though many events of that day crossed the line to immoral and horrific. I don't condone or excuse such behaviour. I do know humans are capable of horrendous things when they find themselves in a position of power over their tormentors.

I also don't believe it's fair to hold Palestinian resistance to moral standards Israeli occupiers have never held to.

, you seemed to think it was mostly legally justified (if it wasn't for the IDF approving the Nova festival location).

Palestinian resistance is of course legally justified, though many events of that day were not legal by any definition.

A music festival is not a valid target, and should never have been held between a concentration camp and a valid military target, the IDF base at Re'im.

If Palestinians had not been herded into pens for generations and subjected to blockade, and had access to drones and fighter jets, I'm sure they'd deliver their payloads on target remotely and dispassionately also. Unfortunately the means left to them require more personal delivery, and often directed at the only targets of opportunity available. This of course is labelled as terrorism.

Yourself and Zidane have lamented that Palestinians can't conduct more conventional military operations. This, while very amusing, is an unfortunate result of circumstances, not choice.

You also tend to have conspiritorial thinking.

A tendancy for conspiritorial thinking. This referencing my detailed posting on the United States and their activities? The post you couldn't summon a reply to?

Again you can't argue a point, so you opt for some posturing instead. You don't really have the knowledge nor intellect to pretend you're somehow superior, it's coming off a bit feeble.

These things put you on the extreme end of the debate, at least by Australian standards.

It doesn't mean you are a horrible person, or violent, or anything like that. Just really heavily biased when it comes to this issue.

You're really going to pretend you're some unimpeachable paragon of neutral virtue, aren't you. You certainly crack me up.

 

[Jazny]

You're getting quite creative here, but it must be like looking in a mirror for you.

Really? What extreme things have I posted. I would really love to know. I haven't excused atrocities, I havent denied credible rape allegations because simply because they conflict with want I want to believe, I haven't reposted fake twitter stories, I haven't alleged grand conspiracies, nor expressed support for the removal of an entire people, nor have I attempted to absolve one side or the other of guilt for atrocities.

I told you multiple times I didn't watch the Sinwar video.

No, sure, you just challenged people on on what he said without watching it. That's a normal thing to do. And as we will see, you basically agree with him anyway. You also expressed support for the Hamas sentiments layed out in the genocidal violence of October 7th article Zidane posted. You semi-retracted it, you only meant in minecraft.

I believe Palestinian resistance is of course morally justified, though many events of that day crossed the line to immoral and horrific. I don't condone or excuse such behaviour. I do know humans are capable of horrendous things when they find themselves in a position of power over their tormentors.

You say you don't excuse it, then your next sentence is an excuse.

If Palestinians had not been herded into pens for generations and subjected to blockade, and had access to drones and fighter jets, I'm sure they'd deliver their payloads on target remotely and dispassionately also. Unfortunately the means left to them require more personal delivery, and often directed at the only targets of opportunity available. This of course is labelled as terrorism.

This is basically what Sinwar said in the video you didn't watch. He justified indiscriminately launching rockets to kill Israeli civilians by saying his weapons aren't as good as Israel's. Another act of terrorism you say you don't excuse, but then excuse.

It's labelled as terrorism, because it's terrorism. I expect all my fellow war crime haters in faible and ghost patrol will be pushing back hard against you justifying war crimes.

Yourself and Zidane have lamented that Palestinians can't conduct more conventional military operations. This, while very amusing, is an unfortunate result of circumstances, not choice.

Absolutely. Every outgunned belligerent in history has just started targeting and killing random civilians of the opposed nation and held them hostage. It's just unfortunate.... not excusing terrorism.... but what can Hamas do apart from commit heinous war crimes? Poor Hamas.

A tendancy for conspiritorial thinking. This referencing my detailed posting on the United States and their activities? The post you couldn't summon a reply to?

No idea which post you are talking about or why I would need to summon a reply to it. I don't reply to a lot of stuff, how many conversations do you want running at a time? It's annoying, in future, pick your best topic, the one you really think I need to care about, and we can focus on that for awhile.

I am talking about your belief in Israel fabricating accounts of rape, covering up all the supposed incidents of friendly fire on October 7th, the IDF moving the Nova festival so Hamas would run around killing Israeli civilians giving a pretext for a war...

Again you can't argue a point, so you opt for some posturing instead. You don't really have the knowledge nor intellect to pretend you're somehow superior, it's coming off a bit feeble.

You're really going to pretend you're some unimpeachable paragon of neutral virtue, aren't you. You certainly crack me up.

lol who is talking about being superior? Whenever you say "you crack me up", you do sound panicked. Who cares about intelligence and superiority? Smart people can believe really stupid things. An average intelligence person with decent media literacy will probably form beliefs closer to reality than a person with 150 IQ who finds themself going deep into conspiracy rabbit holes.

 

[Zidane98]

I reckon a few in this thread went..

 

[Jazny]

I reckon a few in this thread went..

Where did she get that useful idiot starter kit?