Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[Demons09]

That's bs. Your propaganda is getting tiresome. You constantly intimate that arab children and civilians are terrorists and you support war crimes.

Propaganda eh you’re unhinged seek help.

 

[Kurve]

Was the 9 year old girl a terrorist too?

Were the 12 children murdered in the Majal Shams massacre terrorists?

Every child is an individual whose life is precious and irreplaceable.

Mostly I avoid the subject, when it ends up in a numbers game that point seems lost.

 

[Zidane98]

Every child is an individual whose life is precious and irreplaceable.

Mostly I avoid the subject, when it ends up in a numbers game that point seems lost.

Absolutely agree. Good post.

 

[sherb]

Who cares how they hit their targets they’re terrorists they got what they deserve you wont find any condemnation around the world except for ***** , fancy being outraged by terrorists getting blown away bit of irony there.

If you had bothered to read and comprehend Lunchlady Doris's post, his concern wasn't for the terrorists, it was for the innocent people caught up in Israel's attack.

 

[Kurve]

I think the only way this could be discriminate would be if Israel had strong intelligence that these pagers were going to Hezbollah combatants only. This is possible, not saying otherwise. But not enough is known publicly.

Even then they might need intelligence of the exact whereabouts of each pager at the moment of detonation for it to qualify as discriminate (proportionality is also a consideration here), but I don't know exactly how much level of confidence the commanders need for this.

Like IEDs used in Afghanistan aren't illegal by default even though they could be triggered by civilians or combatants, but if they are used in areas civilians are just as likely to be harmed as combatants, that would be textbook indiscriminate. I think the same might be able to be said about the pagers.

I don't know if this was discriminate or not, I can wait for more evidence, but there is only a thin window of a way it could be considered discriminate and a number of ways it might fail on this criteria. Best to wait for all information.

Nothing like this kind of mass attack has been seen before and I think even the experts are struggling to apply the correct interpretations to international laws. The standard responses aren't really dealing with it in any coherency imo.

As you say though, we don't have enough information.

I'd find it difficult to believe nobody in Hezbollah thought to pull one of those devices apart to see what was in them. Take a swab (they probably have them) stick one in an oven or the microwave and stand back. What's destroying one pager when they have 5,000? And they've had them since February.

I'd find it difficult to believe they didn't have some form of tracking in them as well.

Too many questions.

 

[faible]

A quick search can find no evidence of any doctors harmed by these devices. Do you have an example?

Death toll from Hezbollah pager explosions in Lebanon rises to 12

Lebanon’s health minister said two children and several healthcare workers were among the dead.

www.bbc.com

Lebanon’s health minister says the number of people killed when pagers used by members of the armed group Hezbollah exploded on Tuesday has risen to 12, including two children and four healthcare workers.

In any case, hospitals are a self run entity. Doctors work for the hospital, not for Hezbollah. Just as the same way that a doctor working at Box Hill hospital works for Box Hill Hospital, not the state government of victoria.

Hezbollah runs social services, including medical services. We don't actually know that all these pagers were with combatants. We do know some children (fairly safe to assume they're not combatants) and healthcare workers have died.

Box Hill is operated by Eastern Health which operates a number of sites, which would be approximately similar to Hezbollah operating a broad umbrella of social services. Not all 'Hezbollah' associated people are terrorists, and we don't know yet who all these pagers went to, was it just combatants or other Hezbollah associated people e.g. healthcare workers.

 

[faible]

I'd find it difficult to believe nobody in Hezbollah thought to pull one of those devices apart to see what was in them. Take a swab (they probably have them) stick one in an oven or the microwave and stand back. What's destroying one pager when they have 5,000? And they've had them since February.

I'd find it difficult to believe they didn't have some form of tracking in them as well.

I'd guess that they've been using pagers already and haven't had an issue, so when expanding it didn't think much of it.

I would think tracking would provide a much more obvious signal to find, there would need to be some element of GPS transmission (or similar) that I'd think would be pretty easy to pick-up with some kind of scanner.

 

[Jazny]

Nothing like this kind of mass attack has been seen before and I think even the experts are struggling to apply the correct interpretations to international laws. The standard responses aren't really dealing with it in any coherency imo.

True.

 

[Kurve]

I'd guess that they've been using pagers already and haven't had an issue, so when expanding it didn't think much of it.

That doesn't seem consistent with the levels of caution, even paranoia that had them dumping their phones in the first place.

I would think tracking would provide a much more obvious signal to find, there would need to be some element of GPS transmission (or similar) that I'd think would be pretty easy to pick-up with some kind of scanner.

If they were two way pagers, which I think they were, tracking is possible even easy. Same with the walkie-talkies, two way.

Important to find out imo because they may be using tech nobody knows anything about yet and it might not be long before it's on the loose, sold to the highest bidding friendly.

 

[Zidane98]

Death toll from Hezbollah pager explosions in Lebanon rises to 12

Lebanon’s health minister said two children and several healthcare workers were among the dead.

www.bbc.com

Hezbollah runs social services, including medical services. We don't actually know that all these pagers were with combatants. We do know some children (fairly safe to assume they're not combatants) and healthcare workers have died.

Box Hill is operated by Eastern Health which operates a number of sites, which would be approximately similar to Hezbollah operating a broad umbrella of social services. Not all 'Hezbollah' associated people are terrorists, and we don't know yet who all these pagers went to, was it just combatants or other Hezbollah associated people e.g. healthcare workers.

Which hospitals were these workers at and how did they die? Were they in possession of a hezbollah military pager? It is pretty clear that there are many, many pagers used by doctors that work for hospitals funded by Hezbollah and were not targeted. As with all civilian services.

Obviously children are non combatants and it is a tragedy they have died. In a perfect world you would have 0.00% collateral damage.

Hopefully it isn't in vain and prevents the next Majad Shams type Hezobllah massacre direct attack on children in Israel where a dozen children and nobody else were all murdered in the blink of an eye.

 

[jason_recliner]

That doesn't seem consistent with the levels of caution, even paranoia that had them dumping their phones in the first place.



If they were two way pagers, which I think they were, tracking is possible even easy. Same with the walkie-talkies, two way.

Important to find out imo because they may be using tech nobody knows anything about yet and it might not be long before it's on the loose, sold to the highest bidding friendly.

These are radio transmissions that would need to be triangulated to track. Even for Israel I don't think it's realistic that they can have hundreds of receivers within Lebanon actively triangulating thousands of signals.

 

[faible]

Which hospitals were these workers at and how did they die? Were they in possession of a hezbollah military pager? It is pretty clear that there are many, many pagers used by doctors that work for hospitals funded by Hezbollah and were not targeted. As with all civilian services.

I'm not the BBC, nor am I the Lebanese Health Minister. You asked, I gave you the source.

 

[Zidane98]

I'm not the BBC, nor am I the Lebanese Health Minister. You asked, I gave you the source.

I've done some more digging for you.


It appears the only death Hezbollah have attributed to a pager explosion is as such:




There are reports of a handful of healthcare workers fatalities from use of Hezbollah military pagers. There will obviously be an investigation to see if these casualties were also operatives for Hezbollah military.

 

[Zidane98]

These are radio transmissions that would need to be triangulated to track. Even for Israel I don't think it's realistic that they can have hundreds of receivers within Lebanon actively triangulating thousands of signals.

You would need GPS triangulation for an accurate position. Do pagers have GPS equipped these days?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I've done some more digging for you.


It appears the only death Hezbollah have attributed to a pager explosion is as such:


View attachment 2115536

There are reports of a handful of healthcare workers fatalities from use of Hezbollah military pagers. There will obviously be an investigation to see if these casualties were also operatives for Hezbollah military.

They are just pagers, some of which were used by Hezbollah.

Calling them Hezbollah pagers is Israeli propaganda, hasbara.

 

[Zidane98]

If these pagers are wifi equipped wifi triangulation is possible if enough wifi networks are within range.

 

[Zidane98]

They are just pagers, some of which were used by Hezbollah.

Calling them Hezbollah pagers is Israeli propaganda, hasbara.

They were purchased by and used by Hezbollah. You really do struggle with factual information don't you?

 

[SuperSub17]

In any case, hospitals are a self run entity. Doctors work for the hospital, not for Hezbollah. Just as the same way that a doctor working at Box Hill hospital works for Box Hill Hospital, not the state government of victoria.

I don’t know the structure of Lebanon’s healthcare, but that’s not true here. In your example Box Hill is run by Eastern Health, which is funded by Victoria’s Department of Health.

Most jobs at public hospitals are funded by the government.

 

[Zidane98]

Pretty clear the obvious thing for Hezbollah is to stand down all military action with Israel & call a truce. Escalating against Israel is not going to provide any benefit to Hezbollah as an organisation.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Pretty clear the obvious thing for Hezbollah is to stand down all military action with Israel & call a truce. Escalating against Israel is not going to provide any benefit to Hezbollah as an organisation.

Netanyahu should agree to a ceasefire and hostage deal. But for some reason you’d rather see him cling to power via escalation?

 

[Zidane98]

I don’t know the structure of Lebanon’s healthcare, but that’s not true here. In your example Box Hill is run by Eastern Health, which is funded by Victoria’s Department of Health.

Most jobs at public hospitals are funded by the government.

A doctor works for Eastern Health - not the state government of Victoria.

You'll find Eastern Health is an independent organisation with its own business name(s) & structure.

Dept of health providers funding (along with other sources). This is the state govt body.

 

[Zidane98]

Netanyahu should agree to a ceasefire and hostage deal. But for some reason you’d rather see him cling to power via escalation?

This would have to be the most predictable response from you of all time and absolutely flawed as always from yourself.

 

[SuperSub17]

A doctor works for Eastern Health - not the state government of Victoria.

You'll find Eastern Health is an independent organisation with its own business name(s) & structure.

Dept of health providers funding (along with other sources). This is the state govt body.

This is just semantics though - it is objectively not some separate, independent body like a private hospital is. While the employer is not strictly the government, it may as well be given the dependence - all public hospitals are bound by similar structures of staffing ratios, salaries, other entitlements etc.

The lines are even more blurred in other states, such as Queensland - there most employees are directly employed by subdivisions of Queensland Health.

 

[jason_recliner]

You would need GPS triangulation for an accurate position. Do pagers have GPS equipped these days?

No, it's possible to physically triangulate a source of radio signals. No need for GPS.

 

[Zidane98]

No, it's possible to physically triangulate a source of radio signals. No need for GPS.

To do so would require multiple receivers that can reliably measure ping time. This is effectively what wifi triangulation is without using GPS signals.