Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[Dogs_R_Us]

Not really. They should be considered innocent unless they are directly partaking in hostilities.

So a mother who says to her son, "Get out there, my son, and kill as many Jews as you can and make me proud" is counted as innocent?

I would define innocence in this conflict as having no knowledge* of the actions of the people you support, who don't reward your faith in them with protection. Children and babies of course are innocent but their deaths are useful for the Hamas Ministry of Health to stoke anti-Israel sentiment in the West.

*Very very unlikely as Palestinians are brought up from birth to support every effort to exterminate Jews.

 

[Kavliaris69]

Id love nothing more for Hamas to disappear and Gaza to be governed by either the PA or the Arab league so Palestinian civilians in Gaza can continue their lives in peace.

Governed by PL or Arab league and live in peace? Even then it will still be the worlds largest concentration camp.

Only a free independent Palestine and West Bank nation will bring them peace and proper identity. But Israel will never let that happen.

 

[Zidane98]

So a mother who says to her son, "Get out there, my son, and kill as many Jews as you can and make me proud" is counted as innocent?

I would define innocence in this conflict as having no knowledge* of the actions of the people you support, who don't reward your faith in them with protection. Children and babies of course are innocent but their deaths are useful for the Hamas Ministry of Health to stoke anti-Israel sentiment in the West.

*Very very unlikely as Palestinians are brought up from birth to support every effort to exterminate Jews.

Only if she's going out and arming him directly.

Also plenty of Palestinians are peaceful people, unfair to say they are brought up to exterminate Jews. Some are but the majority are not.

 

[Kurve]

*Very very unlikely as Palestinians are brought up from birth to support every effort to exterminate Jews.

That isn't true.

 

[Zidane98]

Governed by PL or Arab league and live in peace? Even then it will still be the worlds largest concentration camp.

Only a free independent Palestine and West Bank nation will bring them peace and proper identity. But Israel will never let that happen.

Israel has already offered that multiple times in history.

The response was war. Next time round both parties get to a point where it can happen hopefully peace is achieved.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Absolutely I regard indiscriminate bombing resulting in the deaths of 40,000+ people to be mass murder.

I'm not really fussed whether you agree with me or not - happy to agree to disagree.

With their sophisticated technology the bombing isn't indiscriminate, but targeted. Nearly 18,000 Hamas fighters have been killed (and identified), so are they part of or in addition to the number you quote?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Ah well, that makes everything okay then..........

No that's war, not terrorism.

The British were attacked by Germany on their own soil in WWII and fought them off, then chased the enemy into their own country. Was that terrorism?

 

[Demons09]

Ah well, that makes everything okay then..........

but you get my point yeah.

 

[sherb]

With their sophisticated technology the bombing isn't indiscriminate, but targeted. Nearly 18,000 Hamas fighters have been killed (and identified), so are they part of or in addition to the number you quote?

It can't be too well targeted if 20,000+ innocent civilians die in the process.

20,000 is still mass murder.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

With their sophisticated technology the bombing isn't indiscriminate, but targeted. Nearly 18,000 Hamas fighters have been killed (and identified), so are they part of or in addition to the number you quote?

Nonsense. Why do you keep spreading misinformation in this thread?

 

[Jazny]

So a mother who says to her son, "Get out there, my son, and kill as many Jews as you can and make me proud" is counted as innocent?

I would define innocence in this conflict as having no knowledge* of the actions of the people you support, who don't reward your faith in them with protection. Children and babies of course are innocent but their deaths are useful for the Hamas Ministry of Health to stoke anti-Israel sentiment in the West.

*Very very unlikely as Palestinians are brought up from birth to support every effort to exterminate Jews.

Yes innocent as in not being able to be targeted by the IDF and not being able to be charged with a crime or taken into custody in some other way.

I don't even know what percentage of Palestinians are radicalised to the extent you are describing. I don't think they all behave like that. A poll of Palestinians show that many of them don't even believe the atrocities that Hamas committed in Israel. And those that do believe it are far more likely to not support Hamas.

The war has to be against Hamas, not civilians in Gaza.

 

[Demons09]

Netanyahu is harbouring the settler terrorists, but you seem to support him?

What has that got to do with civilians dying in war, you’re taking your deflection skills to another level.

 

[Zidane98]

With their sophisticated technology the bombing isn't indiscriminate, but targeted. Nearly 18,000 Hamas fighters have been killed (and identified), so are they part of or in addition to the number you quote?

Has anyone got reliable civilian to participants death ratio in previous wars for a comparison?

The numbers quoted by pro Hamas posters quote total deaths which are reasonably accurate. However the total deaths do not differentiate between Hamas fighters & civilians.

15-18000 seems the number of Hamas fighters killed in this war so far according to multiple sources. To get a totally accurate number we would need cooperation from Hamas which obviously won't be forthcoming.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

*Very very unlikely as Palestinians are brought up from birth to support every effort to exterminate Jews.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

That isn't true.

So they'd like to live in peace alongside them? It's perfectly possible under the right kind of leadership. But...

Sadly there are plenty of videos of children, in and out of schools, mouthing the slogans of jihad. Look at the MEMRI videos on Youtube. There wouldn't be many who rejected (if they dared) the expel-the-Jews-from-the-river-to-the-sea narrative.

 

[Zidane98]

So they'd like to live in peace alongside them? It's perfectly possible under the right kind of leadership. But...

Sadly there are plenty of videos of children, in and out of schools, mouthing the slogans of jihad. Look at the MEMRI videos on Youtube. There wouldn't be many who rejected (if they dared) the expel-the-Jews-from-the-river-to-the-sea narrative.

That's an unfair characterisation.

The average Palestinian just wants to live in peace within the confines of their own state. Most probably want peace with Israel. Heavily radicalised Palestinians are an absolute minority but due to their nature cause issues for all.

You've also got Israeli settlers who believe they have a god given right to land / property that isn't theirs. They're just as bad.

 

[Demons09]

15 million military participants died in ww2 and 38 million civilians., i know the deflections are just around the corner but do some people actually think there will be no civilian casualties in armed conflicts.

 

[Kurve]

So they'd like to live in peace alongside them? It's perfectly possible under the right kind of leadership. But...

Sadly there are plenty of videos of children, in and out of schools, mouthing the slogans of jihad. Look at the MEMRI videos on Youtube. There wouldn't be many who rejected (if they dared) the expel-the-Jews-from-the-river-to-the-sea narrative.

Okay, I could have said it isn't true as a sweeping statement. I accept that some are groomed in to Islamism and jihad against Israel but while I've lost touch now, I do have Palestinian friends and a hatred of 'jews' was not expressed to me.

Memri's translations are generally accurate I think but they do tend to cherry pick their material a bit.

 

[Demons09]

Has anyone got reliable civilian to participants death ratio in previous wars for a comparison?

The numbers quoted by pro Hamas posters quote total deaths which are reasonably accurate. However the total deaths do not differentiate between Hamas fighters & civilians.

15-18000 seems the number of Hamas fighters killed in this war so far according to multiple sources. To get a totally accurate number we would need cooperation from Hamas which obviously won't be forthcoming.

If you go by that 15 to 18 thousand stat of Hamas fighters killed not to dissimilar to ww2.

 

[Zidane98]

Okay, I could have said it isn't true as a sweeping statement. I accept that some are groomed in to Islamism and jihad against Israel but while I've lost touch now, I do have Palestinian friends and a hatred of 'jews' was not expressed to me.

Memri's translations are generally accurate I think but they do tend to cherry pick their material a bit.

Local fish & chip owner is Palestinian for me. They don't have an issue with Jews at all. Lovely people.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Okay, I could have said it isn't true as a sweeping statement. I accept that some are groomed in to Islamism and jihad against Israel but while I've lost touch now, I do have Palestinian friends and a hatred of 'jews' was not expressed to me.

Memri's translations are generally accurate I think but they do tend to cherry pick their material a bit.

They’re not living in Palestine though. It would be different there. Hamas don’t allow dissent.

Watch the videos. Maybe these are isolated examples, I hope so.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

They’re not living in Palestine though. It would be different there. Hamas don’t allow dissent.

Watch the videos. Maybe these are isolated examples, I hope so.

Plenty of vidoes of indoctrinated/groomed Israelis as well. Doesn't mean they are all like that though.

You could say the same about any country. USA being a prominent example.... a majority Christian country that supplies most of Israel's weapons.

I'd suggest you have been groomed by certain MSM to hate Palestinians. That doesn't mean all Australians, or even all Bulldog supporters are like that.

 

[Zidane98]

Plenty of vidoes of indoctrinated/groomed Israelis as well. Doesn't mean they are all like that though.

You could say the same about any country. USA being a prominent example.... a majority Christian country that supplies most of Israel's weapons.

I'd suggest you have been groomed by certain MSM to hate Palestinians. That doesn't mean all Australians, or even all Bulldog supporters are like that.

MSM conspiracy.

Yawn.

 

[Kurve]

They’re not living in Palestine though. It would be different there. Hamas don’t allow dissent.

Watch the videos. Maybe these are isolated examples, I hope so.

One of them actually was living on the West Bank but they all hail from the OT.

I've seen the videos, I'm not suggesting they aren't shocking.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

MSM conspiracy.

Yawn.

What, you don't think Newscorp grooms it's audience?