Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hezbollah - Houthis

[Demons09]

What, you don't think Newscorp grooms it's audience?

Only conspiracy theorists think that.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Only conspiracy theorists think that.

Why did FOX have to pay $800 million for their election lies?

Is that part of the conspiracy?

 

[Zidane98]

Why did FOX have to pay $800 million for their election lies?

Is that part of the conspiracy?

There's a whole thread for MSM conspiracy theories on the cooker board for discussing stuff like this.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

There's a while thread for MSM conspiracy theories on the cooker board for discussing stuff like this.

I think you are confused, I'm not talking about the Jewish conspiracy.

The majority of zionists are christians, not jewish.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

So US-led coalition forces fighting ISIL were committing mass murder by your criteria?

Were they illegally occupying ISIL land? Were they trying to claim they were acting in self-defence against ISILs resistance to that occupation?

You can't be at war with a territory you occupy illegally. As occupier Israel are responsible for the safety and wellbeing of those civilians they have deliberately starved and slaughtered in their tens of thousands.

100 civilians per potential Hamas operative is murder.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

It does diminish their claim to innocence though.

Dogs and Demons here the legal eagles.

 

[FIGJAM]

100 civilians per potential Hamas operative is murder.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Jazny]

Were they illegally occupying ISIL land? Were they trying to claim they were acting in self-defence against ISILs resistance to that occupation?

We have been over this. Israel have the legal right to go to war against Hamas no matter which way you try and spin it, which is why no serious organisation on the planet is challenging this right. They can only really be challenged on their in bello actions.

The question I ask is because his definition of mass murder was such that the US-led coalition's war on ISIL could also be described as mass murder. The western forces lost very few soldiers and almost no property, but killed thousands of civilians and thousands of ISIL combatants and destroyed alot of property in a very one sided war. I think most people on the planet wouldn't consider this mass murder though.

100 civilians per potential Hamas operative is murder.

What? Where do you get this ratio?

 

[Zidane98]

We have been over this. Israel have the legal right to go to war against Hamas no matter which way you try and spin it, which is why no serious organisation on the planet is challenging this right. They can only really be challenged on their in bello actions.

The question I ask is because his definition of mass murder was such that the US-led coalition's war on ISIL could also be described as mass murder. The western forces lost very few soldiers and almost no property, but killed thousands of civilians and thousands of ISIL combatants and destroyed alot of property in a very one sided war. I think most people on the planet wouldn't consider this mass murder though.



What? Where do you get this ratio?

I thought the same.

That would be 1.5-1.8 million civilian deaths for the 15-18000 Hamas operative deaths.

 

[Jazny]

I thought the same.

That would be 1.5-1.8 million civilian deaths for the 15-18000 Hamas operative deaths.

Unless he thinks they have only killed like ~400 members of Hamas this whole time

That's honestly the least serious casualty ratio in this war I have heard proposed by so far it's not funny, and there has been some wild claims. He must have meant something else.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

We have been over this. Israel have the legal right to go to war against Hamas no matter which way you try and spin it, which is why no serious organisation on the planet is challenging this right. They can only really be challenged on their in bello actions.

War against Hamas is what is claimed, but their actions have been war and collective punishment against Palestinians. Including the use of starvation as a weapon of war, a war crime.

The question I ask is because his definition of mass murder was such that the US-led coalition's war on ISIL could also be described as mass murder. The western forces lost very few soldiers and almost no property, but killed thousands of civilians and thousands of ISIL combatants and destroyed alot of property in a very one sided war.

It's not mass murder due to the unbalanced casualties, but because of the unprecedented disregard for proportionality.

What? Where do you get this ratio?

This is the acceptable ratio for casualties from IDF airstrikes. I wonder if Hamas were in Tel Aviv and not Gaza would this be the ROE.

‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza

The Israeli army has marked tens of thousands of Gazans as suspects for assassination, using an AI targeting system with little human oversight and a permissive policy for casualties, +972 and Local Call reveal.

www.972mag.com

 

[faible]

Netanyahu isn't going to cave in to the demands of releasing many of the prisoners Hamas wants. Sinwar's rise after he was released from jail, cured of a tumour with an Israeli brain surgeon's scalpel and fluent in Hebrew, would be one of the influencing reasons why.

Speaking of, Israel's managed to kill the majority of Hezbollah's high command in four weeks but they haven't appeared to be able to get at Sinwar in twelve months.

I'm wondering if he's actually dead.

So Netanyahu is all talk, and won’t actually agree to a ceasefire that’s acceptable to all parties then.

 

[faible]

Those here happy to repeat Hamas propaganda

There are plenty in this thread that believe exactly that - but only when it concerns Palestinian civilians.

When it is the other way round Israeli civilians deserve it or it was really Israel killing their own to make Hamas bad or some sort of variation of the above.

Regardless of what anyone believes the facts are that Palestine is an Arab league member.

Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE, Bahrain and Kuwait also are Arab league members and official allies of Palestine.

It goes without saying if any of those allies honestly believed Israel were commuting mass murder against civilians of an ally they absolute would step in and take military action against Israel.

The fact that they are not leaves two options only here:

a) Israel is fighting a war against Hamas

Or

B) Arab league supports the alleged murder of civilians from a member state by a hostile state to the Arab league.


As b simply isn't feasible or realistic a) it is.

False dichotomy is a logical fallacy. Once again.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

With their sophisticated technology the bombing isn't indiscriminate, but targeted. Nearly 18,000 Hamas fighters have been killed (and identified), so are they part of or in addition to the number you quote?

Sadly there are plenty of videos of children, in and out of schools, mouthing the slogans of jihad.

You're like a Bibi sock puppet. Were you the one who questioned me about my knowledge of history when I posted that Hezbollah would stop their attacks when Israel stopped it's cleansing of Gaza? Maybe it was Demons, you're interchangable.



Strange that Israel leak this.

 

[faible]

Pretty sure the claim of 18,000 Hamas fighters being killed is just counting every single adult male Palestinian as Hamas.

This is a pro-Israeli figure, not necessarily a factual one. I get why people find it convenient to simply chalk up Palestinian = Hamas though. It makes downplaying the atrocity palatable.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Pretty sure the claim of 18,000 Hamas fighters being killed is just counting every single adult male Palestinian as Hamas.

This is a pro-Israeli figure, not necessarily a factual one. I get why people find it convenient to simply chalk up Palestinian = Hamas though. It makes downplaying the atrocity palatable.

So what number of Hamas fighters would you find believable?

Hamas being a loose terrorist organisation doesn’t have an army as such so they are all civilian volunteers.

Hamas has certainly been decimated which would indicate that a large number have been killed or captured.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

So what number of Hamas fighters would you find believable?

Hamas being a loose terrorist organisation doesn’t have an army as such so they are all civilian volunteers.

Hamas has certainly been decimated which would indicate that a large number have been killed or captured.

You truly have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

 

[Jazny]

War against Hamas is what is claimed, but their actions have been war and collective punishment against Palestinians. Including the use of starvation as a weapon of war, a war crime.



It's not mass murder due to the unbalanced casualties, but because of the unprecedented disregard for proportionality.




This is the acceptable ratio for casualties from IDF airstrikes. I wonder if Hamas were in Tel Aviv and not Gaza would this be the ROE.

View attachment 2126023

‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza

The Israeli army has marked tens of thousands of Gazans as suspects for assassination, using an AI targeting system with little human oversight and a permissive policy for casualties, +972 and Local Call reveal.

www.972mag.com

I wouldn't put much stock in that claim, seems to be very wild and not in accordance to any casualty ratio estimations being made. The IDF has disputed claims made about the Lavender AI articles and it's extremely doubtful we are seeing anything like a 15-1 casualty ratio or higher. If such a directive came out that the IDF were blanket allowing the killing of low ranking members of Hamas knowing they will likely kill 15+ civilians, every single person in that chain of command will be up on war crimes. Not to say it's impossible though, but I have doubts..

If it's how the IDF has been operating, you would also expect to see an almost even number of adult men and women being killed. 1 death of an adult male for 15 or so deaths of random civilian population would end up with an almost even number of males and female mortality.

This isn't close according to a breakdown of the Hamas data, there is just a touch over two adult men for every adult woman killed from Oct 7th 2023 until 31 August this year.

Tracking Gaza’s war death toll: Ministry of Health improves accuracy in latest casualty report - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Coordination and Protection and Human Rights; published on 24 Sep 2024 by AOAV

reliefweb.int

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I wouldn't put much stock in that claim, seems to be very wild and not in accordance to any casualty ratio estimations being made. The IDF has disputed claims made about the Lavender AI articles and it's extremely doubtful we are seeing anything like a 15-1 casualty ratio or higher. If such a directive came out that the IDF were blanket allowing the killing of low ranking members of Hamas knowing they will likely kill 15+ civilians, every single person in that chain of command will be up on war crimes. Not to say it's impossible though, but I have doubts..

If it's how the IDF has been operating, you would also expect to see an almost even number of adult men and women being killed. 1 death of an adult male for 15 or so deaths of random civilian population would end up with an almost even number of males and female mortality.

This isn't close according to a breakdown of the Hamas data, there is just a touch over two adult men for every adult woman killed from Oct 7th 2023 until 31 August this year.

Tracking Gaza’s war death toll: Ministry of Health improves accuracy in latest casualty report - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Coordination and Protection and Human Rights; published on 24 Sep 2024 by AOAV

reliefweb.int

Did you forget about all the times IDF bombed schools, hospitals and refugee tents? It's been almost daily, for 11+ months.

 

[Zidane98]

Pretty sure the claim of 18,000 Hamas fighters being killed is just counting every single adult male Palestinian as Hamas.

This is a pro-Israeli figure, not necessarily a factual one. I get why people find it convenient to simply chalk up Palestinian = Hamas though. It makes downplaying the atrocity palatable.

As usual you have no evidence to back up this assertion whatsoever.

ISW study - Hamas massively weakened compared to pre war:

Institute for the Study of War

Translating the defeat of Hamas’ brigades into the destruction of the organization will require additional Israeli or international measures to prevent Hamas from recovering. Hamas’ military and political destruction requires the articulation of a poli

understandingwar.org

US Intel has assessed Hamas losses at around 30-35% in May:

Only 30 to 35% of Hamas fighters killed in Gaza war: report

Israel's bombardment in Gaza has only killed 30 to 35% of Hamas' fighters, while 65% of the group's tunnels remain intact, a report has said.

www.newarab.com

Total Hamas numbers pre war estimates at 30k plus:

Six months on, how close is Israel to eliminating Hamas?

BBC Verify assesses the evidence behind Israel's key war aim of destroying Hamas during its military operation in the Gaza Strip.

www.bbc.com

So as of May at least 9000-9500 Hamas losses.

Of course it could all much clearer if Hamas released data that identifies civilian deaths separately from deaths of their members. The reason for deliberately withholding this information is obvious.

The facts are that Hamas have been decimated.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I wouldn't put much stock in that claim,

I'm shocked. Of course you wouldn't.

seems to be very wild and not in accordance to any casualty ratio estimations being made. The IDF has disputed claims made about the Lavender AI articles and it's extremely doubtful we are seeing anything like a 15-1 casualty ratio or higher.

Wild? 6 sources, whose accounts were sent to other news organisations. Have you actually read the IDF response? It's a mealy-mouthed load of vague nonsense and if you actually believe it is an effective denial I will have lost some respect for you.

Israel Defence Forces’ response to claims about use of ‘Lavender’ AI database in Gaza

Statement issued after six Israeli intelligence sources speak out about AI use in Gaza war

www.theguardian.com

If such a directive came out that the IDF were blanket allowing the killing of low ranking members of Hamas knowing they will likely kill 15+ civilians, every single person in that chain of command will be up on war crimes.

How is that going to happen Jazy? Israel don't give a **** about international law, how many times do they have to say and show that before you stop using it as some sort of proof of something?

'IDF would never do that, it's against the law!' Are you for real?

Water carriers spouting this as some sort of self-evidence that Israel don't break international law are ridiculous.

If it's how the IDF has been operating, you would also expect to see an almost even number of adult men and women being killed. 1 death of an adult male for 15 or so deaths of random civilian population would end up with an almost even number of males and female mortality.

This isn't close according to a breakdown of the Hamas data, there is just a touch over two adult men for every adult woman killed.

Tracking Gaza’s war death toll: Ministry of Health improves accuracy in latest casualty report - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Coordination and Protection and Human Rights; published on 24 Sep 2024 by AOAV

reliefweb.int

40% Adult male casualties is an absolute indictment on this massacre.

 

[petrie pie]

Lancet the British medical Journal and not really well known as a Hamas supporter 3 months ago stated that between a 180.000 and 250.000 is actually much closer to the real number of people who have been murdered by the IDF during this Genocide.

Seeing the IDF have killed more than 1200 in Lebanon since the 23rd of sept I think there is a good chance that Lancet is much closer to the actual figure than the Israeli puppets here.

There are estimated to 10.000,s under the rubble who will never be found it is just as well the UN is a western lackey because have not covered themselves in glory in this dispute.

 

[Jazny]

How is that going to happen Jazy? Israel don't give a **** about international law, how many times do they have to say and show that before you stop using it as some sort of proof of something?

'IDF would never do that, it's against the law!' Are you for real?

The difference is this would be a clear directive that has gone out, easily verifiable, and obviously against international law. It's so obviously a violation, and so blatant, that if it is true, there will almost certainly be accountability for it. Everyone from the people responsible for the order, to those who carried out the unlawful order, will be held accountable. This would be another My Lai, very hard to cover up.

This does not mean it didn't happen, just that we need some strong evidence.

I'm shocked. Of course you wouldn't.



Wild? 6 sources, whose accounts were sent to other news organisations.

FWIW it was 2 of those six sources claimed the 1-15+ combatant to civilian casualty ratio.

Have you actually read the IDF response? It's a mealy-mouthed load of vague nonsense and if you actually believe it is an effective denial I will have lost some respect for you.

I didn't know you had any respect for me to lose Yeah I read it, it's vague and general, but probably about what you would expect. It seems to be a general response to questions posed by the guardian rather than a line by line refutation of the released article. This IDF international spokesperson makes the explicit refutation to the alleged casualty ratio in a tweet.



Obviously this does not mean its false, but it does explicitly address the claim in non-vague terms at least.

 

[Jazny]

Lancet the British medical Journal and not really well known as a Hamas supporter 3 months ago stated that between a 180.000 and 250.000 is actually much closer to the real number of people who have been murdered by the IDF during this Genocide.

False.

It was a correspondence letter that appeared in The Lancet. Also your retelling of the contents of the correspondence is wrong.

 

[faible]

So as of May at least 9000-9500 Hamas losses.

So about half the 18,000 figure claimed today, despite over 30,000 deaths already having occurred by then.

Total Hamas numbers pre war estimates at 30k plus:

So out of a population of ~ 2 millions Gazans, 30k are Hamas, what’s that, about 1.5%?

Yet we’re meant to believe that given the scale of bombing of vast amounts of civilian areas, that close to 50% of the casualties are Hamas?

That doesn’t add up too well. Dropping 2000 pound bombs and pretending they’re surgically targeted doesn’t add up.