Only conspiracy theorists think that.What, you don't think Newscorp grooms it's audience?
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Only conspiracy theorists think that.What, you don't think Newscorp grooms it's audience?
Only conspiracy theorists think that.
Why did FOX have to pay $800 million for their election lies?
Is that part of the conspiracy?
There's a while thread for MSM conspiracy theories on the cooker board for discussing stuff like this.
So US-led coalition forces fighting ISIL were committing mass murder by your criteria?
It does diminish their claim to innocence though.
100 civilians per potential Hamas operative is murder.
We have been over this. Israel have the legal right to go to war against Hamas no matter which way you try and spin it, which is why no serious organisation on the planet is challenging this right. They can only really be challenged on their in bello actions.Were they illegally occupying ISIL land? Were they trying to claim they were acting in self-defence against ISILs resistance to that occupation?
What? Where do you get this ratio?100 civilians per potential Hamas operative is murder.
We have been over this. Israel have the legal right to go to war against Hamas no matter which way you try and spin it, which is why no serious organisation on the planet is challenging this right. They can only really be challenged on their in bello actions.
The question I ask is because his definition of mass murder was such that the US-led coalition's war on ISIL could also be described as mass murder. The western forces lost very few soldiers and almost no property, but killed thousands of civilians and thousands of ISIL combatants and destroyed alot of property in a very one sided war. I think most people on the planet wouldn't consider this mass murder though.
What? Where do you get this ratio?
Unless he thinks they have only killed like ~400 members of Hamas this whole timeI thought the same.
That would be 1.5-1.8 million civilian deaths for the 15-18000 Hamas operative deaths.
We have been over this. Israel have the legal right to go to war against Hamas no matter which way you try and spin it, which is why no serious organisation on the planet is challenging this right. They can only really be challenged on their in bello actions.
The question I ask is because his definition of mass murder was such that the US-led coalition's war on ISIL could also be described as mass murder. The western forces lost very few soldiers and almost no property, but killed thousands of civilians and thousands of ISIL combatants and destroyed alot of property in a very one sided war.
What? Where do you get this ratio?
Netanyahu isn't going to cave in to the demands of releasing many of the prisoners Hamas wants. Sinwar's rise after he was released from jail, cured of a tumour with an Israeli brain surgeon's scalpel and fluent in Hebrew, would be one of the influencing reasons why.
Speaking of, Israel's managed to kill the majority of Hezbollah's high command in four weeks but they haven't appeared to be able to get at Sinwar in twelve months.
I'm wondering if he's actually dead.
Those here happy to repeat Hamas propaganda
There are plenty in this thread that believe exactly that - but only when it concerns Palestinian civilians.
When it is the other way round Israeli civilians deserve it or it was really Israel killing their own to make Hamas bad or some sort of variation of the above.
Regardless of what anyone believes the facts are that Palestine is an Arab league member.
Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE, Bahrain and Kuwait also are Arab league members and official allies of Palestine.
It goes without saying if any of those allies honestly believed Israel were commuting mass murder against civilians of an ally they absolute would step in and take military action against Israel.
The fact that they are not leaves two options only here:
a) Israel is fighting a war against Hamas
Or
B) Arab league supports the alleged murder of civilians from a member state by a hostile state to the Arab league.
As b simply isn't feasible or realistic a) it is.
With their sophisticated technology the bombing isn't indiscriminate, but targeted. Nearly 18,000 Hamas fighters have been killed (and identified), so are they part of or in addition to the number you quote?
Sadly there are plenty of videos of children, in and out of schools, mouthing the slogans of jihad.
So what number of Hamas fighters would you find believable?Pretty sure the claim of 18,000 Hamas fighters being killed is just counting every single adult male Palestinian as Hamas.
This is a pro-Israeli figure, not necessarily a factual one. I get why people find it convenient to simply chalk up Palestinian = Hamas though. It makes downplaying the atrocity palatable.
So what number of Hamas fighters would you find believable?
Hamas being a loose terrorist organisation doesn’t have an army as such so they are all civilian volunteers.
Hamas has certainly been decimated which would indicate that a large number have been killed or captured.
I wouldn't put much stock in that claim, seems to be very wild and not in accordance to any casualty ratio estimations being made. The IDF has disputed claims made about the Lavender AI articles and it's extremely doubtful we are seeing anything like a 15-1 casualty ratio or higher. If such a directive came out that the IDF were blanket allowing the killing of low ranking members of Hamas knowing they will likely kill 15+ civilians, every single person in that chain of command will be up on war crimes. Not to say it's impossible though, but I have doubts..War against Hamas is what is claimed, but their actions have been war and collective punishment against Palestinians. Including the use of starvation as a weapon of war, a war crime.
It's not mass murder due to the unbalanced casualties, but because of the unprecedented disregard for proportionality.
This is the acceptable ratio for casualties from IDF airstrikes. I wonder if Hamas were in Tel Aviv and not Gaza would this be the ROE.
View attachment 2126023
‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza
The Israeli army has marked tens of thousands of Gazans as suspects for assassination, using an AI targeting system with little human oversight and a permissive policy for casualties, +972 and Local Call reveal.www.972mag.com
I wouldn't put much stock in that claim, seems to be very wild and not in accordance to any casualty ratio estimations being made. The IDF has disputed claims made about the Lavender AI articles and it's extremely doubtful we are seeing anything like a 15-1 casualty ratio or higher. If such a directive came out that the IDF were blanket allowing the killing of low ranking members of Hamas knowing they will likely kill 15+ civilians, every single person in that chain of command will be up on war crimes. Not to say it's impossible though, but I have doubts..
If it's how the IDF has been operating, you would also expect to see an almost even number of adult men and women being killed. 1 death of an adult male for 15 or so deaths of random civilian population would end up with an almost even number of males and female mortality.
This isn't close according to a breakdown of the Hamas data, there is just a touch over two adult men for every adult woman killed from Oct 7th 2023 until 31 August this year.
Tracking Gaza’s war death toll: Ministry of Health improves accuracy in latest casualty report - occupied Palestinian territory
News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Coordination and Protection and Human Rights; published on 24 Sep 2024 by AOAVreliefweb.int
Pretty sure the claim of 18,000 Hamas fighters being killed is just counting every single adult male Palestinian as Hamas.
This is a pro-Israeli figure, not necessarily a factual one. I get why people find it convenient to simply chalk up Palestinian = Hamas though. It makes downplaying the atrocity palatable.
I wouldn't put much stock in that claim,
seems to be very wild and not in accordance to any casualty ratio estimations being made. The IDF has disputed claims made about the Lavender AI articles and it's extremely doubtful we are seeing anything like a 15-1 casualty ratio or higher.
If such a directive came out that the IDF were blanket allowing the killing of low ranking members of Hamas knowing they will likely kill 15+ civilians, every single person in that chain of command will be up on war crimes.
If it's how the IDF has been operating, you would also expect to see an almost even number of adult men and women being killed. 1 death of an adult male for 15 or so deaths of random civilian population would end up with an almost even number of males and female mortality.
This isn't close according to a breakdown of the Hamas data, there is just a touch over two adult men for every adult woman killed.
Tracking Gaza’s war death toll: Ministry of Health improves accuracy in latest casualty report - occupied Palestinian territory
News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Coordination and Protection and Human Rights; published on 24 Sep 2024 by AOAVreliefweb.int
The difference is this would be a clear directive that has gone out, easily verifiable, and obviously against international law. It's so obviously a violation, and so blatant, that if it is true, there will almost certainly be accountability for it. Everyone from the people responsible for the order, to those who carried out the unlawful order, will be held accountable. This would be another My Lai, very hard to cover up.How is that going to happen Jazy? Israel don't give a **** about international law, how many times do they have to say and show that before you stop using it as some sort of proof of something?
'IDF would never do that, it's against the law!' Are you for real?
FWIW it was 2 of those six sources claimed the 1-15+ combatant to civilian casualty ratio.I'm shocked. Of course you wouldn't.
Wild? 6 sources, whose accounts were sent to other news organisations.
I didn't know you had any respect for me to lose Yeah I read it, it's vague and general, but probably about what you would expect. It seems to be a general response to questions posed by the guardian rather than a line by line refutation of the released article. This IDF international spokesperson makes the explicit refutation to the alleged casualty ratio in a tweet.Have you actually read the IDF response? It's a mealy-mouthed load of vague nonsense and if you actually believe it is an effective denial I will have lost some respect for you.
False.Lancet the British medical Journal and not really well known as a Hamas supporter 3 months ago stated that between a 180.000 and 250.000 is actually much closer to the real number of people who have been murdered by the IDF during this Genocide.
So as of May at least 9000-9500 Hamas losses.
Total Hamas numbers pre war estimates at 30k plus: