Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hezbollah - Houthis

[treeebeard]

As I mentioned before, there is a general conflation of antisemitism and criticism of Israel in the present-day. I was happy to draw attention to Sartre's comment in the context of the present because it is you who drew the clear link between antisemitism in the present and what JPS said 80yrs ago.

You suggested that the antisemitic tendencies of Sartre's time (which as you point out were causing a Holocaust) were just as relevant as the antisemitism in this thread. (i.e. hey, how prescient was this guy?)

Now, do I know whether or not antisemitism abounds in this thread? No. But do I know that the slander of antisemitism has been used to shut down discussion of Israel? Yes.

It's in that context that the meaning of antisemitism might need some clarification. Are we talking about the hyper-hatred of Nazi Germany, or the politicised use of 'antisemitism' in the present, or something in between?

I appreciate your willingness to acknowledge that you had the wrong end of the stick in relation to the subsequent post, but you might want to acknowledge that you're barking up the wrong tree on this as well.

Now if it's alright with you, I'll stop caring about your interpretations and allow the thread to talk about more meaningful things, like Israel's war against children.

Of course there's conflation. Jewish lobby groups have a huge influence on some western political leaders' israel policy. Lowenstein has written about this. It's been there since Silver and Wise pressured Truman.

 

[treeebeard]

There's a number of points or observations which can be made from this.

The October 7 terror attack hindered rather than helped the cause of peace. That seems clear.

The slaughter committed by Israel since October 7 has made a further mockery of any lasting peace.

Israel has agency over the leadership in Gaza and West Bank. It funneled (or more specifically, allowed Qatar to funnel) millions of dollars to Hamas in order to prop up the militant and unelected regime. At the same time, Netanyahu made life more difficult for the PA in the West Bank.

Israel played politics, trying to stoke more militant Palestinian voices and shutting down the moderates. It can't keep doing that.

Jihadist groups are a security threat to Israel, but the threat (a) does not justify the genocidal campaign and (b) does not go away because of a genocidal campaign. It makes it worse.

The thing is, prior to October 7th, "peace" was palestinians living under occupation & apartheid and suffering land loss through settlement. This is what happens to "peaceful" Palestinians

 

[JB1975]

The thing is, prior to October 7th, "peace" was palestinians living under occupation & apartheid and suffering land loss through settlement. This is what happens to "peaceful" Palestinians

This is indeed a problem. Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza are living under occupation and are expected to be perfectly-behaved in their subjugation.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

This is disinformation. There are far right nutters in Israel that want to settle Gaza but they do not represent official government policy in any way. Much in the same way Pauline Hanson's policies do not reflect what the average aussie wants.

When Hanson is made Minister of Finance or Minister of National Security, your comparison may have some merit.

All of Netanyahu's statements reflect that Israel has no intentions of permanently occupying or governing Gaza post war.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-let-me-be-clear-israel-has-no-intention-of-displacing-gazas-population/

That's just one of many.

Does Bibi consider Gaza part of Eretz Yisrael?



You may recall he quit the Sharon government over the withdrawal from Gaza.

To suggest that Israel has begun discussing settlements in Gaza is no different to saying that Hamas / Iran has begun discussing settlements in Israel with their open declarations of wanting to destroy the state of Israel and Hamas' "River to the sea" mantra.

Yawn.

Also misleading about the Knesset. Here's Yair Lapid, as recently as 2022 to debunk thisw

Israeli Prime Minister Lapid backs two-State solution

Prime Minister Yair Lapid on Thursday said a two-State solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was “the right thing” for Israel, but he cautioned that a future Palestinian state must not be “another terror base”.

news.un.org

“Despite all the obstacles…a large majority of Israelis support the vision of this two-State solution. I am one of them”, he said, on the sole condition that “a future Palestinian state will be a peaceful one,” and not another terror base that threatens the country’s very existence.


“An agreement with the Palestinians, based on two states for two peoples, is the right thing for Israel’s security, for Israel’s economy and for the future of our children,” he stated.


It would be more accurate to suggest Likud does not want a two state solution. Many in the Knesset do and when Likud are in the minority again it is far more likely to happen.

The Knesset voted to outlaw the possibility of a Palestinian state. All but 1 Jewish member of the Knesset voted to outlaw the UN agency responsible for crucial aid for millions in Gaza.

Israel banned 5 American aid agencies from providing crucial medical support to a collapsed healthcare system in Gaza for speaking out in an NYT article.

It's nice that you have this idea of Israel as some peace loving, egalitarian society. It's just fantasy at this point.

 

[sydney_gws]

When Hanson is made Minister of Finance or Minister of National Security, your comparison may have some merit.



Does Bibi consider Gaza part of Eretz Yisrael?

View attachment 2163821

You may recall he quit the Sharon government over the withdrawal from Gaza.



Yawn.



The Knesset voted to outlaw the possibility of a Palestinian state. All but 1 Jewish member of the Knesset voted to outlaw the UN agency responsible for crucial aid for millions in Gaza.

Israel banned 5 American aid agencies from providing crucial medical support to a collapsed healthcare system in Gaza for speaking out in an NYT article.

It's nice that you have this idea of Israel as some peace loving, egalitarian society. It's just fantasy at this point.

I don't understand why such a drama over land not that valuable anyway.
We all have probably more than a million relatives 1800 years ago.
Anybody of European, Middle Eastern heritage would have so many relatives spread over the region back then, who knows where they lived exactly.

Surely sensible American people don't want to waste money on Israel, nor do Iranians wish to pour money down the drain supporting Hezbollah.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

While they do this, they are entrenching new racist laws, aimed at those token Arab Israeli citizens everybody trots out when they want to pretend there is no apartheid.

הקואליציה מקדמת הצעת חוק שתקל על פסילת מועמדים ערבים בבחירות | כלכליסט

ההצעה שהגיש יו"ר הקואליציה ח"כ אופיר כץ (ליכוד) מרחיבה את העילות שבאמצעותן ניתן לפסול מועמדים ורשימות בבחירות, ומבטלת את סמכות בית המשפט לאשר את הפסילה; ועדת השרים לחקיקה צפויה לאשר אותה ביום שני

www.calcalist.co.il

Israel passes law to deport relatives of attackers, including citizens

Opponents say the legislation, which would apply to close family members, is unconstitutional.

www.bbc.com

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I don't understand why such a drama over land not that valuable anyway.
Who cares about their relatives 1800 years ago.
Anybody of European, Middle Eastern heritage would have so many relatives spread over the region back then, who knows where they lived.

Surely sensible American people don't want to waste money on Israel, nor do Iranians wish to pour money down the drain supporting Hezbollah.

The right to self-determination is a human right. This is about a lot more than a patch of sand.

 

[sydney_gws]

The right to self-determination is a human right. This is about a lot more than a patch of sand.

I agree, but no country wants to make itself smaller. Think Tamils Sri Lanka, Europeans South Africa, Kurdish people, Basque people all want to carve out about 20% or more to be independent, none of them are having much luck.
Even Lebannon itself, seemingly 2 countries in one.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Amazing Footage From Jabalya: Civilians Openly Curse Hamas, Terrorists Surrendering - VINnews

JERUSALEM (VINnews) — In a remarkable and revealing 20-minute clip from Jabalya, which until recently was a Hamas stronghold in northern Gaza, Israeli journalist Ohad Hemo openly entered the ruins of the refugee camp and spoke with hundreds of civilian Gazans leaving the camp. Join our WhatsApp...

vinnews.com

 

[Jazny]

Amazing Footage From Jabalya: Civilians Openly Curse Hamas, Terrorists Surrendering - VINnews

JERUSALEM (VINnews) — In a remarkable and revealing 20-minute clip from Jabalya, which until recently was a Hamas stronghold in northern Gaza, Israeli journalist Ohad Hemo openly entered the ruins of the refugee camp and spoke with hundreds of civilian Gazans leaving the camp. Join our WhatsApp...

vinnews.com

I watched this earlier. It was interesting but it's hard to know how representative the views of the people being interviewed are. I doubt it's completely fabricated, but it's possible they just showed the most favourable of the responses for Israel. Still worth watching though. Really sad seeing their distress.

 

[DapperDon]

In stark contrast to the claims by Muslims worldwide that Israel is committing genocide against the Gazans, the local population unanimously praise Israel for its humane approach and for providing them with food,water and medical care.

I mean, c'mon

At least try not to make it so propagandist

 

[Jazny]

I mean, c'mon

At least try not to make it so propagandist

Yeah a bit biased... I doubt they 'unanimously praise Israel' but that's just from the Vin's article, I don't know who they are but the video they are writing about wasn't produced by them. It was produced by Israel's Channel 12, which is fairly trustworthy I think.

It popped up on youtube earlier. I don't know what to make of it but it was interesting to hear what at least some of them apparently had to say.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

ffs you realise those interviews are done under duress? IDF escorts the TV crew and guns are likely pointed towards those refugees, yeah ?

 

[treeebeard]

I don't understand why such a drama over land not that valuable anyway.
We all have probably more than a million relatives 1800 years ago.
Anybody of European, Middle Eastern heritage would have so many relatives spread over the region back then, who knows where they lived exactly.

Surely sensible American people don't want to waste money on Israel, nor do Iranians wish to pour money down the drain supporting Hezbollah.

Zionists spend hundred of millions on political donations to keep the US money tap turned on for Israel's occupation. Its nothing to do with the general voting population at all.

 

[DapperDon]

Yeah a bit biased... I doubt they 'unanimously praise Israel' but that's just from the Vin's article, I don't know who they are but the video they are writing about wasn't produced by them. It was produced by Israel's Channel 12, which is fairly trustworthy I think.

It popped up on youtube earlier. I don't know what to make of it but it was interesting to hear what at least some of them apparently had to say.

I have no doubt some if not most are angry at Hamas. I imagine all of them are starving, dehydrated and scared for their lives that they'd say anything at that moment. While the footage gives an insight, it's also pretty poor to stick a camera in their face and ask them who do they blame all the while being surrounded by IDF soldiers and tanks.

I do hope they actually got help once the cameras turned off

 

[faible]

Aid agencies accuse Israel of failing to provide enough support to Gaza as US deadline passes

The US will continue to provide military assistance to the Netanyahu government, despite aid agencies saying it has fallen short of providing enough aid to the wartorn region.

www.abc.net.au

Last month, the United States gave Israel 30 days to improve the humanitarian situation in Gaza, with that deadline passing on Tuesday, local time.

The Biden administration had said Israel's failure to allow more aid into the war-ravaged territory would bring consequences, including for US military support for Israel.

Almost 39,000 tonnes of aid was taken into the territory in October this year, down from its peak of about 137,000 tonnes in April this year.

He said only 17 per cent of food needed for Gaza is currently getting in.

The US State Department says American military assistance to Israel will not change.

If you give someone an ultimatum, they fail to meet it, but there's no consequences whatsoever and you continue to support them, it's not really an ultimatum.

 

[Zidane98]

When Hanson is made Minister of Finance or Minister of National Security, your comparison may have some merit.



Does Bibi consider Gaza part of Eretz Yisrael?

View attachment 2163821

You may recall he quit the Sharon government over the withdrawal from Gaza.



Yawn.



The Knesset voted to outlaw the possibility of a Palestinian state. All but 1 Jewish member of the Knesset voted to outlaw the UN agency responsible for crucial aid for millions in Gaza.

This is true The fact remains in 2022 before the Oct 7 terror attacks Israel's PM openly declared support for a two state solution. Regardless of this there is nothing more anti two state solution than an unprovoked terror attack on Israeli civilians being launched from Palestinian territory, hostages taken continuing to this very day, over a year later. That is the most anti two state solution action any actors in the dispute could possibly commit.

Israel did say they would accept any other aid agency besides UNRWA operating in Gaza. UNRWA assets being used in the Oct 7 terror attack is obviously a big issue for Israel as it would be for any state in a similar scenario. Perhaps the right way to go about it would be to give the UN 60 or 90 days to arrange a new aid delivery system rather than banning it immediately.

Israel banned 5 American aid agencies from providing crucial medical support to a collapsed healthcare system in Gaza for speaking out in an NYT article.

It would be better if responsibility for Gaza was transferred to the Arab league IMO, supplied via Egypt. I believe such an agreement can be made once security and order is restored to Gaza. Making this sort of unacceptable behavior by Israel redundant.

Meanwhile, in Palestine if a citizen sells property to a Israeli citizen they can be subject to life imprisonment or even death.

It's nice that you have this idea of Israel as some peace loving, egalitarian society. It's just fantasy at this point.

Utter nonsense. There is not a single poster in this thread that suggests anything like this at all, even uber pro Israeli supporters like Zev.

Meanwhile there is a belief that Hamas are just doing what they believe is right for the people of Palestine and had no choice but to respond in the way they did on Oct 7 by a core group of posters in this thread.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

This is true The fact remains in 2022 before the Oct 7 terror attacks Israel's PM openly declared support for a two state solution. Regardless of this there is nothing more anti two state solution than an unprovoked terror attack on Israeli civilians being launched from Palestinian territory, hostages taken continuing to this very day, over a year later. That is the most anti two state solution action any actors in the dispute could possibly commit.

Israel did say they would accept any other aid agency besides UNRWA operating in Gaza. UNRWA assets being used in the Oct 7 terror attack is obviously a big issue for Israel as it would be for any state in a similar scenario. Perhaps the right way to go about it would be to give the UN 60 or 90 days to arrange a new aid delivery system rather than banning it immediately.

It would be better if responsibility for Gaza was transferred to the Arab league IMO, supplied via Egypt. I believe such an agreement can be made once security and order is restored to Gaza. Making this sort of unacceptable behavior by Israel redundant.

Meanwhile, in Palestine if a citizen sells property to a Israeli citizen they can be subject to life imprisonment or even death.





Utter nonsense. There is not a single poster in this thread that suggests anything like this at all, even uber pro Israeli supporters like Zev.

Meanwhile there is a belief that Hamas are just doing what they believe is right for the people of Palestine and had no choice but to respond in the way they did on Oct 7 by a core group of posters in this thread.

Any Palestinian leader agreeing to a two-state solution is liable to be assassinated by extremists.

 

[Zidane98]

Any Palestinian leader agreeing to a two-state solution is liable to be assassinated by extremists.

Rabin also was assassinated by the extreme far Israeli right for negotiating a two state solution so let's not pretend it is just the Palestinian side guilty of this stuff.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Rabin also was assassinated by the extreme far Israeli right for negotiating a two state solution so let's not pretend it is just the Palestinian side guilty of this stuff.

I daresay the world and attitudes have changed vastly in the 30 years since then. I'm not sure that Islamism has though.

 

[faible]

Meanwhile there is a belief that Hamas are just doing what they believe is right for the people of Palestine and had no choice but to respond in the way they did on Oct 7 by a core group of posters in this thread.

Please, enlighten us as to who exactly these posters are.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Aid agencies accuse Israel of failing to provide enough support to Gaza as US deadline passes

The US will continue to provide military assistance to the Netanyahu government, despite aid agencies saying it has fallen short of providing enough aid to the wartorn region.

www.abc.net.au

If you give someone an ultimatum, they fail to meet it, but there's no consequences whatsoever and you continue to support them, it's not really an ultimatum.

October saw less aid than any previous month.

Was always a desperate stunt to win the Dems some votes. Were never going to follow through.

 

[faible]

I daresay the world and attitudes have changed vastly in the 30 years since then. I'm not sure that Islamism has though.

Undoubtedly the Israeli Government is far more extreme.

 

[DapperDon]

I daresay the world and attitudes have changed vastly in the 30 years since then. I'm not sure that Islamism has though.

Just put a pillow cover over your head and be done with the charade Dogs

 

[jason_recliner]

October saw less aid than any previous month.

Was always a desperate stunt to win the Dems some votes. Were never going to follow through.

Wait, what? That CAN'T be right! Only the other day I read that the impoverished Gazans are welcoming their generous benevolent Israeli benefactors with open arms!