Current WAR CRIMES Israel - * ICC issues warrants for Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu & Yoav Gallant & for Hamas's Mohammed Deif

[Kurve]

The ICC has also issued a warrant for Hamas leader Mohammed Deif, who Israel says they have killed.

According to the ICC, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that Deif was “responsible for the crimes against humanity of murder; extermination; torture; and rape and other form of sexual violence; as well as the war crimes of murder, cruel treatment, torture; taking hostages; outrages upon personal dignity; and rape and other form of sexual violence”.

It also said there were reasonable grounds to believe the crimes against humanity were “part of a widespread and systematic attack directed by Hamas and other armed groups against the civilian population of Israel”.

For Netanyahu and Gallant, who was replaced as defence minister earlier this month, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that they “each bear criminal responsibility for the following crimes as co-perpetrators for committing the acts jointly with others: the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare; and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts”.

It also found reasonable grounds to believe that “each bear criminal responsibility as civilian superiors for the war crime of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population”.




INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT

INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT - Elements of Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes

 

[Zidane98]

To save everyone the trouble let's skip past the invariable responses from faible where he fails to back the accusation he makes against a fellow poster and goes on to post various personal attacks / whataboutisms instead.


It'll save everyone a lot of time and effort.

 

[faible]

Imagine a poster dishonest enough to accuse someone of "rewriting history" without bothering to explain how / why they believe such a thing.

Dishonest posting 101 here. Absolutely not surprising coming from a poster who is well known for such behaviour.

Why would anyone waste their time?

You've had it explained to you, in detail, why your claims are wrong.

Instead of adjusting your arguments, you'll call someone pro-Hamas, use the term 'whataboutism' in completely the wrong way, demand they condemn Hamas harder, and repeat ad nauseum.

There's not a discussion to be had with you, because of your daily amnesia.

 

[faible]

use the term 'whataboutism'

whataboutisms

**** me I hadn't even seen your post when I wrote that. The predictability of it all.

 

[Zidane98]

**** me I hadn't even seen your post when I wrote that. The predictability of it all.

Still failing to back your argument again and again.

Are you this dishonest in real life?

 

[faible]

Still failing to back your argument again and again.

Are you this dishonest in real life?

wah Zidane cries when people who've spent months attempting to engage with him in good faith don't waste their time on rehashing the same arguments he's tried to use for months.

 

[Zidane98]

Why would anyone waste their time?

You've had it explained to you, in detail, why your claims are wrong.

Instead of adjusting your arguments, you'll call someone pro-Hamas, use the term 'whataboutism' in completely the wrong way, demand they condemn Hamas harder, and repeat ad nauseum.

There's not a discussion to be had with you, because of your daily amnesia.

So instead of backing your accusations you make about another poster attempting to "rewrite history" you go on the attack yet again.

Honestly it is farcical from you right now.

And yes you are a dishonest poster in the extreme. If you believed what you posted you wouldn't be going on the attack for one second

And yet here we are.

 

[Zidane98]

wah Zidane cries when people who've spent months attempting to engage with him in good faith don't waste their time on rehashing the same arguments he's tried to use for months.

How's your backing up of your accusation going dishonestable?

Incredible here we are you going on a personal attack instead of attempting to back up what you claimed.

I'm sure a dishonesty badge awaits.

 

[faible]

So instead of backing your accusations you make about another poster attempting to "rewrite history" you go on the attack yet again.

Honestly it is farcical from you right now.

And yes you are a dishonest poster in the extreme. If you believed what you posted you wouldn't be going on the attack for one second

And yet here we are.

As I've already said:

Why would anyone waste their time?

You've had it explained to you, in detail, why your claims are wrong.

Instead of adjusting your arguments, you'll call someone pro-Hamas, use the term 'whataboutism' in completely the wrong way, demand they condemn Hamas harder, and repeat ad nauseum.

There's not a discussion to be had with you, because of your daily amnesia.

 

[DapperDon]

Arab world refused the UN partition plan in 1947.

Israel offered a pretty good two state solution in 2008 that was turned down by Palestine.

Clinton parameters were refused also in 2000.

Constantly refusing two state solutions in favour of war isn't helpful and has contributed to the far right gaining power who are not interested in offering anything.


All this aside it is none of this is reason at all for Hamas to break a ceasefire agreement on Oct 7 and launch one of the biggest terror attacks seen this century - especially as Israel had just accepted a demand from Hamas literally on Sept 29 for 18000 Gazan work permits.

 

[Zidane98]

As I've already said:

You do realise you make yourself look more silly everytime you post personal attacks instead of actually backing up an accusation you made against another poster?


Surely you can't be this dense.


It is pretty clear you don't believe your claim of my attempt to "rewrite history".

No poster with an ounce of honesty would respond by a plethora of personal attacks instead of actually justifying the claim they've made.

I sincerely hope you don't behave like this in day to day life for your sake.

 

[faible]

You do realise you make yourself look more silly everytime you post personal attacks instead of actually backing up an accusation you made against another poster?


Surely you can't be this dense.


It is pretty clear you don't believe your claim of my attempt to "rewrite history".

No poster with an ounce of honesty would respond by a plethora of personal attacks instead of actually justifying the claim they've made.

I sincerely hope you don't behave like this in day to day life for your sake.

Why waste my time though?

You've had the exact same discussion with at least one other poster who responded - in depth - about it.

Instead of taking it onboard, you just hit reset and pretend it all never happened.

 

[Kurve]

Let's move on from the personal bickering. Thanks.

 

[Kurve]

 

[faible]

I doubt we'll ever know for sure, but I imagine large scale bombing would result in significant risk to hostages being lost, injured, or killed.

Wouldn't be surprising that Hamas has lost track of a number of them. Hopefully their families still get closure at some point in the future.

 

[Kurve]

I doubt we'll ever know for sure, but I imagine large scale bombing would result in significant risk to hostages being lost, injured, or killed.

Wouldn't be surprising that Hamas has lost track of a number of them. Hopefully their families still get closure at some point in the future.

For sure, some will have been lost in the bombings, some may have died when their captors were killed and they couldn't get out, which doesn't bear thinking about.

Some of them I suspect were taken out of Gaza and they're underground in the Sinai, swarming with Egypt's military up top.

Their parents will never know what happened to them and it will haunt them for the rest of their lives, living with the hope however small, that they're still alive and might somehow, some day, find their way back.

 

[Zidane98]

* reset *

What's personal about it?

You accused a poster of "rewriting history".which is nonsense. In a normal discussion you would then respond by explaining your claim.

Instead of this all you could muster up in response was a personal attack.

This clearly suggests you never believed the claim you were making.

Kurve I am sure would prefer if you actually backed up your claims in the future or don't make them at all.

 

[Jazny]

Your assertion that the desolation of Rafah is just ordinary damage from an ordinary war.

Are you suggesting there was not heavy fighting in Rafah and the widespread destruction is from Israeli excavators pulling down buildings for no reason? If there was heavy fighting, what should Rafah look like? Considering 3 buildings were damaged,one destroyed, just in the small firefighting that killed Sinwar? Imagine the destruction caused by large scale fighting.

Of course there's no official policy of directly targeting civilians, not even Israeli society is that twisted.

Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups do.

Why do you play these sematic games? A policy of targeting civilians is not a requirement for war crimes, nor for genocide.

Who said it was? Weird statement. I have said a number of times over and over again I believe that war crimes are being committed by Israeli soldiers. I don't know on what scale.

To produce the results they want, we know from multiple sources the IDF have a longstanding policy of shooting any Palestinians who cross their imaginary lines, no matter whether they actually believe they are Hamas or not, or whether they are holding a weapon or not.

I wouldnt be surprised if we see some war crimes charges happening around the Netzarim corridor.

I need to sort of collect as much testimony and counter testimony around it as possible to have strong thoughts, but even though I think you are presenting the known facts in a misleading way (I don't think soldiers are deliberately shooting people they think are civilians not participating in hostilities just in order to inflate the numbers), I also think based on my understanding of international law and what's happening at the corridor, that the rules of engagement along the Netzarim corridor are likely illegal.

I think the corridor would be legal if Israeli soldiers were always giving warning shots to people they assess as posing no immediate threat, and possibly trying to detain them before killing them if they ignore the warnings, but it seems this isn't what's happening? I don't know, the IDF does claim they try and detain civilians crossing the corridor but the Haaretz article raises very credible reports this isn't happening on all occasions, but again I don't know.

I know rules of engagement around checkpoints can often be really weird. There are many stories of civilians being killed in Iraq and Afghanistan for failing to stop at checkpoints by US soldiers. Then there are zones which is just totally obvious civilians can't approach without extreme danger, like military trenches or frontlines. They will probably just be shot for being suspected of reconnaissance or in some other way posing a threat.

From what I gather, based on Palestinian testimony and Israeli, is that it's very obvious you can't cross the corridor. It's not surprising that most people being shot for trying to cross it aren't armed Hamas fighters, that would be suicidal. My understanding it's a big wide flat area with Israeli military stationed throughout. Any Hamas fighter with a weapon trying to cross would just be shot without a second thought, they have no chance of getting close to crossing it. The Israeli military reports that Hamas sends civilians into the corridor instead to test how Israel responds in certain areas. I find this credible also.

Again, I don't think there should be lines inside the corridor where anyone entering is shot. That's really messed up, unless those lines are extremely close to where troops are stationed. But they should be getting warning shots before they get close to those. It has to be said too, I don't think many civilians would be uniformed enough to just be wandering around the corridor oblivious to the danger. It's not like its a hot bed of civilian activity, it's a big flat military area they are warned not to cross. Again, I haven't been there to confirm, but that's my understanding from what I have read and the photos I have seen.

Regardless, unless some new information comes out, I will probably agree with a lot of what you have to say about the Netzarim corridor. But I am also cautious of information and testimony being overly sensationalised. Not carrying a weapon, for example, does not necessarily mean they are innocent civilians. Nor does the fact they aren't known to be Hamas members.

 

[Kurve]

I am sure would prefer if you actually backed up your claims in the future or don't make them at all.

Of course but there doesn't appear to be any interest in it atm.

 

[Zidane98]

Of course but there doesn't appear to be any interest in it atm.

Think a put up or shut up policy should apply.

Otherwise it adds nothing to the discussion.

 

[Kurve]

Think a put up or shut up policy should apply.

Otherwise it adds nothing to the discussion.

I already put a notice up, which means essentially the same thing. In a mod voice.

 

[Zidane98]

I already put a notice up, which means essentially the same thing. In a mod voice.

If only they left the diplomacy of negotiating a end to the war to yourself it would be already over!

 

[DapperDon]

Think a put up or shut up policy should apply.

Otherwise it adds nothing to the discussion.

Does this mean actual facts, or can we/you continue to post unverified x posts as a source?

 

[Kurve]

Does this mean actual facts, or can we/you continue to post unverified x posts as a source?

The point is Zidane's posts should be countered with facts.

Faible says he's already done this but there's no reason someone else can't step in and do it. Or ignore it altogether and we skip on to discussing something else.

 

[DapperDon]

The point is Zidane's posts should be countered with facts.

Faible says he's already done this but there's no reason someone else can't step in and do it. Or ignore it altogether.

Surely you can see the circle work of Zidane though, he really does begin as new every day.

Agree on the ignore part though, but if someone continues to say people are pro-hamas then that should need factual posts rather than just 'feels'

 

[Kurve]

Bedouins, the father was executed. I don't think there's a whole body of the son yet.