Current WAR CRIMES Israel - * ICC issues warrants for Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu & Yoav Gallant & for Hamas's Mohammed Deif

[Kurve]

The ICC has also issued a warrant for Hamas leader Mohammed Deif, who Israel says they have killed.

According to the ICC, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that Deif was “responsible for the crimes against humanity of murder; extermination; torture; and rape and other form of sexual violence; as well as the war crimes of murder, cruel treatment, torture; taking hostages; outrages upon personal dignity; and rape and other form of sexual violence”.

It also said there were reasonable grounds to believe the crimes against humanity were “part of a widespread and systematic attack directed by Hamas and other armed groups against the civilian population of Israel”.

For Netanyahu and Gallant, who was replaced as defence minister earlier this month, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that they “each bear criminal responsibility for the following crimes as co-perpetrators for committing the acts jointly with others: the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare; and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts”.

It also found reasonable grounds to believe that “each bear criminal responsibility as civilian superiors for the war crime of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population”.




INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT

INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT - Elements of Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Hamas governs Gaza as a militant dictatorship, elections not allowed and this isn't on the people. They got conned, it happens.

Even if that is true and I don't doubt it is, how is that any concern of Israel? They want to be left alone and not have terrorist attacks and murders. it continues to happen. Israel need to respond differently because past minor incursions don't work.

 

[faible]

Two state solutions have been offered a total of 16 times I understand. None have ever been considered acceptable to Palestine. Why? Because their view is Israel are occupiers and the country of Israel is on Palestinian land. That is the saying ...."from the river to the sea"...Jordan river to Mediterranean Sea. ie they want genocide. The only solution acceptable to Palestine is eradication of Israel entirely. There is no compromise where two countries could live peacefully side by side. That is on Palestine not Israel. Israel just wants to exist and live peacefully as evidence by the peaceful co existence that occurs with Arab Muslims within Israel. Virtually all ME countries that surround them would happily have genocide occur to have Israel cease to exist

What's happening is horrible but entirely predictable when there has never been commitment to peaceful co-existence

This simply isn't accurate.

 

[faible]

Even if that is true and I don't doubt it is, how is that any concern of Israel? They want to be left alone and not have terrorist attacks and murders. it continues to happen. Israel need to respond differently because past minor incursions don't work.

Pretty sure 'let's commit war crimes and a bit of genocide' is never an acceptable response.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Pretty sure 'let's commit war crimes and a bit of genocide' is never an acceptable response.

The time to consider consequences of terrorist acts and murders is before you commit them not after. Israel were always going to respond. Hard lesson but one of cause and effect.

 

[faible]

The time to consider consequences of terrorist acts and murders is before you commit them not after. Israel were always going to respond. Hard lesson but one of cause and effect.

Yes, and I've not seen a single person argue that the actual terrorists shouldn't be punished for them.

Punishing the ~ 2.2m Palestinian residents of Gaza as a whole? That's not 'cause and effect', that's a war crime. It's called Collective Punishment.

You also seem to entirely fail to understand the context that has lead us up to here, where Israel have spend decades doing horrendous things to the Palestinian people as well. They're not an innocent party.

 

[FIGJAM]

Yes, and I've not seen a single person argue that the actual terrorists shouldn't be punished for them.

Punishing the ~ 2.2m Palestinian residents of Gaza as a whole? That's not 'cause and effect', that's a war crime. It's called Collective Punishment.

You also seem to entirely fail to understand the context that has lead us up to here, where Israel have spend decades doing horrendous things to the Palestinian people as well. They're not an innocent party.

Isn't Israel's stated objective against Hamas, who even Hamas agree are the instigators of October 7 terrorist attacks (war crime) and the continued holders of civilian hostages (war crime)?

It's ****ing shithouse that Hamas goaded Israel's dumb arse right wing government into this and continue to use Gazan's as a human shields, ordering locals not to relocate to safety (war crime) and firing missiles from within residential areas (war crime).

Outside of random attacks along the lines of the Port Arthur or Hoddle Street massacres, no terrorist attack "happens in a bubble" (to paraphrase the UN). But you can't just go "I condemn the terrorist attacks, but because Israel have done some dumb shit, it is sort of justifiable.". Either you condemn it wholeheartedly or you don't.

It's be ****en nice if Israel did nothing and let the world's gaze embarrass Hamas into submission. And if Israel could issue Hamas with a summons to appear in a court first thing Monday morning. But these things are unfortunately fanciful and the warfare that is happening is sadly the exact results that one would expect. While it may appear to you that Israel are intentionally hurting Gazans for the sake of it, I think their directives to clear certain areas shows that it's not the case.

 

[faible]

Isn't Israel's stated objective against Hamas, who even Hamas agree are the instigators of October 7 terrorist attacks (war crime) and the continued holders of civilian hostages (war crime)?

It's ******* shithouse that Hamas goaded Israel's dumb arse right wing government into this and continue to use Gazan's as a human shields, ordering locals not to relocate to safety (war crime) and firing missiles from within residential areas (war crime).

Outside of random attacks along the lines of the Port Arthur or Hoddle Street massacres, no terrorist attack "happens in a bubble" (to paraphrase the UN). But you can't just go "I condemn the terrorist attacks, but because Israel have done some dumb s**t, it is sort of justifiable.". Either you condemn it wholeheartedly or you don't.

It's be *en nice if Israel did nothing and let the world's gaze embarrass Hamas into submission. And if Israel could issue Hamas with a summons to appear in a court first thing Monday morning. But these things are unfortunately fanciful and the warfare that is happening is sadly the exact results that one would expect. While it may appear to you that Israel are intentionally hurting Gazans for the sake of it, I think their directives to clear certain areas shows that it's not the case.

Israel's stated aim is just that, stated.

Look at their actions, look at what many members of their government and the IDF are saying.

The slaughter, injury and mass displacement of civilians isn't unfortunate collateral, it's intentional.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation, what's Israel's excuse for doing far, far worse?

 

[jason_recliner]

Isn't Israel's stated objective against Hamas, who even Hamas agree are the instigators of October 7 terrorist attacks (war crime) and the continued holders of civilian hostages (war crime)?

It's ******* shithouse that Hamas goaded Israel's dumb arse right wing government into this and continue to use Gazan's as a human shields, ordering locals not to relocate to safety (war crime) and firing missiles from within residential areas (war crime).

Outside of random attacks along the lines of the Port Arthur or Hoddle Street massacres, no terrorist attack "happens in a bubble" (to paraphrase the UN). But you can't just go "I condemn the terrorist attacks, but because Israel have done some dumb s**t, it is sort of justifiable.". Either you condemn it wholeheartedly or you don't.

It's be *en nice if Israel did nothing and let the world's gaze embarrass Hamas into submission. And if Israel could issue Hamas with a summons to appear in a court first thing Monday morning. But these things are unfortunately fanciful and the warfare that is happening is sadly the exact results that one would expect. While it may appear to you that Israel are intentionally hurting Gazans for the sake of it, I think their directives to clear certain areas shows that it's not the case.

Nobody here is condemning other than wholeheartedly the horrific terrorist attacks by Hamas on Israel. Some on here are trying to justify terror and war crimes inflicted by Israel on an innocent civilian populace.

 

[FIGJAM]

Nobody here is condemning other than wholeheartedly the horrific terrorist attacks by Hamas on Israel. Some on here are trying to justify terror and war crimes inflicted by Israel on an innocent civilian populace.

I disagree with your first statement and there literally is an example of "I condemn the actions, but Israel have been arseholes" in just a couple of posts above.

Your second statement needs to be viewed strictly through your lens, whereby Israel are basically engaging in wanton destruction against Gazans and Palestinians, which is demonstrably incorrect. People not viewing it your way appear to you to be "justifying" the horrors of this warfare, which is also incorrect.

 

[jason_recliner]

I disagree with your first statement and there literally is an example of "I condemn the actions, but Israel have been arseholes" in just a couple of posts above.

Your second statement needs to be viewed strictly through your lens, whereby Israel are basically engaging in wanton destruction against Gazans and Palestinians, which is demonstrably incorrect. People not viewing it your way appear to you to be "justifying" the horrors of this warfare, which is also incorrect.

You're entitled to your opinion, obviously, but you're wrong. The evidence (~20,000 women and children killed already and no end in sight) is plain to see. You can justify/defend terror and war crimes or condemn them.

 

[FIGJAM]

You're entitled to your opinion, obviously, but you're wrong. The evidence (~20,000 women and children killed already and no end in sight) is plain to see.

What do you exactly do you expect urban warfare to look like?

Was the Battle of Berlin that resulted in 125,000 civilian casualties in 16 days, including women and children, "terror and war crimes" from the Allies, or was it warfare to protect its collective interests from an existential threat?

Nobody likes what is happening and as I've said that Israel's best course of action was doing nothing, but in light of then not doing nothing, they're engaging in urban warfare with all of its hellish consequences.

 

[jason_recliner]

What do you exactly do you expect urban warfare to look like?

Was the Battle of Berlin that resulted in 125,000 civilian casualties in 16 days, including women and children, "terror and war crimes" from the Allies, or was it warfare to protect its collective interests from an existential threat?

Nobody likes what is happening and as I've said that Israel's best course of action was doing nothing, but in light of then not doing nothing, they're engaging in urban warfare with all of its hellish consequences.

"Warfare" implies two armies or militant organisations battling. Bombing and shelling civilians is not warfare. Regardless, what I think warfare looks like is not relevant. Israel is committing heinous war crimes and inflicting terror and atrocities on hundreds of thousands innocent civilians, hence the discussion on a crime board. You can say "nobody likes" it but you and others have defended it as somehow justifiable/proportionate/inevitable/unavoidable. It is none of those things.

 

[FIGJAM]

"Warfare" implies two armies or militant organisations battling.

Do you think that Hamas aren't firing bullets? RPG's? Missiles?

And if they are (and they literally are!) then you by your own definition agree that it is warfare.

Also, are Hamas not holding hostages?

 

[jason_recliner]

Do you think that Hamas aren't firing bullets? RPG's? Missiles?

And if they are (and they literally are!) then you by your own definition agree that it is warfare.

Also, are Hamas not holding hostages?

Regardless, what I think warfare looks like is not relevant. Israel is committing heinous war crimes and inflicting terror and atrocities on hundreds of thousands innocent civilians...

What's your point? You either condemn the murders of innocent women and children or you don't.

 

[FIGJAM]

Regardless, what I think warfare looks like is not relevant. Israel is committing heinous war crimes and inflicting terror and atrocities on hundreds of thousands innocent civilians...

What's your point? You either condemn the murders of innocent women and children or you don't.

I condemn all warfare and terrorist attacks because of what happens to hundreds and thousands of innocent civilians, in terms of death, injuries, trauma, destruction of perfectly good property and the fact that this will only resurface again in the future.

Point is though, we don't live in a Utopia at this point in time. So if one side goes into another's territory, randomly shoots and rapes thousands of them, taking many hostage, then the other declares war and chases them back into their own territory, with both parties (including the one still holding hostages) shooting guns, grenades and missiles at each other for months on end, then how does that not present as run of the mill warfare?

Why do you feel to bang pots all the time while decrying with "war crimes", "terror" and some others use "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing"? It's just ****ing war! It sucks balls!!

 

[jason_recliner]

I condemn all warfare and terrorist attacks because of what happens to hundreds and thousands of innocent civilians, in terms of death, injuries, trauma, destruction of perfectly good property and the fact that this will only resurface again in the future.

Point is though, we don't live in a Utopia at this point in time. So if one side goes into another's territory, randomly shoots and rapes thousands of them, taking many hostage, then the other declares war and chases them back into their own territory, with both parties (including the one still holding hostages) shooting guns, grenades and missiles at each other for months on end, then how does that not present as run of the mill warfare?

Why do you feel to bang pots all the time while decrying with "war crimes", "terror" and some others use "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing"? It's just ******* war! It sucks balls!!

Because in "run of the mill warfare", an army/militants targets another army/militants while following the laws of war. One/both sides target the enemy/perpetrators, not innocent people. In this case, a terrorist organisation has committed crimes against Israel and humanity, and Israel, rather than target the perpetrators, has retailiated against an innocent civilian pupulace. That seems anything but "run of the mill" to me.

I "feel the need to bang pots all the time while decrying with "war crimes", "terror"" because war crimes at the upper end of severity are being committed, it's disgusting, atrocious, and inexcusable, and this is a forum for discussion of crimes. Admittedly, I feel the law is not always right when I see murderers, rapists and child molesters going free or receiving light sentences, but I feel the laws of war must be followed to protect innocent people. You are very vocal on the rule of law being sacrosanct when it comes to defending a rapist (Leerman); why are the laws of war are not as important to you?

 

[faible]

So if one side goes into another's territory, randomly shoots and rapes thousands of them, taking many hostage

You might want to read a little about what happened to the Palestinian people during the Nakba....

 

[faible]

What do you exactly do you expect urban warfare to look like?

Referring to it as 'warfare' is a highly misleading representation of events.

A small portion of the dead are actual militants, even Israel admits this. Meanwhile they've herded most of the ~ 2.2m residents of Gaza in to Rafah, having bombed or otherwise destroyed the vast majority of infrastructure required for civilian life e.g. homes, roads, schools, kindergartens, universities, places of government, culturally important sites, and graveyards in the rest of Gaza.

They're now commencing attacks on Rafah, where they herded the civilians and told them it was safe.

They've done all this under the guide of 'getting Hamas'.

To me it looks a hell of a lot like they're doing exactly what they want to do; remove the Palestinian people from Gaza whether by death or displacement. They keep telling us that what they want to do, they keep showing us that's what they want to do.

How anyone can legitimately believe their sole - or even primary - aim is getting Hamas whilst looking at their actions and statements made by members of the government and IDF is beyond me. They're hardly making it subtle.

People keep telling us Israel needs to do this because of what Hamas says it wants to do to Israel. Well, Israel is actually doing to Palestinians what they keep accusing Hamas of wanting to do, despite Hamas not having the capability to do so. And you're supporting it.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Yes, and I've not seen a single person argue that the actual terrorists shouldn't be punished for them.

Punishing the ~ 2.2m Palestinian residents of Gaza as a whole? That's not 'cause and effect', that's a war crime. It's called Collective Punishment.

You also seem to entirely fail to understand the context that has lead us up to here, where Israel have spend decades doing horrendous things to the Palestinian people as well. They're not an
innocent party.

And every single instance of aggression by Israel was a retaliation for murders by Palestine. Israel has 14% Arab Muslim population who live in harmony. All Palestine has to do is stop attempting to murder and peacefully accept a two state situation to live in peace. They can't. 75 years of this BS!!!

 

[FIGJAM]

Because in "run of the mill warfare", an army/militants targets another army/militants while following the laws of war. One/both sides target the enemy/perpetrators, not innocent people. In this case, a terrorist organisation has committed crimes against Israel and humanity, and Israel, rather than target the perpetrators, has retailiated against an innocent civilian pupulace. That seems anything but "run of the mill" to me.

I "feel the need to bang pots all the time while decrying with "war crimes", "terror"" because war crimes at the upper end of severity are being committed, it's disgusting, atrocious, and inexcusable, and this is a forum for discussion of crimes. Admittedly, I feel the law is not always right when I see murderers, rapists and child molesters going free or receiving light sentences, but I feel the laws of war must be followed to protect innocent people. You are very vocal on the rule of law being sacrosanct when it comes to defending a rapist (Leerman); why are the laws of war are not as important to you?

If you want to discuss the legal side of things, what did the ICJ have to say about proceedings?

And you can get stuffed on the me defending Lehrmann shit! I've never defended that probable rapist. I'm just pro-using the legal system that is in place rather than using the media (or social media for that matter).

And you're supporting it.

Just because I don't view it through your lens, doesn't mean I "support" anything.

I'm anti-war.

Pro peace.

Wished Israel did nothing.

Want it to stop yesterday.

Yet I'm "supporting it"?

Get you hand off it bud!

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Grandma shot while carrying white flag

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/26/...-white-flag-shooting-gaza-cmd-intl/index.html

World media are pushing propaganda. We don't know who killed the woman. What we do know is that Palestinians are warned under threat of life by Hamas not to abandon their homes. They want them as shields and pawns in a game to garner world support which is exactly what CNN is doing.

The first in line was shot. She turned away hinting that something was spoken or threatened CLOSE by not 200 meters away with sharp shooter. Most likely it was Hamas carrying out their threat not to leave and killing her

Rubbish report

Addendum
Possible scenario

The film was Hamas film being way behind lines. It was after directive given to residents not to leave to safety. When the grandmother was almost across the space she reacted to something said or threatened CLOSE by because she turned away before being killed. People all uniformly then moved away to their left in accordance with the instruction. Hamas then gave the film to CNN and stated where the IDF positions were and saying it was IDF that killed her. If CNN were to publish the possibility that it was instead Hamas they wouldn't get any more front line video clips so they run with what they have and become Hamas pawns in the propaganda game they are playing.

 

[jason_recliner]

World media are pushing propaganda. We don't know who killed the woman. What we do know is that Palestinians are warned under threat of life by Hamas not to abandon their homes. They want them as shields and pawns in a game to garner world support which is exactly what CNN is doing.

The first in line was shot. She turned away hinting that something was spoken or threatened CLOSE by not 200 meters away with sharp shooter. Most likely it was Hamas carrying out their threat not to leave and killing her

Rubbish report

Any opportunity to punch down, eh?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Any opportunity to punch down, eh?

No. I just don't buy into MSM doing reports which lack any investigative analysis.

You need to be objective and always analyze this with that objectivity. I can't tell where the shot came from or by whom.....nor can CNN. Yet they did this whole piece pushing propaganda it was either tanks or troops 200 meters away. She was a grandmother. Could she even see 200 meters away? ...let alone a gun pointed in her direction? Rubbish

 

[jason_recliner]

No. I just don't buy into MSM doing reports which lack any investigative analysis.

You need to be objective and always analyze this with that objectivity. I can't tell where the shot came from or by whom.....nor can CNN. Yet they did this whole piece pushing propaganda it was either tanks or troops 200 meters away. She was a grandmother. Could she even see 200 meters away? ...let alone a gun pointed in her direction? Rubbish

Yes, you do, always, everywhere, and you tediously quote endless potentially biased reports. Forget about the Grandma you are sure Hamas shot, then, and think about the 20,000 women and children murdered by the IDF. Plenty to punch down at there.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Yes, you do, always, everywhere, and you tediously quote endless potentially biased reports. Forget about the Grandma you are sure Hamas shot, then, and think about the 20,000 women and children murdered by the IDF. Plenty to punch down at there.

Did you even question how and why they were being filmed and by whom? Was it CNN or was it Hamas doing a propaganda clip knowing they had a line in sand and would kill and blame IDF? I don't know that answer so we ALL need to be cautious not to jump to conclusions

I'm not asking you to read or respond to my posts. Don't. If you do you need to come to grips with the fact I don't draw my self worth from opinions of others....ever. Just not important to me. So if I annoy you I'm sorry but it is as it is.