Current WAR CRIMES Israel - * ICC issues warrants for Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu & Yoav Gallant & for Hamas's Mohammed Deif

[Kurve]

The ICC has also issued a warrant for Hamas leader Mohammed Deif, who Israel says they have killed.

According to the ICC, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that Deif was “responsible for the crimes against humanity of murder; extermination; torture; and rape and other form of sexual violence; as well as the war crimes of murder, cruel treatment, torture; taking hostages; outrages upon personal dignity; and rape and other form of sexual violence”.

It also said there were reasonable grounds to believe the crimes against humanity were “part of a widespread and systematic attack directed by Hamas and other armed groups against the civilian population of Israel”.

For Netanyahu and Gallant, who was replaced as defence minister earlier this month, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that they “each bear criminal responsibility for the following crimes as co-perpetrators for committing the acts jointly with others: the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare; and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts”.

It also found reasonable grounds to believe that “each bear criminal responsibility as civilian superiors for the war crime of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population”.




INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT

INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT - Elements of Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Cool propaganda. If you go to her instagram you find posts like this.

View attachment 2195144

You should see this guy's instagram!

 

[DapperDon]

Cool propaganda. If you go to her instagram you find posts like this.

View attachment 2195144

This one hit you close to home I feel

It's ok, only most us think you don't care about the innocent Palestinians.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Like it or not, it is not a conspiracy theory to suggest they were doing the bidding of Iran where the goal was not a two state solution.

Do you have an article or something that Hamas were acting on instructions from Iran? What are you basing this opinion on? Everything I've seen said they weren't.

They don't want a two state solution.

What do you base this on? The 1988 charter is usually pointed to, and it clearly sanctions the killing of Jews and is inexcusably antisemitic. Israel's actual practice is the equivalent, military, border police and settlers kill Palestinians at will, Palestinians are labelled as vermin and cockroaches by members of the military, Knesset and rabbinic establishment. The JNFs stated aim is “to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people” - hardly any better.

The charter update and their statements since admit that the state of Israel is a fact and a reality, and is not going away.

I'm not endorsing their methods, even though they are the methods of the creation of Israel itself, but they have tried peaceful means for many years. Hamas have asked many times for ceasefires, and stated repeatedly that they would lay down their weapons in return for a Palestinian state on 1967 borders.

"The problem is not that there is an entity called Israel. The problem is that the Palestinian state is non-existent."

In 1992 Hamas publicly endorsed the Pan Arab League's full acceptance of Israel by all 22 Arab nations. All Israel had to do was end the illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and recognise that Palestinians have rights under international law. Israel ignored the offer out of hand.

In 1997 Hamas offered a 30-year truce if Israel would only abide by international law when it came to Palestinian human rights, and to pull back to 1967 borders. Israel's response was to attempt to assassinate Hamas' political chief Khaled Meshal, under orders from Netanyahu. Mossad agents using fake Canadian passports and disguised as tourists tried to kill him with poison. After threats from Clinton, Netanyahu had to hand over the antidote.

December 2003 Ahmed Yasin offered a cease to all hostilities in exchange for Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories, he was soon after assassinated.

Early 2004 Yasin's successor al-Rantisi proposed a 10-year truce. Israel assassinated him 1 month after Yasin.

After they were elected in 2006 Haniyeh wrote a letter to Bush stating as such, offering a complete truce for 10 years automatically renewed if Israel pulled back to the 1967 borders. Israel refused to recognise the outcome of the elections and cut the flow of goods in an out of Gaza.

They restricted food imports to below minimum caloric intake, triggering chronic malnutrition amongst Gazan children. Anaemia, Typhoid and infant diarrhoea all rose sharply.

“It’s like meeting with a dietician. We have to make [Gazans] much thinner, but not enough to die.” - Dov Weisglass

A collective punishment was inflicted on the people of Gaza.

“America and the EU [European Union] shamelessly joined Israel in ostracizing and demonizing the Hamas government and in trying to bring it down by withholding tax revenues and foreign aid. A surreal situation thus developed with a significant part of the international community imposing economic sanctions not against the occupier but against the occupied, not against the oppressor but against the oppressed. As so often in the tragic history of Palestine, the victims were blamed for their own misfortunes.” - Avi Shlaim

Israel has since refused all dialogue, and instead intensified their oppression and support of settlements.

"Terrorism is a terrible thing. But the fact remains that when a small nation is ruled by a larger power, terror is the only means at their disposal. This has always been true .... If we want to end terrorism [against Israel], we must end the occupation and make peace." - Matti Peled, Israeli General

Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the world: 'Ye shall blot them out to the last man.' But first and foremost, terrorism is for us a part of the political battle being conducted under the present circumstances, and it has a great part to play: speaking in a clear voice to the whole world...: it proclaims our war against the occupier. (Hehazit / The Front, underground journal, 1943).

Of course all killing of innocent people is wrong and should be denounced by everyone. But you can't claim this is some eternal battle to the death, with one side just trying to survive in peace. It just doesn't reflect reality.

The main terrorist groups in the Palestinian territories do terrorism in order to eradicate Israel. This is something you need to start coming to terms with. That's why after the Gaza withdrawal, Hamas came to power, started doing terrorism firing thousands of rockets into Israel between 2005-07, and then Israel and Egypt imposed a formal blockade for security reasons. Can you imagine how stupid Israel would have to be not to blockade Gaza with Hamas in power?

Hamas isn't fighting to remove a blockade, they are fighting to destroy Israel. That's why the Hamas charter goes on about killing Jews. It's also why October 7th mass attack wasn't aimed at breaking any blockade or any valid military objective at all. They went in to kill and take Israelis hostage.

I'll put this down to common ignorance, and not malice, but this is self-serving one sided drivel. Fantasy used to keep Israelis living in permanent fear and excusing Israel's countless violations of international law.

Why can't the PA and representative of Gaza, whoever that might be moving forward, be given a say or a seat already in the Knesset? That might be a good start.

Because that would put in danger Israel's status as for the Jews only. This is the whole reason they will never agree to a right of Palestinian return to their homes and villages pre-Nakba - they must have superiority in their nation, and a majority of the population of Israel must forever remain Jewish.

 

[Kurve]

Do you have an article or something that Hamas were acting on instructions from Iran? What are you basing this opinion on? Everything I've seen said they weren't.

It's already in this thread. There's many other remarks that only lead to one conclusion.

On 3 June 2024, Khamenei stated that the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel was "necessary for the region" due to plans "by the US, Zionist individuals, their followers, and some of the region's countries to change the equation in the region," describing the attack as "a huge blow to Israel." This statement was criticized by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who said Khamenei's remarks "clearly announce that their goal is to sacrifice the blood of Palestinians and thousands of children, women, and the elderly, and to destroy Palestinian land," adding that the Iranian policies "do not serve the Palestinian national goals of liberating Jerusalem."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-presidency-hits-back-remarks-by-irans-khamenei-oct-7-attack-2024-06-03/

Palestinian President Abbas criticises Iran's Khamenei over praise for Hamas attacks | The National

Mahmoud Abbas says Iranian supreme leader's praise of October 7 attacks despite impact on Gaza shows 'their goal is to sacrifice the blood of Palestinians'

www.thenationalnews.com

Palestinian President Abbas criticises Iran's Khamenei over praise for Hamas attacks | The National

Mahmoud Abbas says Iranian supreme leader's praise of October 7 attacks despite impact on Gaza shows 'their goal is to sacrifice the blood of Palestinians'

www.thenationalnews.com

 

[Kurve]

What do you base this on? The 1988 charter is usually pointed to, and it clearly sanctions the killing of Jews and is inexcusably antisemitic. Israel's actual practice is the equivalent, military, border police and settlers kill Palestinians at will, Palestinians are labelled as vermin and cockroaches by members of the military, Knesset and rabbinic establishment. The JNFs stated aim is “to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people” - hardly any better.

The charter update and their statements since admit that the state of Israel is a fact and a reality, and is not going away.

I'm not endorsing their methods, even though they are the methods of the creation of Israel itself, but they have tried peaceful means for many years. Hamas have asked many times for ceasefires, and stated repeatedly that they would lay down their weapons in return for a Palestinian state on 1967 borders.

Comments made by Hamas leaders since October 7 stating the aim is not a two state solution, many times.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

It's already in this thread. There's many other remarks that only lead to one conclusion.

On 3 June 2024, Khamenei stated that the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel was "necessary for the region" due to plans "by the US, Zionist individuals, their followers, and some of the region's countries to change the equation in the region," describing the attack as "a huge blow to Israel." This statement was criticized by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who said Khamenei's remarks "clearly announce that their goal is to sacrifice the blood of Palestinians and thousands of children, women, and the elderly, and to destroy Palestinian land," adding that the Iranian policies "do not serve the Palestinian national goals of liberating Jerusalem."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-presidency-hits-back-remarks-by-irans-khamenei-oct-7-attack-2024-06-03/

Palestinian President Abbas criticises Iran's Khamenei over praise for Hamas attacks | The National

Mahmoud Abbas says Iranian supreme leader's praise of October 7 attacks despite impact on Gaza shows 'their goal is to sacrifice the blood of Palestinians'

www.thenationalnews.com

Palestinian President Abbas criticises Iran's Khamenei over praise for Hamas attacks | The National

Mahmoud Abbas says Iranian supreme leader's praise of October 7 attacks despite impact on Gaza shows 'their goal is to sacrifice the blood of Palestinians'

www.thenationalnews.com

That's not proof of any Iranian involvement, sorry. There was no Oct 7 coordination - if Iran wanted to be involved they could have launched an attack of their own. I don't think they took any action on Oct 7, though it probably would have been advantageous to do so.

Secret Documents Show Hamas Tried to Persuade Iran to Join Its Oct. 7 Attack

The Times reviewed the minutes of 10 meetings among Hamas’s top leaders. The records show the militant group avoided several escalations since 2021 to falsely imply it had been deterred — while seeking Iranian support for a major attack.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

There will be no peace as long as Israeli's continue to annex land, commit terror attacks, subjugate and occupy an entire population.

You know this is first and foremost a religious war intent on driving out the Jews. As well as other religious minorities including Christians. Once the Islamist autocracies cease their constant attacks there will be no need for Israel to secure its existence by whatever extreme means it takes to do so.

 

[faible]

You know this is first and foremost a religious war intent on driving out the Jews. As well as other religious minorities including Christians. Once the Islamist autocracies cease their constant attacks there will be no need for Israel to secure its existence by whatever extreme means it takes to do so.

War crimes and crimes against humanity.

You're well aware of this, at least have the courage to call it what it is.

 

[Jazny]

I'll put this down to common ignorance, and not malice, but this is self-serving one sided drivel. Fantasy used to keep Israelis living in permanent fear and excusing Israel's countless violations of international law.

Unusual that you haven't written a 5000 word essay with quotes from some zionists's uncle from 1941 attempting to debunk my claim, maybe because you know I can pull up a tonne of quotes supporting everything I said about the sad redneck genocidal terrorist organization Hamas.

Let the quote wars begin

Fathi Hammad Hamas Political Bureau member and fmr Minister of the interior in a speech to a crowd: "People of Jerusalem, we want you to cut off the heads of the Jews with knives. With your hand, cut their artery from here. A knife costs five shekels. Buy a knife, sharpen it, put it there, and just cut off [their heads]. It costs just five shekels. With those five shekels, you will humiliate the Jewish state.

On Hamas’s Al-Aqsa TV, Dean of Gaza Uni Quran studies Dr. Subhi Al-Yaziji “The Jews of Palestine are fair game today — even the women... every single Jew in Palestine is a combatant — even the children".

Hamas political bureau member Osama Hamdan: "Hamas has just one 'no' – no to the existence of Israel. I believe that Israel is the heart of the problem in our region, and that once Israel is gone from this region, an opportunity to resolve all the problems in this region will be opened"

Hamas official Talal Nasser on Turkish TV: "I believe that the occupation is heading towards annihilation, and on this platform, I swear by Allah, and let everybody remember this pledge: Those of us who will still be alive will tread with their pure feet... After we trample with our feet all over the skulls of the Zionists, we will tread on the land of Haifa, Jaffa, Tiberias, Jerusalem, and all of the West Bank and our dear [Gaza] Strip. There is no difference between the [borders of] 1967 and 1948. This lie, which fooled some defeatists in this nation, will not fool the people of this nation. Palestine is one bloc. It is either ours or ours"

Hamas co founder and leader Mahmoud Al-Zahhar: On this occasion, dear brothers and sisters, we cannot but recall the crimes of these criminal [Jews] throughout history. Today, we present the world with a bunch of questions, and we challenge it to answer them honestly, for today, interests overshadow moral values, elections overshadow principles, and Zionism has overshadowed the truth.

We ask the people of the world today: Why did France, in 1253, expel and uproot the Jewish entity, which was represented by the ghetto? Why did they expel them? Because they sucked the blood of the French, because they shed the blood of the French, slaughtered them, stole their money, and conspired against them. At the end of the day, the French had no choice but to expel them in 1253.

The [Jews] fled north, to Britain, and lived there for only 27 years, until the English realized the criminality of these people, who murdered them, sucked their blood, and stole their money. So they slaughtered hem, and expelled them in 1280.

We ask the French and the British: Why did you expel them? We ask Germany of pre-Hitler times: Why were the [Jews] expelled in 1384? We ask the [Jews] why France expelled them a second time, in 1360, why Hungry expelled them in 1360, and why Belgium expelled them in 1370.

This was not something new – it started even before 1253, on the day that Pharaoh the tyrant expelled them because they had shed the blood of the Egyptians, and had conspired with their enemies against them. So [Pharaoh] expelled them, after they lost their religion, after the time of Joseph.

Was this series [of explosions] anything new? No. After the Czechs expelled them in 1380. Austria expelled them in 1420, Holland in 1444, and Spain in 1492. Russia expelled them after they conspired to assassinate the Czar in 1882, and Germany expelled them once again in 1945.

The series of expulsions continues to this day. Blood continues to be shed, martyrs continue to fall, our sons continue to hoist the banner high, and Allah willing, their expulsion from Palestine in its entirety is certain to come. We are no weaker or less honorable than the peoples that expelled and annihilated the Jews. The day we expel them is drawing near.

Hamas official, Hamad Al-Regeb: He prayed for “annihilation” and “paralysis” of the Jews whom he described as filthy animals: “[Allah] transformed them into filthy, ugly animals like apes and pigs because of the injustice and evil they had brought about.” Al-Regeb also prayed for the ability to “get to the necks of the Jews.”

....................................................................................


I could go on, these are speeches they give in the open or written in their media. Are they cancelled for these views No not at all, these views aren't controversial among Hamas and their supporters. Their founding charter which hasn't been revoked spells this out clearly. Fatah is different, and not all Palestinians feel this way obviously.

Oh and when I say I could go on I actually mean it, unlike that time you found a witness to an incident of friendly fire on Oct 7th and mistakenly thought it was an incident I hadn't already accounted for and said you could go on but you couldn't when challenged to because that's all there was up to that point. There is a lot of this racist and genocidal rhetoric from Hamas officials and representatives. How this surprises anyone coming from an organization that perpetuates the most disgusting atrocities is beyond me.

Sad little racist genocidal paper tiger organization who can only fight civilians and from behind civilians.

 

[faible]

It's already in this thread. There's many other remarks that only lead to one conclusion.

On 3 June 2024, Khamenei stated that the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel was "necessary for the region" due to plans "by the US, Zionist individuals, their followers, and some of the region's countries to change the equation in the region," describing the attack as "a huge blow to Israel." This statement was criticized by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who said Khamenei's remarks "clearly announce that their goal is to sacrifice the blood of Palestinians and thousands of children, women, and the elderly, and to destroy Palestinian land," adding that the Iranian policies "do not serve the Palestinian national goals of liberating Jerusalem."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-presidency-hits-back-remarks-by-irans-khamenei-oct-7-attack-2024-06-03/

Palestinian President Abbas criticises Iran's Khamenei over praise for Hamas attacks | The National

Mahmoud Abbas says Iranian supreme leader's praise of October 7 attacks despite impact on Gaza shows 'their goal is to sacrifice the blood of Palestinians'

www.thenationalnews.com

Palestinian President Abbas criticises Iran's Khamenei over praise for Hamas attacks | The National

Mahmoud Abbas says Iranian supreme leader's praise of October 7 attacks despite impact on Gaza shows 'their goal is to sacrifice the blood of Palestinians'

www.thenationalnews.com

It suited Iran, that doesn't mean they arranged it.

The US does the same thing; they equip and arm groups that cause instability in a region because it suits their agenda. What that group does isn't always pre-planned by or with the US but may well suit their ends. Russia does the same. As does China.

 

[Kurve]

It suited Iran, that doesn't mean they arranged it.

The US does the same thing; they equip and arm groups that cause instability in a region because it suits their agenda. What that group does isn't always pre-planned by or with the US but may well suit their ends. Russia does the same. As does China.

"Hamas was doing Iran's bidding".

It doesn't seem reasonable or productive to continue to deny their interferences and manipulations in the face of overwhelming evidence. Iran's meddling and influence over many, many years is poison to the people.

We're not talking about the US or any other, we're talking about Iran.

 

[faible]

"Hamas was doing Iran's bidding".

It doesn't seem reasonable or productive to continue to deny their interferences and manipulations in the face of overwhelming evidence. Iran's meddling and influence over many, many years is poison to the people.

We're not talking about the US or any other, we're talking about Iran.

As I said:

It suited Iran, that doesn't mean they arranged it.

Iran are doing the exact same things Russia, China and the US do. Arm militant groups that they know will act at least peripherally in their interests. You're not going to lose anything by agreeing to this.

That doesn't mean October 7th was an Iranian plot executed by Hamas.

 

[Kurve]

As I said:



Iran are doing the exact same things Russia, China and the US do. Arm militant groups that they know will act at least peripherally in their interests. You're not going to lose anything by agreeing to this.

That doesn't mean October 7th was an Iranian plot executed by Hamas.

I never said it was an Iranian plot executed by Hamas, if I think eventually we might find out firmly, that it was.

There's more than enough there though for me to be satisfied of Iran's involvement. Now, they see their axis of resistance has fallen apart, their beloved Hezbollah is decimated, their spies and military fled Syria like rats when HTS strolled in, they're so panicked they can't even hide it.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

"Hamas was doing Iran's bidding".

It doesn't seem reasonable or productive to continue to deny their interferences and manipulations in the face of overwhelming evidence. Iran's meddling and influence over many, many years is poison to the people.

We're not talking about the US or any other, we're talking about Iran.

Where is this evidence?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

War crimes and crimes against humanity.

You're well aware of this, at least have the courage to call it what it is.

Israel will do what it must, to survive. It really doesn’t care what anyone else thinks or wants.

The only crimes are those of Hamas unmercifully subjecting the Palestinian citizens to prolonged and ultimately futile warfare, which need not have happened.

When are you going to have the courage to place the blame where it belongs and call for Hamas to surrender and return the hostages?

 

[Kurve]

Israel will do what it must, to survive. It really doesn’t care what anyone else thinks or wants.

The only crimes are those of Hamas unmercifully subjecting the Palestinian citizens to prolonged and ultimately futile warfare, which need not have happened.

When are you going to have the courage to place the blame where it belongs and call for Hamas to surrender and return the hostages?

Hamas is refusing to supply a list of living hostages. At this point, I'm not sure they even know where they all are or their status.

The latest is they've said they won't supply the list until the ceasefire is in place.

 

[faible]

The only crimes are those of Hamas

Untrue.

Kurve has a stickied post that tells you this is untrue.

the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that they “each bear criminal responsibility for the following crimes as co-perpetrators for committing the acts jointly with others: the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare; and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts”.

It also found reasonable grounds to believe that “each bear criminal responsibility as civilian superiors for the war crime of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population”.

When are you going to have the courage to place the blame where it belongs and call for Hamas to surrender and return the hostages?

I've said many times all civilians detained should be released.

Now, how about you try again?

War crimes and crimes against humanity.

You're well aware of this, at least have the courage to call it what it is.

C'mon Dogs, be brave, you know what they're doing, you know you're fine with it, have the courage to own it.

 

[Zidane98]

Hamas is refusing to supply a list of living hostages. At this point, I'm not sure they even know where they all are or their status.

The latest is they've said they won't supply the list until the ceasefire is in place.

Utterly ridiculous demand.


Otherwise it does sound promising

Gaza ceasefire agreement nearly finalised: Palestinian source

Final deal likely to include comprehensive prisoner-for-hostage exchange, permanent end to war between Hamas and Israel

www.nationalheraldindia.com

Hopefully this is agreed ASAP.


Hamas also agreed an ongoing truce with Israel after the Aug 2022 skirmishes. At the same time they were already planning the Oct 7 terror attack and broke the ceasefire truce subsequently on Oct 7.


This cannot be allowed to happen again, at all.

 

[Zidane98]

Reminder, Israel’s leadership has ICC arrest warrants against them for using the national military to execute a campaign of starvation against the entire civilian population of Gaza.

It goes without saying such a government continuing as a neighbour is simply untenable.

This is all true. What is also true is Israel did not start this war. On Oct 6 there was relative stability. Israel had infact agreed to a demand by Hamas that more Gazans be allowed economic opportunities in Israel to stimuilate the Gazan economy. Unfortuntaely literally at the same time Hamas was also planning a mass murder / terror attack of Israeli civilians.


It is also true that Israel agreed a truce with Palestine in Aug 2022 after the last fighting between the two parties. Meanwhile, Hamas. along with fellow Iranian terror proxies planned a massive terrorist attack which went ahead on Oct 7.

Considering this and the fact that neighboring hostile states have 5 times in the past tried to wipe out Israel's war crimes are not entirely unsurprising considering it is facing an existential threat from Iran terror coalition. This is the context of Israel's actions and of course is in no way a defence of war crimes possibly committed by Israel who still has a responsibility to act in a proportionate matter.



A united Hamas / PIJ or any other radical islamic group free united Palestine is the first step to peace. That's abundantly clear - they have absolutely no place in a future Palestinian state.


I don't believe Netanyahu has long left as PM of Israel either. Likud are a good chance of being ousted. Public sentiiment is against these RWNJs and their siege mentality.

 

[faible]

No Israel-Hamas ceasefire agreement yet, as conditions worsen in refugee camps

The Palestinian militant group Hamas and the Israeli government have traded blame over a failure to conclude a ceasefire agreement despite progress reported by both sides in recent days. The agreement comes as harsh conditions in refugee camps make life even tougher for those living there.

www.sbs.com.au

SBS article covers a few things, this bit is regarding the ceasefire talks:

On Tuesday, an Israeli negotiating team working on a ceasefire returned from Qatar to Israel, after what the prime minister’s office called a significant week of talks.

Hamas claims Israel has set new conditions, while Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is accusing the group of going back on understandings already reached.

Majed bin Mohammad Al-Ansari, the spokesman for Qatar's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, says negotiations are continuing in Qatar, but there is no clear end in sight.

"We keep hitting rock bottom. And every time we think we've had rock bottom in the crisis in Gaza, we see other bottoms opening up. As a result, the humanitarian situation in Gaza is something that is going to be a shame on this generation in the international community. We have not been able to deal with it. We have not been able to solve it. And the crisis only continues and widens."

The US and Arab mediators, Qatar and Egypt have stepped up efforts to conclude a deal in the past two weeks.

Israeli negotiators have been focusing on a hostage deal while Palestinians continue to accuse Israel of seeking to permanently depopulate northern Gaza to create a buffer zone, which Israel denies.

On the ground, Israeli Defence Minister Israel Katz says Israel will retain security control of Gaza, including by means of buffer zones and controlling posts, creating what he describes as a new reality in Gaza.

“In Gaza, too, we will ensure that there are security spaces, buffer zones and command posts that will ensure the security of the communities. And with all this we will act to achieve the two goals of the war – to release all the kidnapped people home and to defeat Hamas. There will be no Hamas government here and no Hamas military here - a different reality will be created here thanks to the fighting that continues every day, even now.”

 

[faible]

This is all true. What is also true is Israel did not start this war. On Oct 6 there was relative stability. Israel had infact agreed to a demand by Hamas that more Gazans be allowed economic opportunities in Israel to stimuilate the Gazan economy. Unfortuntaely literally at the same time Hamas was also planning a mass murder / terror attack of Israeli civilians.


It is also true that Israel agreed a truce with Palestine in Aug 2022 after the last fighting between the two parties. Meanwhile, Hamas. along with fellow Iranian terror proxies planned a massive terrorist attack which went ahead on Oct 7.

Considering this and the fact that neighboring hostile states have 5 times in the past tried to wipe out Israel's war crimes are not entirely unsurprising considering it is facing an existential threat from Iran terror coalition. This is the context of Israel's actions and of course is in no way a defence of war crimes possibly committed by Israel who still has a responsibility to act in a proportionate matter.



A united Hamas / PIJ or any other radical islamic group free united Palestine is the first step to peace. That's abundantly clear - they have absolutely no place in a future Palestinian state.


I don't believe Netanyahu has long left as PM of Israel either. Likud are a good chance of being ousted. Public sentiiment is against these RWNJs and their siege mentality.

You've had this discussion many times.

Your version of history is reductive and fairly inaccurate.

Palestinians lived under military blockade, there's been issues for years raised by international bodies, including the UN, about the treatment of the Palestinian people under Israeli occupation.

Whilst Hamas' actions are unacceptable, after this long you should at the very least attempt to understand what was and is being done to the Palestinian people.

Israel is not a good faith actor, nor are they the good guys. Stop trying to view this as a primary school kid would.

 

[Zidane98]

You've had this discussion many times.

Your version of history is reductive and fairly inaccurate.

Palestinians lived under military blockade, there's been issues for years raised by international bodies, including the UN, about the treatment of the Palestinian people under Israeli occupation.

Whilst Hamas' actions are unacceptable, after this long you should at the very least attempt to understand what was and is being done to the Palestinian people.

Israel is not a good faith actor, nor are they the good guys. Stop trying to view this as a primary school kid would.

I'm not quite sure why you need to keep mentioning this. Nobody is disputing any of the stuff here nor is anyone claiming that Israel is a good faith actor here at all. Of note is your leaving out of the fact that Israel has had war declared on it 5 times by surrounding hostile states, has been subject to terror attacks ever since. Quite clearly these things are not a problem for you, **. It's hard to tell.

It is simply dishonest posting for you to claim anyone is saying Israel are a good faith actor here. Clearly they are not and are just as much to blame for the cycle of violence with Palestine as Palestine themselves.


At the end of the day Hamas had an agreed truce with Israel dating back to Aug 2022. It broke that truce unilaterally and for no good reason. All the while demanding Israel agree to economic concessions for Palestinians which Israel did actually agree to on Sept 29. While these negotiations were ongoing brokered by Qatar it is an absolute fact that Hamas along with Iran & Hezbollah were planning a full scale terror attack to murder Israeli civilians. That simply is unacceptable.

Imagine the reverse - Israel offering a two state solution while in the meantime planning a massacre of 1000 Gazan civilians in a single attack without being attacked at all.

I am absolutely certain your response would be completely different in every way if that happened.


Further to this, we now have all 4 of Iran's terror proxies openly calling for the destruction of Israel. Iran's supreme leader is even talking about domination of West Asia. Not that you'd know it from many posters on here who seemingly ignore genocidal threats made by Iran.


It is for this reason that the absolute first step to a two state solution and peace for all in Palestine & Israel is a united Palestine backed by the Arab League free of any radical Iranian proxy Islamist groups. Only then can a two state solution be negotiated and if that doens't happen mandated eventually by the UNSC as unlike Iran the USA does actually want peace in the area.


I do suspect what your response will be as you are entirely predictable.

 

[faible]

just as much to blame for the cycle of violence with Palestine as Palestine themselves.

Your post should have started and ended here.

It’s like you’re ever so close to seeing it, but can’t quite get there

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Untrue.

@Kurve has a stickied post that tells you this is untrue.

I discount any actions or accusations by the ICC, when they misapply "their rules".

The jurisdiction of the court extends only to those states that signed and ratified the statute. Israel did not. A state that has accepted the statute can refer a case to the court but only a state can. Gaza/"Palestine" is not a state.

There is also the the principle of complimentarity. The remit of the court extends only to countries that were unwilling or unable to investigate a complaint of a war crime or was unable to do so.

Israel has lawfully defended its people and borders from genocidal terrorists. It has a fully functioning legal system and is conducting ongoing inquiries into the war.

In addition, there is no question that Hamas (an internationally recognised terror group) celebrates its leaders’ international crimes against Israelis and has no intention of holding them accountable.

 

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I discount any actions or accusations by the ICC

I’d say this effectively sums up your post.

It’s not even that you don’t think Israel are doing these things, it’s all just technicalities.

As I said:

War crimes and crimes against humanity.

You're well aware of this, at least have the courage to call it what it is.

We know you what it is. Be brave enough to say you know and simply don’t care if it’s an ally doing it.