Current WAR CRIMES Israel - * ICC issues warrants for Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu & Yoav Gallant & for Hamas's Mohammed Deif

[Kurve]

The ICC has also issued a warrant for Hamas leader Mohammed Deif, who Israel says they have killed.

According to the ICC, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that Deif was “responsible for the crimes against humanity of murder; extermination; torture; and rape and other form of sexual violence; as well as the war crimes of murder, cruel treatment, torture; taking hostages; outrages upon personal dignity; and rape and other form of sexual violence”.

It also said there were reasonable grounds to believe the crimes against humanity were “part of a widespread and systematic attack directed by Hamas and other armed groups against the civilian population of Israel”.

For Netanyahu and Gallant, who was replaced as defence minister earlier this month, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that they “each bear criminal responsibility for the following crimes as co-perpetrators for committing the acts jointly with others: the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare; and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts”.

It also found reasonable grounds to believe that “each bear criminal responsibility as civilian superiors for the war crime of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population”.




INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT

INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT - Elements of Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I'm not claiming anything of the sort

Where as you are saying Hamas are free to use hospitals as military bases to launch attacks on Israel as they please with a guarantee that those who they are attacking cannot respond.

Sounds like you believe Hamas can do as they please in the name of "resistance" and are really just after peace for the good citizens of Gaza.

 

[Jazny]

As if Hamas would use hospitals for military purposes, they only rape, murder and torture civilians and commit every conceivable war crime as a matter of policy they openly boast about. They would never use hospitals though, even tough they have in the past and there's really strong evidence they continue to including tunnel infrastructure beneath hospitals.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

As if Hamas would use hospitals for military purposes, they only rape, murder and torture civilians and commit every conceivable war crime as a matter of policy they openly boast about. They would never use hospitals though, even tough they have in the past and there's really strong evidence they continue to including tunnel infrastructure beneath hospitals.

A valiant effort, expect a Zidane thankyou note.

So we're going with no evidence required?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Fair to say the IDF are rapists, murderers and torturers, the shocking evidence is piling up.

Kamal Adwan Hospital attack: harrowing testimonies of field executions, sexual harassment by the Israeli army in northern Gaza

A soldier forced a nurse to take off her trousers, then placed his hand on her. When she tried to resist, he struck her hard across the face

euromedmonitor.org

Weirdly never hear you mention that.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

You actually fall for that propaganda?

Propaganda? Do you think that they believed they were pulling the wool over people's eyes? A clever ruse to draw Israel to the negotiating table? Then what - break the agreement? Seems a bit needless.

That's what Bibi would have us believe anyway, who rejected it before it was even published.

The first was written when they were a newly formed movement, the latter when they were a political party governing Gaza.

Can you point me to any senior Hamas figure renouncing the old one? I looked and couldn't find any. It's reported that the new charter does not supplant the old one. Is their any Hamas acknowledgement of their racist foundation document? Or are they still out there saying the same old racist rhetoric and committing the same old terrorism.

Be honest, would it make any difference if there was?

Would you do anything but dismiss it out of hand immediately?

I really wanted to say 'sorry, 36 years ago is too far back for me to care', but I will leave that device to you.

Be extremely honest with me, if Israel had a founding charter anywhere near close to that racist but in 2017 they made a new one without officially revoking the old one and denouncing it, would you believe it and not reference their original charter as extremely strong evidence of their actual beliefs? Especially if their leaders were out there still saying stuff that lined up with their document.
DavidBeckham.jpg

Since 1977 the Likud party manifesto still says, 'Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty'. They haven't updated it. If they were to update it and made an indication they were not going to progress that agenda, why would I not give that a chance?

I don't think of Israel as a homogenous block, all believing the same thing. I don't even think of Hamas that way. I'm trying to be honest but it's not really a valid question.

Again easy for me to say, but to dismiss it out of hand as Israel have done with Hamas for decades is hardly going to change anything.

No, lots of people don't do that, including lots of Palestinians.

Lots of Palestinians don't, you're absolutely right. And look where West Bank Palestinians security cooperation has got them.

From Dec 22 when Netanyahu's sixth government was formed, through to September 23, Israel entrenched occupation and settlements in a most overt and extreme fashion.

In 9 months:

• 29 new illegal West Bank outposts were set up
• 15 illegal outposts were granted the legal status of 'settlements'
• Smotrich was made Minister of Settlements with full civil power over Palestinians (de facto annexation)
• Repealed the Disengagement Law, removing the prohibition on entering and staying in Area C
• Massive industrial investment for a zone of 2 million sq km in central West Bank
• Major apartheid road construction announced in Ma'ale Adumim
• Reestablishment of outposts in Burka which were evacuated in the 2005 disengagement, breaking a Bush/Sharon agreement
• Investment for proposed settlements in East Jerusalem and West Bank including tens of thousands of apartments
• Planning decisions now to be made by Smotrich alone, bypassing Knesset discussions
• 6 new tourist settlements at antiquities sites yet to be announced

It's nice that occasionally someone will say 'oh those crazy settlers', but this is done with the full legal backing of the government and associated Ministers. This is the reality that Palestinians are faced with every day.

They are taking away any hope of a peaceful settlement in the region. They have no future on their land.

Pretty bizarre claim. The best movements have been largely peaceful with minimal terrorism. Civil rights in America, Ghandi in India, Nelson Mandela in South Africa.

Hey I just quoted an Israeli general.

Peaceful with minimal terrorism is interesting, I wonder if that was a late edit to your post.

You're probably aware Mandela was a terrorist until nearly 90 according to the US, and was the head of MK, the ANC military wing. Advocated at one time for violent resistance when the oppressor refuses to negotiate or listen. He did go on to renounce violence, but real change in Sth Africa was brought about through international pressure and economic sanctions.

Israel have found themselves in a very different position to Sth Africa - they enjoy unwavering support from the most powerful Western and European nations. Surely you can admit that Palestinian demonstrations and acts of civil disobedience, triggering brutal police and military actions, televised to appalled viewers around the globe, is not going to work for them as it did for Sth Africans.

We've seen for decades every attempt at peaceful protest is met with brutal violence from Israel, and the world doesn't care. Israel learned all you have to do is have the protesters labelled terrorist, and it's a free pass.

After the past 12 months we can now be certain there is almost nothing Israel could do that would draw overwhelming pressure internationally. You've got people in here bending over backwards to excuse and justify every single thing they do. How do you get the world's media to broadcast the atrocities when Israel don't even allow media?

I would love for Palestinians to be able to emulate Sth Africas path out of apartheid - but it's a pipe dream. I've been honest with you - you really think Palestinian civil disobedience is the way to go?

Remember 1940? Have I said that early Israeli terrorist groups were justified in committing terror acts against civilians? The Lehi and Irgun's terror tactics were largely condemned by mainstream Jewish groups of the time if I am not mistaken, but I also don't care all that much about what happened 80 years ago

A whataboutism that stretches back 80 years isn't really effective, you might want to update your talking points a bit.

Hmmm they were so condemned that their leaders went on to become revered Prime Ministers?

We've got plenty of evidence of attacks on civilians in the last 12 months, no need to go back 80 years.

The withdrawal of Gaza brought less security to Israel, not more.

The withdrawal was for security reasons, not for the benefit of Gazans, so that doesn't sound right.

Nobody agrees on this hence why its a stalemate.

It's a stalemate because Israel want it to be a stalemate. It clearly states the acquisition of territory by war (even a defensive one) is inadmissible and calls for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in the 1967 conflict.

It's clear to anyone with eyes they have no intention of ever doing that. All of the settlements mentioned above are built in this occupied territory, not under Israeli sovereignty. Jews living in these territories are still protected by Israeli criminal and civil law, while the Palestinians living in the same land are not. (This is the clearest proof of apartheid, btw.)

Expect lots of these areas to be annexed this year anyway. Is that a red line for you? Will you have any qualms about that, or will there be a justification, it's too complex, too complicated type situation?

Not sure how confident Israelis can be with your conclusion, but its easy for you to make it considering you live in Australia and don't have to suffer the consequences of being wrong. It's a horrible situation, not easy to solve. Hence why its dragged on for years.

Agreed.

I asked for a single piece of evidence did I?
DavidBeckham.jpg
TimRobbinsyousureaboutthat.gif

You've just made this up. What happened is you brought up a case that I already accounted for as though it was proof of all these eye witness testimonies of choppers going around shooting Israeli civilians, which I said there was "almost none". You confidently said you could go on, but you couldn't because that's about all there was.

Fair, I may have misremembered - I think you said there was no evidence, absolutely zero evidence, as you regularly do - then when I gave this example you disregarded it, as you regularly do.

You can see why I can only assume I'd be wasting more time putting together something more comprehensive, but here we are. You respond super aggressively at times, doesn't help the impression that this is all pretty futile.

 

[faible]

Targeting hospitals in full knowledge that they are nothing but hospitals is absolutely a war crime. I don't see any objective evidence of Israel doing this though.

You haven’t seen any objective evidence because Israel doesn’t allow objective parties in to assess their claims.

‘Trust us guys, this hospital needed to be bombed, same as all the other hospitals, schools, and roads’

Yeah. Nah.

We wouldn’t trust it from Putin. Why would we trust it from Netanyahu?

 

[Jazny]

Propaganda? Do you think that they believed they were pulling the wool over people's eyes?

Yes. The new one seems more for an international audience. Kind of difficult to get international support while your charter is going on about killing Jews They reportedly didn't explicitly revoke their original charter as they were afraid of causing internal division. Seems like a whitewashing exercise more than any legitimate change in views given their ongoing rhetoric and actions.

Be honest, would it make any difference if there was?

Yes if there were significant leaders in Hamas openly denouncing the original document and antisemitism it would make a difference.

I really wanted to say 'sorry, 36 years ago is too far back for me to care', but I will leave that device to you.

It's currently not-revoked, but nice try

Since 1977 the Likud party manifesto still says, 'Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty'. They haven't updated it. If they were to update it and made an indication they were not going to progress that agenda, why would I not give that a chance?

If they updated it and then launched an unprovoked extermination operation explicitly targetting civilians in the west bank while their leaders and supported media talked about eradicating Palestinians how much of a chance would you give it?

Lots of Palestinians don't, you're absolutely right. And look where West Bank Palestinians security cooperation has got them.

A tonne of international support, their people living in relative peace. Let's also not pretend that terrorism is not a significant threat from the west bank and I won't pretend settlement policy of Israel is cruel and unjustifiable.

They are taking away any hope of a peaceful settlement in the region. They have no future on their land.

Yes it hurts peace. Agreed.

You're probably aware Mandela was a terrorist until nearly 90 according to the US, and was the head of MK, the ANC military wing. Advocated at one time for violent resistance when the oppressor refuses to negotiate or listen. He did go on to renounce violence, but real change in Sth Africa was brought about through international pressure and economic sanctions.

Mandela disavowed attacks targetting civilians. Any efforts to associate him with Hamas is actually disgusting. Don't smear his legacy. He avoided civilian casualties and his tactics minimized harm to civilians. His goal was to end apartheid, not sieze control of South Africa and kill or expel white people.

I would love for Palestinians to be able to emulate Sth Africas path out of apartheid - but it's a pipe dream. I've been honest with you - you really think Palestinian civil disobedience is the way to go?

Absolutely 100%. They won't defeat Israel militarily. How many civilians on both sides need to be sacrificed in their stupid futile terrorist efforts to destroy Israel?

Hmmm they were so condemned that their leaders went on to become revered Prime Ministers?

He became PM 30 years after his involvement in Irgun He also won a Nobel peace prize! Not sure his popularity in the 70s is proof of Irgun's tactics being accepted by the Jewish mainstream in the 40s.

Expect lots of these areas to be annexed this year anyway. Is that a red line for you? Will you have any qualms about that, or will there be a justification, it's too complex, too complicated type situation?

The only way I am okay with annexation is if it's part of agreed land swaps and peace treaties in a two state solution. I'm not a blind Israel supporter. If I spoke to Israeli right wingers or moderate Palestinians they would both would call me pro-Palestinian. But I'm not anti-Israel.

You respond super aggressively at times, doesn't help the impression that this is all pretty futile.

Mainly when it comes to the more unhinged claims you've made. You're knowledgable but that's a worry when you could be very convincing to people who might start to believe some of the whitewashing or denial of Hamas atrocities.

 

[Kurve]

I'm not sure what their 'legal status' means, are they facing charges?

"The decision also includes temporarily freezing the work of all journalists, employees, crews and affiliated channels until their legal status is rectified due to Al Jazeera's violations of the laws and regulations in force in Palestine," the report said.

"This decision comes in response to Al Jazeera's insistence on broadcasting inciting content and reports characterised by misinformation, incitement, sedition and interference in Palestinian internal affairs," it added.

Palestinian Authority suspends Al Jazeera broadcasts

The Palestinian Authority on Wednesday ordered the suspension of broadcasts by the Qatar-based Al Jazeera across the Palestinian territories, accusing the network of airing "inciting content", official media reported."The specialised ministerial committee, comprising the ministries of culture...

www.al-monitor.com

 

[Kurve]

 

[Zidane98]

You wouldn't believe who was caught posting support for genocidal dictator & human rights abuser Assad:





This is the same Assad that genocided a Palestinian refugee village of 160,000 over 5 years in Syria by means of deliberate starvation, depriving of water & medical supplies, mass attacks on civilians etc etc.





Telling she had to be told to shut up before she incriminated herself further.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

You wouldn't believe who was caught posting support for genocidal dictator & human rights abuser Assad:





This is the same Assad that genocided a Palestinian refugee village of 160,000 over 5 years in Syria by means of deliberate starvation, depriving of water & medical supplies, mass attacks on civilians etc etc.





Telling she had to be told to shut up before she incriminated herself further.

Do you not know what prescient means?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

You wouldn't believe who was caught posting support for genocidal dictator & human rights abuser Assad:





This is the same Assad that genocided a Palestinian refugee village of 160,000 over 5 years in Syria by means of deliberate starvation, depriving of water & medical supplies, mass attacks on civilians etc etc.





Telling she had to be told to shut up before she incriminated herself further.

Your understanding of Syrian conflict is as deep as a puddle.

You don't even understand what you're posting about. You just repost anything that looks like it might serve your weird purpose.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Israel sieges refugee camp they claim is full of terrorists = good

Assad sieges refugee camp he claims is full of terrorist = bad

HTS turning a secular country Islamist. This is going to be very funny soon.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Happy New Year from the IDF!

 

[Kurve]

Israel sieges refugee camp they claim is full of terrorists = good

Assad sieges refugee camp he claims is full of terrorist = bad

All bombing is bad.

HTS turning a secular country Islamist. This is going to be very funny soon.

Turkey's curriculum more specifically in religious studies, which iirc are again made compulsory, refers to Christians and Jews as infidels.

This might indicate more of Turkey's influence over the new Syria government.

 

[jason_recliner]

HTS is an Islamist jihadi terrorist criminal organisation. They can go full Taliban without Turkey.

 

[Kurve]

HTS is an Islamist jihadi terrorist criminal organisation. They can go full Taliban without Turkey.

What's that got to do with a change in curriculum that looks like Turkey's?

Talks were going on behind the scenes, obviously before HTS appeared to stroll in and which gave Assad and his family, Iran and their spies, military and others, time to get out. It was Turkey imo.

Turkey's had and has been developing relationships with islamist groups operating in Syria over the course.

 

[treeebeard]

Do you not know what prescient means?

I presume the word was used in relation to this

"Be sure that Israel and the US support the mercenary groups because they promised them that once they hold power they will relinquish Syria's demand for a return of the occupied Golan Heights, and some other very beneficial arrangements. How would you like that?"

Which was selectively cut from the tweet by moiselle the Zionist shill

 

[Kurve]

You're the one who said they're changing curriculum is because of Turkey. I agree with your question. What's Turkey got to do with a change in curriculum by Islamist terrorists?

Go read what I posted again. " .. it might indicate"

I drew attention to their relationship with Turkey and the suggestion that it appears to reflect Turkey's curriculum. There shouldn't be a problem with that.

They're also going to get their law from somewhere. Gee, maybe Turkey might help there? They're certainly not going to be taking any tips from the US or Israel.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Yes. The new one seems more for an international audience. Kind of difficult to get international support while your charter is going on about killing Jews They reportedly didn't explicitly revoke their original charter as they were afraid of causing internal division. Seems like a whitewashing exercise more than any legitimate change in views given their ongoing rhetoric and actions.

Does it really go on about killing Jews? Which Articles are you referring to?

Yes if there were significant leaders in Hamas openly denouncing the original document and antisemitism it would make a difference.

Here is a senior figure somewhat renouncing it, explaining it was written by one bloke, rushed, it's not binding and was not analysed in
relation to any aspect of intl law. Scoff away.

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/hamas-charter-vision-fact-and-fiction/

If they updated it and then launched an unprovoked extermination operation

How can you read that list of Netanyahu government actions, know that 2023 was a record-breaking year for Palestinian children being killed in the West Bank by the IDF before Oct 7, and say it was unprovoked?

Are you doing that trick where you treat Gaza and the West Bank as 2 separate entities, whose populations are somehow oblivious to what happens in the other despite being friends and family? Don't buy it.

...extermination operation in the west bank while their leaders and supported media talked about eradicating Palestinians how much of a chance would you give it?

So that's what has actually happened in Gaza, and we have to read people in this thread tell us actually this is just a war, and unprecedented numbers of women and children have died because human shields.

A tonne of international support, their people living in relative peace. Let's also not pretend that terrorism is not a significant threat from the west bank and I won't pretend settlement policy of Israel is cruel and unjustifiable.

You're telling me Palestinians in the West Bank currently enjoy a tonne of international support? You've got to be shitting me.

Are you saying that new settlements, settlers stealing land, pogroms and apartheid roads are an anti-terrorism measure?

Yes it hurts peace. Agreed.

Hurts peace, yes. Such dainty language for a campaign of ethnic cleansing.

Mandela disavowed attacks targetting civilians.

That's interesting, I'd like to read about that. Disavowed them while he was leader of MK, who carried out bombings which killed ~100 civilians? Or afterward?

Any efforts to associate him with Hamas is actually disgusting.

Not sure I did that?

Absolutely 100%. They won't defeat Israel militarily. How many civilians on both sides need to be sacrificed in their stupid futile terrorist efforts to destroy Israel?

Sorry but you're either being naive or being dishonest. Peaceful protest in Palestine is met with bullets and bombs, with deliberate provocation until the IDF can claim they're only defending themselves or fighting terrorists. Over and over again.

They won't defeat them militarily, and they will never be able to defeat them through peaceful means. They will be erased from their land, killed, expelled or exiled, wiped from history.

 

[Jazny]

Does it really go on about killing Jews? Which Articles are you referring to?

Article 7 has this:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him"

The text is riddled with antisemitism against Jews and vows to destroy Israel.

Here is a senior figure somewhat renouncing it, explaining it was written by one bloke, rushed, it's not binding and was not analysed in
relation to any aspect of intl law. Scoff away.

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/hamas-charter-vision-fact-and-fiction/

Somewhat renouncing it

He didn't denounce it at all. That's the funniest whitewasing attempt ever. "explaining it was written by one bloke"... You missed the part where it was ratified by the group. Rushed? When I'm rushed I always slip into unhinged antisemitism, guys

"Despite the group’s evolution, it is an inescapable fact that the charter represents a milestone in the struggle against an irredentist occupation. At any rate, historical statements remain a testament to the past; and the charter, as a document written over two decades ago, retains its authoritative value"

Such renunciation. Can you imagine Germans talking about Mein Kampf like that? Embarrassing.

That's interesting, I'd like to read about that. Disavowed them while he was leader of MK, who carried out bombings which killed ~100 civilians? Or afterward?

Yes, the ANC never had an explicit policy of targetting civilians. He didn't denounce instances of civilians being killed by the ANC, to my knowledge, but more denounced or more accurately was against a policy of targetting civilians. The ANC were supposed to take vows against civilian harm.

"Four forms of violence were possible. There is sabotage, there is guerrilla warfare, there is terrorism, and there is open revolution. We chose to adopt the first. Sabotage did not involve loss of life, and it offered the best hope for future race relations. Bitterness would be kept to a minimum and, if the policy bore fruit, democratic government could become a reality.... Had we intended to attack life we would have selected targets where people congregated and not empty buildings and power stations."

This is why Mandela is viewed well in history, despite not being perfect, and why Hamas will always be viewed as sad little terrorists.

They won't defeat them militarily, and they will never be able to defeat them through peaceful means. They will be erased from their land, killed, expelled or exiled, wiped from history.

Nonsense. They will exist and continue to exist, if Israel wanted to genocide Palestinians or ethnically cleanse them completely they have had multiple opportunities over decades to do it.

 

[Zidane98]

Very concerning



Also Hamas reported to be conducting summary executions of Gazan civilians who take aid without paying off Hamas to access aid.

For those that will inevitably deny this / post whataboutisms there is video available of this which I will refrain from posting.