Current WAR CRIMES Israel - * ICC issues warrants for Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu & Yoav Gallant & for Hamas's Mohammed Deif

[Kurve]

The ICC has also issued a warrant for Hamas leader Mohammed Deif, who Israel says they have killed.

According to the ICC, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that Deif was “responsible for the crimes against humanity of murder; extermination; torture; and rape and other form of sexual violence; as well as the war crimes of murder, cruel treatment, torture; taking hostages; outrages upon personal dignity; and rape and other form of sexual violence”.

It also said there were reasonable grounds to believe the crimes against humanity were “part of a widespread and systematic attack directed by Hamas and other armed groups against the civilian population of Israel”.

For Netanyahu and Gallant, who was replaced as defence minister earlier this month, the chamber “found reasonable grounds to believe” that they “each bear criminal responsibility for the following crimes as co-perpetrators for committing the acts jointly with others: the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare; and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts”.

It also found reasonable grounds to believe that “each bear criminal responsibility as civilian superiors for the war crime of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population”.




INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT

INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT - Elements of Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes

 

[Zidane98]

Note: this is opinion, not a factual statement.

FA do provide a very detailed analysis of the Al-Ahli Hospital incident which I believe I've linked previously;

Forensic Architecture

forensic-architecture.org

Their conclusions appear to be detailed in this section:



You're welcome to hand-wave it all away, if you like. They don't attribute blame for that incident to Israel, despite your claim.

Again you choose a source that is absolutely anti Israel government in every way and you continue to stand by that decision even though you are fully aware that a FA director had an accusation in the guardian that Jewish houses has red roof tiles installed to protect them from IDF air strike forcibly retracted.

The only thing being consistently handwaved away by you is the massacre of Palestinian civilians by Hamas - all because Israel are not responsible.

 

[Zidane98]

It was an and, not an or;

Either way it's a false claim.


Nobody in this thread that I am aware of is linking criticism of IDF and support of Palestinian right of self determination to being pro Hamas at all.

 

[faible]

Again you choose a source that is absolutely anti Israel government in every way and you continue to stand by that decision even though you are fully aware that a FA director had an accusation in the guardian that Jewish houses has red roof tiles installed to protect them from IDF air strike forcibly retracted.

The leadership of the Israeli Government has arrest warrants for war crimes and crimes against humanity and is under investigation for Genocide. I'd say being 'anti-Israel Government' is a perfectly reasonable position to take.

Nonetheless, the analysis is quite detailed. Any chance of commenting on it?

The only thing being consistently handwaved away by you is the massacre of Palestinian civilians by Hamas - all because Israel are not responsible.

You keep saying this, but seem to be unable to actually support it.

 

[Deliverance]

Was your argument: Fatah's messaging is disjointed because they somewhat praised Hamas's new leader at the time as being someone his party can work with and criticized Israel's demonization of Iran? Or was it: "One message is blaming Hamas, the other is blaming Israel"?

His comments about Iran seemed more about criticising Israel than saying Iran is a positive influence in the West Bank. If he said something like "October 7th was a great idea and we want Iran's help against Israel in the West Bank", I would agree that's disjointed.

Lost track already? Let me help and quote myself

One message is blaming Hamas, the other is blaming Israel.

As for his comments he literally blames Israel for destabilising the region, not Hamas. The other message blames Hamas, so yes, that's disjointed messaging

 

[treeebeard]

Either way it's a false claim.


Nobody in this thread that I am aware of is linking criticism of IDF and support of Palestinian right of self determination to being pro Hamas at all.

There is one poster who regularly calls people who criticise iarael tankies and apologists. While not using the words pro hamas, it's tantamount to the same thing.

 

[Zidane98]

The leadership of the Israeli Government has arrest warrants for war crimes and crimes against humanity and is under investigation for Genocide. I'd say being 'anti-Israel Government' is a perfectly reasonable position to take.

Notably absent here - any mention that as of Oct 17 2023 Hamas were guilty of a mass terror attack, murdering, raping Israeli civilians on a large scale literally 10 days prior before.

Nonetheless, the analysis is quite detailed. Any chance of commenting on it?



You keep saying this, but seem to be unable to actually support it.

It's absolute nonsense and has no support from any reliable media sources. You know this.

Meanwhile elsewhere:

New AP analysis of last month's deadly Gaza hospital explosion rules out widely cited video

The Associated Press is publishing an updated visual analysis of the deadly Oct. 17 explosion at Gaza’s Al-Ahli Hospital.

apnews.com

Gaza: Findings on October 17 al-Ahli Hospital Explosion

The explosion that killed and injured many civilians at al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza on October 17, 2023, resulted from an apparent rocket-propelled munition, such as those commonly used by Palestinian armed groups, that hit the hospital grounds, Human Rights Watch said today. While misfires...

www.hrw.org

This one is particular helpful as it shows the entire flight of rocket launch in Gaza, failure & impact.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/23/gaza-hospital-new-york-times-00122986

The New York Times walked back its initial coverage on the explosion that killed hundreds of Palestinians at a Gaza Strip hospital last week, saying in an editors’ note that the newspaper “relied too heavily on claims” made by the Hamas militant group.

Palestinian Islamic Jihad spokesman reveals group’s Gaza propaganda playbook

Palestinian Islamic Jihad spokesman confesses to manipulating media and promoting stories based on the group’s narrative, even if they are false.

www.foxnews.com

Shlouf said the PIJ’s leadership "fabricated the story about an Israeli strike on the hospital" in an attempt to "erase" the group’s direct involvement in the incident, which killed more than 100 people, according to U.S. intelligence agencies.

"It is true that the story is false, but we wanted to promote it," the spokesman said, describing how the terror group’s communication department made decisions based on "certain interests" and "to leverage a certain narrative."

Former UN warcrimes investigator Mark Galarsco



Whatever hit the hospital in #Gaza it wasn’t an airstrike. Even the smallest JDAM leaves a 3m crater. Widespread surface damage and total lack of cratering inconsistent with an airstrike.


Also Mark Galarsco




There’s always a piece of a bomb after the fact. In 20 years of investigating war crimes this is the first time I haven’t seen any weapon remnants. And I’ve worked three wars in Gaza.”

PIJ / Hamas bragging about launching rockets at 7pm - the same time as the explosion







And here you are, still sticking to a story from an organisation that has a director that had to have a claim about Jews forcibly retracted from The Guardian.


What's clear here is your absolute determination to not hold Hamas responsible for the murder of hundreds of Palestinians.

 

[Zidane98]

There is one poster who regularly calls people who criticise iarael tankies and apologists. While not using the words pro hamas, it's tantamount to the same thing.

That's not what the discussion was about.

It was another poster falsely claiming that there were posters on here that were labeling posters pro-Hamas simply because they critisised IDF actions and supported Palestinian's rights to self determination.


If it's the poster I think you are quoting even he/she supports Palestinian self determination and certainly wouldn't equate such a view to being pro Hamas.

 

[faible]

Notably absent here - any mention that as of Oct 17 2023 Hamas were guilty of a mass terror attack, murdering, raping Israeli civilians on a large scale literally 10 days prior before.

Where have I ever defended Hamas' actions?

Meanwhile elsewhere:

All pre-dating the FA article, which has quite a substantial analysis of the claims made in those news articles you linked.

It's absolute nonsense and has no support from any reliable media sources. You know this.

So no comment on the content it seems.

 

[Zidane98]

Where have I ever defended Hamas' actions?

Blaming Israel for Hamas murdering Palestinians is exactly that.

All pre-dating the FA article, which has quite a substantial analysis of the claims made in those news articles you linked.



So no comment on the content it seems.

I've already commented on the content and how it is absolutely not from a valid source. There is no peer review nor is there any credibility to it. Meanwhile UN warcrimes investigators were able to determine early on that Israel were not involved. You have no other sources to back it up either. And there's this:

• In 2022, Forensic Architecture and Al-Haq (designated as a terror linked NGO by Israel, based on ties to the PFLP) launched the “Forensic Architecture Investigation Unit” to “monitor[] and document[] violations against Palestinians for the purposes of legal accountability and public advocacy.”

I'd suggest to moderators that Forensic Architecture can not be cited as a reliable source for any investigations into the current ongoing war and that anyone attempting to do so is posting in bad faith.


None of us are surprised that you quote sources with directors who were forced to retract accusations about Jewish home owners in the guardian.

Of course there is other conclusive evidence you like to deliberately ignore including video footage showing the complete sequence of events from rocket launch within Gaza to rocket failure and impact.




Associated Press, Politico, HRW, New York Times (who initially published that Israel were responsible and retracted) are all credible sources unlike your NGO terror linked FA.

 

[faible]

Blaming Israel for Hamas murdering Palestinians is exactly that.

Source for this claim?

I'd suggest to moderators that Forensic Architecture can not be cited as a reliable source for any investigations into the current ongoing war and that anyone attempting to do so is posting in bad faith.

There's your Crime board moderators to lodge your request. On the scale of 'Zidane refuses to recognise outlets Israel says he shouldn't recognise' where does FA fit between 'random twitter accounts' and 'Al Jazeera'. Is it more or less reliable than the ICC or Francesca Albanese?



**** me this is really one of your best efforts.

 

[Zidane98]

Source for this claim?





There's your Crime board moderators to lodge your request. On the scale of 'Zidane refuses to recognise outlets Israel says he shouldn't recognise' where does FA fit between 'random twitter accounts' and 'Al Jazeera'. Is it more or less reliable than the ICC or Francesca Albanese?

View attachment 2202748

**** me this is really one of your best efforts.

Blaming Israel for Hamas murdering Palestinians is exactly that.


I've already commented on the content and how it is absolutely not from a valid source. There is no peer review nor is there any credibility to it. Meanwhile UN warcrimes investigators were able to determine early on that Israel were not involved. You have no other sources to back it up either. And there's this:

• In 2022, Forensic Architecture and Al-Haq (designated as a terror linked NGO by Israel, based on ties to the PFLP) launched the “Forensic Architecture Investigation Unit” to “monitor[] and document[] violations against Palestinians for the purposes of legal accountability and public advocacy.”

I'd suggest to moderators that Forensic Architecture can not be cited as a reliable source for any investigations into the current ongoing war and that anyone attempting to do so is posting in bad faith.


None of us are surprised that you quote sources with directors who were forced to retract accusations about Jewish home owners in the guardian.

Of course there is other conclusive evidence you like to deliberately ignore including video footage showing the complete sequence of events from rocket launch within Gaza to rocket failure and impact.




Associated Press, Politico, HRW, New York Times (who initially published that Israel were responsible and retracted) are all credible sources unlike your NGO terror linked FA.

FA are fine to quote for anything that isn't Israel / Palestine related.

It's clear that a poster acting in good faith should not be during FA as a source when it was formed in partnership with Palestinian activist organisations.

There are media bias check websites as well but we already know your history with moderators on these and your insistence on quoting Al- Jazeera as a reliable source for Gaza related news.

Also to be addressed is your false claim of posters likening anyone who criticises IDF and supports Palestinian self determination as pro Hamas.

We will need a source fur such claims. Obe if your worst yet after your debacle the other day.

 

[Kurve]

Are we talking about early in when a rocket hit the carpark at a hospital?

Cos I argued that was a failed Hamas rocket from the beginning, hard up against it too I might say but that's how I saw it and it looked pretty obvious. I ended up backing down muttering to myself "ffs that was so a failed Hamas rocket but just shut up Kurve".

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Speaking of Norm Finklestein...

Poor Norm. I guess he hasn't been doing much celebrating over the past year
View attachment 2202155

But at least October 7th warmed every fibre of his being, maybe the slaughter of Israelis by Hamas terrorists can keep his the old boring loser going:

"...if we honor the Jews who revolted in the Warsaw Ghetto—then moral consistency commands that we honor the heroic resistance in Gaza. I, for one, will never begrudge—on the contrary, it warms every fiber of my soul—the scenes of Gaza’s smiling children as their arrogant Jewish supremacist oppressors have, finally, been humbled.” - Norm Finklesetien

But then again, he is probably bed ridden by the loss after loss of the paper tiger terrorist organisation, just like that time in his early 20s when he was a full blown Maoist and couldn't get out of bed when the Gang of Four got overthrown because he realised, in a brief moment of clarity for him, that he is a useful idiot.
View attachment 2202170

This realisation didn't last too long. In his 70s he is stilling a fan of dictatorial violence by justifying the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Remember, guys, this is one of the predominant 'scholars' anti-Israelis quote.How embarrassing.

Weird unprompted rant. Thanks for the info blast on Norm Finklestein I guess.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Of course you know that this source is heavily anti-Israel. Doesn't take much effort to find this

Forensic Architecture - ngomonitor

Forensic Architecture is a pseudo-research project that consistently generates analyses that are inaccurate, misleading, and blatantly prejudiced.

ngo-monitor.org

Some pearlers include an accusation that red roof tiles on Jewish homes are deliberate so their homes do not get bombed. This claim was retracted after legal threats against your "source"

Other highlights of FA include
View attachment 2202568

Also

View attachment 2202569


Instead of blaming Hamas for the murder of Gazan civilians you ignore virtually all reliable sources on the massacre and choose to cite a source that is clearly anti-Israel.


And lastly instead of blaming Hamas you go for the whataboutisms:

Are you seriously trying to use NGO Monitor to attempt (and fail spectacularly I might add ) to claim that Forensic Architecture is somehow biased?

You are so dopey you must be a spoof account.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Wow shit got crazy in here today.

Zidane98 old chap, I believe this is what you would call justification of genocide.

 

[Jazny]

Weird unprompted rant. Thanks for the info blast on Norm Finklestein I guess.

I enjoyed it. Here's another rant:

In an article published on October 10th 2023, Ilan Pappe couldn't help but "admire the courage of the Palestinian fighters who took over a dozen military bases, overcoming the strongest army in the Middle East". While slaughtering 18-19 year old female unarmed surveillance soldiers hors de combat like at Nahal Oz and taking others as hostage. So brave. Just brave and stunning terrorism.

But it's okay guys because people like Ilan "cannot avoid but raise questions about the moral or strategic value of some of the actions that accompanied this operation". Just some of them. Like sexual assault, hostage taking, exterminating civilians attending a rave, executing anyone they could find in cold blood and defiling their corpses. I definitely have some moral questions about these actions that accompanied the operation too, Ilan! But "Hamas had to act, and quickly so", according to Ilan Pappe, so never mind all that.

Instead, just look at the big picture according to Illan Pappe! "A de-zionised, liberated and democratic Palestine from the river to the sea; a Palestine that will welcome back the refugees and build a society that does not discriminate on the basis of culture, religion or ethnicity". That's exactly what Hamas want to build If I were to trust any organisation to build a free and equal society, it would be the one that talks about killing Jews in it's foundation document and whose leaders openly encourage the killing of Jews. They did such a fantastic job of creating a free and equal society in Gaza in the nearly two decades they've been in charge. Hey western useful idiots, alll they want is freedom and equality! Trust me, just don't actually read or listen to anything they say or write, or look at how they run Gaza.

People actually take Finklestein and Pappe seriously.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I enjoyed it. Here's another rant:

In an article published on October 10th 2023, Ilan Pappe couldn't help but "admire the courage of the Palestinian fighters who took over a dozen military bases, overcoming the strongest army in the Middle East". While slaughtering 18-19 year old female unarmed surveillance soldiers hors de combat like at Nahal Oz and taking others as hostage. So brave. Just brave and stunning terrorism.

But it's okay guys because people like Ilan "cannot avoid but raise questions about the moral or strategic value of some of the actions that accompanied this operation". Just some of them. Like sexual assault, hostage taking, exterminating civilians attending a rave, executing anyone they could find in cold blood and defiling their corpses. I definitely have some moral questions about these actions that accompanied the operation too, Ilan! But "Hamas had to act, and quickly so", according to Ilan Pappe, so never mind all that.

Instead, just look at the big picture according to Illan Pappe! "A de-zionised, liberated and democratic Palestine from the river to the sea; a Palestine that will welcome back the refugees and build a society that does not discriminate on the basis of culture, religion or ethnicity". That's exactly what Hamas want to build If I were to trust any organisation to build a free and equal society, it would be the one that talks about killing Jews in it's foundation document and whose leaders openly encourage the killing of Jews. They did such a fantastic job of creating a free and equal society in Gaza in the nearly two decades they've been in charge. Hey western useful idiots, alll they want is freedom and equality! Trust me, just don't actually read or listen to anything they say or write, or look at how they run Gaza.

People actually take Finklestein and Pappe seriously.

Thanks for the warning, I skipped this one.