Was Luke Ball a Waste of a pick for Collingwood?

[KissStephanie]

Haha, did you actually read Salinger's work or did it take my signature for you to connect Holden Caulfield to catcher in the rye ?

I didn't notice your signature, so your screen name.

Your interpretation of Holden's character in catcher in the rye certainly reflects your posting on Bigfooty - seeing the superficial side only without looking any further.

I had no idea you had read all of my posts in four and a half years. Some of them are very long too. Should I be flattered or scared? Maybe you're just basing your judgement from an extreme minority of them? If so, then wouldn't that be rather superficial of you? Hypocritical even?

But Ball 2009 was certainly not very superior to Armitage 2010

Luke Ball was superior to David Armitage last season, and in three matches so far this season, his output is still superior, and he would still be in St.Kilda's best team ahead of him. I'm not doubting that there will be a time when Armitage eventually plays two good successive matches, but I don't know when that will be.

Until that happens, then he will be an average player due to his inconsistency. He trails Ball in every aspect (including disposal efficiency) so far this season with the exception of maybe kicking distance, but Armitage has also has had more clangers, although I'm sure there are other hidden and deeper benefits that he brings to the team.

 

[John Bonney]

I didn't notice your signature, so your screen name.I had no idea you had read all of my posts in four and a half years. Some of them are very long too. Should I be flattered or scared? Maybe you're just basing your judgement from an extreme minority of them? If so, then wouldn't that be rather superficial of you? Hypocritical even?Luke Ball was superior to David Armitage last season, and in three matches so far this season, his output is still superior, and he would still be in St.Kilda's best team ahead of him. I'm not doubting that there will be a time when Armitage eventually plays two good successive matches, but I don't know when that will be.

Until that happens, then he will be an average player due to his inconsistency. He trails Ball in every aspect (including disposal efficiency) so far this season with the exception of maybe kicking distance, but Armitage has also has had more clangers, although I'm sure there are other hidden and deeper benefits that he brings to the team.

Get this into your thick head KS ,Ball plays for Collingwood a club have had a very bad week from their big mouthed president down through the ranks,demonic coach gutless sniping players and weak fickle supporters who can't stay the distance.
David Armitage played for St Kilda who humiliated your pathetic rabble and now sit squarely on top of the ladder where they will stay for along,long time.Armitage put fear into a few of your players particuarly the little ******y tatooed one who went to water when Armo stood him[Beams].
Things are likely to get even worse over the upcoming week as suspensions,fines and the bitter infighting between Buckley and MM THAT IS ABOUT TO COME TO THE SURFACE.On top of that you will get another caning next week as your season goes into a tailspin.
To answer the questio The little toffee nosed private school boy was a waste of pick because collingwood have the collywobbles real bad and most likely will miss out on the finals altogether.....NY..ha...ha..what a joke.

 

[Moquo]

especially after Lyon promised to move players on that didn't want to stay.

Actually, Lyon promised to move on any player that wasn't prepared to do the work.

But facts aren't really your bag eh?

I wonder how much game time Luke will get under Buckley next year.

The next Paul Connors garage sale will be interesting.

 

[buckstheking]

WoW

another 37 pages of this dribble, will it ever end....................

 

[Hokuto no Roo]

How can anyone bag ball, Luke Ball is someone you want when things turn nasty, like in a grand final. Hopefully Collingwood don't waste taste by not making the gf.

 

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

How can anyone bag ball, Luke Ball is someone you want when things turn nasty, like in a grand final. Hopefully Collingwood don't waste taste by not making the gf.

Nice pun.

 

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

WoW

another 37 pages of this dribble, will it ever end....................

Not while KS is still posting on it.

 

[saintsrule]

Well done KS. You only miscalculated pies loss by 105 pts. Good luck with Luke Ball, I always liked his endeavour as a player, but sometimes that just isn't good enough and you have to want to do more.

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

For free? You wasted pick 30 on him. You used your top two picks in the last uncompromised draft for a while on Ball and Jolly, the latter who hasn't fired a shot. But if you like to think it's for free don't let us stop you if it makes you feel better.

Feels a lot better than paying a first round choice for fatso Mclean how did his 6 possessions go tonight what a star.

 

[JoondalupJ]

In the 2 rounds his played,

36 disposals.

61% disposal Efficiency.

10 direct clangers.

Out of all players at Collingwood, his DE% is the second worst.

He had 10 kicks on Saturday Afternoon, 8 of them were ineffective.

I know you can't base everything on stats, but just trying to paint a picture for those who haven't seen him play. He looks one paced, rarely kicks over 35 meters, and if he does he kicks it as high as he can to get the distance.

In the last quarter he was probably the worst player on ground, one paced, couldn't kick.

No disrespect to the guy, but it seems like Collingwood might've fallen for his tricks as well and are well overpaying what is a very average footballer.

Perhaps pick 30 was too early for Luke Ball?

Nup! He's a top footballer and it will all come together as the year goes on, he was freaked by saints like McPhee at Freo with the bombers. He'll come good too. Freo will have a good year. I think they actually have turned a REAL corner this season, they'll certainly let no one off easy, win or lose, watch.

 

[KissStephanie]

Actually, Lyon promised to move on any player that wasn't prepared to do the work.

Correct. If a player asks to leave the club, then it's obvious they aren't prepared to do the work. Wouldn't you agree?

But facts aren't really your bag eh?

Such as when?

I wonder how much game time Luke will get under Buckley next year.

Are you trying to suggest that Malthouse will not see out his contract?

The next Paul Connors garage sale will be interesting.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Correct. If a player asks to leave the club, then it's obvious they aren't prepared to do the work. Wouldn't you agree?Such as when?Are you trying to suggest that Malthouse will not see out his contract?I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

No. It is one of a multitude of possible reasons.
Your problem is that you believe every assumption you make to be a fact.
I have never considered Luke as lazy and i'm surprised you do.

 

[Rors]

I had been asking myself for 2 yrs why Luke Ball was still getting a game, then finally last yr he got dropped & then struggled in the 2's for 5wks before getting back into the top 22 then getting dropped again for a shocking effort against Essendon... Sure he was good in the Grand Final, but he obviously felt he didnt deserve to be dropped during the season & wanted out as he thought he had lost the respect of his coaches....

Averaging 21.4 disposals from Rd 1-13
Rd 14 v Geelong - 14 touches
Rd 15 v West Coast - 9 touches

He is then dropped

Rd 19 v Hawks - 25 disposals
Rd 20 v Bombers - 10 disposals.... his man Jobe Watson has 38 & Bombers break our winning streak

Gets dropped for 2wks, the comes back & stars in the finals due to the wet-weather

Luke Ball needs to realise, when a team is cruising along nicely, undefeated & you are playing like rubbish..... YOU WILL GET DROPPED!!!! Get over yourself Luke Ball, yes you are a hard in & under player but you cant kick over 35m, your disposal isnt great & would get beaten by Aaron Sandilands in a sprint!!!

 

[Falchoon]

Correct. If a player asks to leave the club, then it's obvious they aren't prepared to do the work. Wouldn't you agree?

I don't think Lukes professionalism was ever in question.

 

[Hammers_Saints]

Can someone find his Grand Final Stats, in terms of his efficiency of disposal

 

[KissStephanie]

I had been asking myself for 2 yrs why Luke Ball was still getting a game

Ha ha ha! Do you mean when Luke Ball finished in the top-10 of St.Kilda's best and fairest in 2008, despite only playing 18 matches due to injury, and when he maintained his career average of 20 possessions, 3 marks and 6 tackles in 2009 despite being given less game time than in any previous season? Somehow I think that you're not being honest, or your memory is flawed.

then finally last yr he got dropped & then struggled in the 2's for 5wks before getting back into the top 22

Now don't let the truth get in the way of a good story now will you? When he was dropped the first time, he did not play five games for Sandringham, and he did not struggle either. He was named in the best players in two of those three matches.

then getting dropped again for a shocking effort against Essendon.

He was second best player on the ground in Round 19, and then he had little input the following week due to spending most of the time on the bench. He was dropped after that match which was completely unfair considering he was so good the previous week. In that Round 20 match against Essendon, he spent 55% of the game on the bench because there was an obvious clash with Ross Lyon, while David Armitage was given more game time even though he was terrible and cleaned up by Jobe Watson. Luke Ball missed Round 21 and 22, and was amongst the best players for Sandringham in those two matches so he was brought back for the Qualifying Final.

Sure he was good in the Grand Final, but he obviously felt he didnt deserve to be dropped during the season & wanted out as he thought he had lost the respect of his coaches.

At the very least it was unfair that he was dropped following the Round 20 match against Essendon, and that was because he spent so much time on the bench following a very good performance in Round 19.

Averaging 21.4 disposals from Rd 1-13

So for more than half a season he averaged more than his career average, yet for two years you've been wondering how he has been getting a game? You are funny!

Rd 14 v Geelong - 14 touches Rd 15 v West Coast - 9 touches He is then dropped

He spent much of those two matches on the bench as Ross Lyon made it pretty clear that for some unknown reason, he was not prepared to play him which effected his confidence. Ball had to get away from that negative influence.

Rd 19 v Hawks - 25 disposals Rd 20 v Bombers - 10 disposals.... his man Jobe Watson has 38 & Bombers break our winning streak

David Armitage spent more time on Watson than Ball did in that match for that paltry return of 7 disposals at 55% efficiency, 4 marks and 2 tackles! Dreadful performance! If you're critical of Ball for that performance, I can only imagine how scathing your opinion of Armitage must be!

Gets dropped for 2wks, the comes back & stars in the finals due to the wet-weather

Well firstly, most of his best games last season were played on the perfect indoor conditions of Etihad Stadium. This weekend he had 28 possessions at 71% and 8 marks on the same venue in the same perfect indoor conditions. Secondly, he now plays for a team that plays most of their matches on the open M.C.G which should get some rain later in the season, while September is the wettest month of the year as I said earlier in this thread.

Luke Ball needs to realise, when a team is cruising along nicely, undefeated & you are playing like rubbish..... YOU WILL GET DROPPED!!!!

Well in that case, who comes in for David Armitage next week then? He is playing like rubbish, and St.Kilda is undefeated. In Round 1 against Sydney he had 10 possessions at a below average 60% efficiency, as well as 1 mark, and he gave away 5 free kicks. He did have 8 tackles though but that was because his opponents always had the ball! It was a poor performance.

He wasn't any better this weekend when he had only 14 possessions at a terrible 50% efficiency, and only 3 marks and 2 tackles. He was a passenger, and Luke Ball was getting dropped for better performances than this last year! If you have the slightest bit of consistency, then you must be calling for Armitage TO GET DROPPED!!! David Armitage's career averages are just as bad. He has done very little and he is now into his fourth season!

Get over yourself Luke Ball, yes you are a hard in & under player but you cant kick over 35m, your disposal isnt great & would get beaten by Aaron Sandilands in a sprint!!!

Well you are just ignorant because he is obviously quicker than you think he is, while his disposal is better than David Armitage who is in St.Kilda's best team! Armitage's best two games in the past two seasons were against an injury depleted, and much younger and inexperienced Hawthorn team that didn't make the finals last season, and then in Round 2 this year against a soft North Melbourne that didn't even turn up to play. He has no influence against good sides, including this years NAB Cup final, and he can't get anywhere near the ball. The few times that he does, he butchers it.

I think it's pretty fair to suggest that Ball was treated unfairly by Ross Lyon last season compared to the free ride that his replacement is getting, and he should have been given more time on the field than 46% in last years Grand Final after eight years of giving his all for the club. Not only is your post inaccurate, but it is one-sided and a perfect example of how St.Kilda supporters have turned on Ball more than any other player that I have seen.

 

[Rors]

Ha ha ha! Do you mean when Luke Ball finished in the top-10 of St.Kilda's best and fairest in 2008, despite only playing 18 matches due to injury, and when he maintained his career average of 20 possessions, 3 marks and 6 tackles in 2009 despite being given less game time than in any previous season? Somehow I think that you're not being honest, or your memory is flawed.Now don't let the truth get in the way of a good story now will you? When he was dropped the first time, he did not play five games for Sandringham, and he did not struggle either. He was named in the best players in two of those three matches.He was second best player on the ground in Round 19, and then he had little input the following week due to spending most of the time on the bench. He was dropped after that match which was completely unfair considering he was so good the previous week. In that Round 20 match against Essendon, he spent 55% of the game on the bench because there was an obvious clash with Ross Lyon, while David Armitage was given more game time even though he was terrible and cleaned up by Jobe Watson. Luke Ball missed Round 21 and 22, and was amongst the best players for Sandringham in those two matches so he was brought back for the Qualifying Final.At the very least it was unfair that he was dropped following the Round 20 match against Essendon, and that was because he spent so much time on the bench following a very good performance in Round 19.So for more than half a season he averaged more than his career average, yet for two years you've been wondering how he has been getting a game? You are funny! He spent much of those two matches on the bench as Ross Lyon made it pretty clear that for some unknown reason, he was not prepared to play him which effected his confidence. Ball had to get away from that negative influence.David Armitage spent more time on Watson than Ball did in that match for that paltry return of 7 disposals at 55% efficiency, 4 marks and 2 tackles! Dreadful performance! If you're critical of Ball for that performance, I can only imagine how scathing your opinion of Armitage must be! Well firstly, most of his best games last season were played on the perfect indoor conditions of Etihad Stadium. This weekend he had 28 possessions at 71% and 8 marks on the same venue in the same perfect indoor conditions. Secondly, he now plays for a team that plays most of their matches on the open M.C.G which should get some rain later in the season, while September is the wettest month of the year as I said earlier in this thread.Well in that case, who comes in for David Armitage next week then? He is playing like rubbish, and St.Kilda is undefeated. In Round 1 against Sydney he had 10 possessions at a below average 60% efficiency, as well as 1 mark, and he gave away 5 free kicks. He did have 8 tackles though but that was because his opponents always had the ball! It was a poor performance.

He wasn't any better this weekend when he had only 14 possessions at a terrible 50% efficiency, and only 3 marks and 2 tackles. He was a passenger, and Luke Ball was getting dropped for better performances than this last year! If you have the slightest bit of consistency, then you must be calling for Armitage TO GET DROPPED!!! David Armitage's career averages are just as bad. He has done very little and he is now into his fourth season!Well you are just ignorant because he is obviously quicker than you think he is, while his disposal is better than David Armitage who is in St.Kilda's best team! Armitage's best two games in the past two seasons were against an injury depleted, and much younger and inexperienced Hawthorn team that didn't make the finals last season, and then in Round 2 this year against a soft North Melbourne that didn't even turn up to play. He has no influence against good sides, including this years NAB Cup final, and he can't get anywhere near the ball. The few times that he does, he butchers it.

I think it's pretty fair to suggest that Ball was treated unfairly by Ross Lyon last season compared to the free ride that his replacement is getting, and he should have been given more time on the field than 46% in last years Grand Final after eight years of giving his all for the club. Not only is your post inaccurate, but it is one-sided and a perfect example of how St.Kilda supporters have turned on Ball more than any other player that I have seen.

Good god..... You obviously have too much time on ur hands to disect my post to this extent

Players get dropped if they under perform, Ball under performed & was dropped twice... And it wont be long before the Pies drop him & when they do, does he expect to be tucked into bed at night with a warm cup of milo by Mick Malthouse.... Precious little fellow he is

Armitage has only played 22 games & is 21yrs old... I think he will do alright going forward

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Its true though. Jack Steven is tearing it up in the VFL and may push Armitage out if it comes to that. Armitage will get a fair go first though.

 

[John Bonney]

Its true though. Jack Steven is tearing it up in the VFL and may push Armitage out if it comes to that. Armitage will get a fair go first though.

What is true SS?...Jack Steven might be the new Luke Ball..

 

[KissStephanie]

Good god..... You obviously have too much time on ur hands to disect my post to this extent

There is no need for that. It took me fifteen minutes to post it.

Players get dropped if they under perform

So who comes in for under-performing turnover king David Armitage next week?

Ball under performed & was dropped twice

He didn't under perform though. Ross Lyon benched him for the majority of his matches that led to his omission. It was David Armitage that stunk against Essendon last season (7 disposals at 55% efficiency, 4 marks and 2 tackles) and was slaughtered by Jobe Watson, and he is in St.Kilda's best team now. If Ball was still at St.Kilda, there is no doubt that he would still be in their best team. Armitage is a handy fringe player at this stage of his career.

And it wont be long before the Pies drop him

But your opinion means little because you've already shown you're out of touch. You said in your previous post that you were wondering how Ball was getting a game despite finishing in the top-10 of St.Kilda's best and fairest in 2008 in only 18 of 25 matches played due to injury, as well as maintaining his career averages in 2009. This week he had 28 possessions at 71% efficiency and 8 marks. I don't think he is going to be dropped any time soon.

when they do, does he expect to be tucked into bed at night with a warm cup of milo by Mick Malthouse.... Precious little fellow he is

All this comment shows is how fickle many St.Kilda supporters are, so thanks for supporting my opinion. They have turned on a former respected club captain, All-Australian and best and fairest winner like I have never seen before. If you cannot understand Ball's disappointment at being given only 46% game time in the Grand Final when playing so well that day and after giving his all for eight seasons, then that is just sad.

Armitage has only played 22 games & is 21yrs old... I think he will do alright going forward

He is nearly 22 and is in his fourth season. He should be better. He turns the ball over too much. He has yet to put two good games together in four seasons. He has failed to perform against good teams. His best games have been against struggling teams. His career averages are poor. So again, who comes in for him next week?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Anyone can go onto the StKilda board and look at the threads about Luke Ball from BEFORE trade week.
There was certainly an element of dissatisfaction about his performance.

 

[John Bonney]

There is no need for that. It took me fifteen minutes to post it.So who comes in for under-performing turnover king David Armitage next week?He didn't under perform though. Ross Lyon benched him for the majority of his matches that led to his omission. It was David Armitage that stunk against Essendon last season (7 disposals at 55% efficiency, 4 marks and 2 tackles) and was slaughtered by Jobe Watson, and he is in St.Kilda's best team now. If Ball was still at St.Kilda, there is no doubt that Ball would still be in their best team. Armitage is a handy fringe player at this stage of his career.But your opinion means little because you've already shown you're out of touch. You said in your previous post that you were wondering how Ball was getting a game despite finishing in the top-10 of St.Kilda's best and fairest in 2008 in only 18 of 25 matches played due to injury, as well as maintaining his career averages in 2009. This week he had 28 possessions at 71% efficiency and 8 marks. I don't think he is going to be dropped any time soon. All this comment shows is how fickle many St.Kilda supporters are, so thanks for supporting my opinion. They have turned on a former respected club captain, All-Australian and best and fairest winner like I have never seen before. If you cannot understand Ball's disappointment at being given only 46% game time in the Grand Final when playing so well that day and after giving his all for eight seasons, then that is just sad.He is nearly 22 and is in his fourth season. He should be better. He turns the ball over too much. He has yet to put two good games together in four seasons. He has failed to perform against good teams. His best games have been against struggling teams. His career averages are poor. So again, who comes in for him next week?

Your the one's who lost,most likely the changes will be made at Collingwood while Saints will make only the one injury forced alteration,tribunals,Club's overall disgraceful behaviour ,all of this will come under scrutiny.Meanwhile a disgruntled Buckley is white anting away in the wings.
What an environment ...i think a young player making his way is the least of Your troubles.

 

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

I hope Simon Buckley comes into the senior team this week. Was one of Collingwood's best in the VFL game.

 

[John Bonney]

I hope Simon Buckley comes into the senior team this week. Was one of Collingwood's best in the VFL game.

Beams didnt do much.,there will be spots up for grabs,is Buckley a relative?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Its interesting to look at dreamteam points, just as a general "Stats" tally.
Only one Collingwood player (Swan) scored more than 100 while Saints had 7.
Ball did score a respectable 98 though.
The maligned Armitage was only a point behind Davis and Beams. He was in front of Medhurst, Lockyer and O'Bree.