Watson and Bombers have a 'fighting chance'

[Higgs Boson]

Well, let's put it another way - on what basis would anyone think that WADA has powers to affect the livelihood of Australians, to earn their income entirely inside Australia, with no right for legal redress within the Australian legal system in cases of an unjust decision?

Does WADA sit above our Parliament and legal system?

I'm honestly surprised anyone would believe that.

In fact, I'm even more surprised that some posters actually wish it.

Do some research on that and you'll see why I asked the question. The AFL is a signatory to the WADA code. As a signatory it has legally agreed to abide by the decisions made. Individuals may appeal to the International Court for arbitration in sport but there is no mechanism I can see for this to be appealed to any court in Australia.

I thought I would take you up on that suggestion and do some research myself. Having done so, I think you're wrong.

ASADA is (unsurprisingly) established by way of the eponymous Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority Act 2006 (ASADA Act). The ASADA Act is Commonwealth legislation. Relevantly, it also provides for the existence of the National Anti-Doping Scheme (NADS).

Sections 61 to 63 of the NADS deal with use of a drug or doping method. Section 63 specifically provides that an athlete may appeal a finding by ASADA of use of a drug or doping method to the Commonwealth Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT). As I understand it, the AAT would carry out a merits review and appeals from any decision of the AAT would be open to the Federal Court on questions of law.

I don't pretend to have researched the issue exhaustively, but there is no doubt this could be dealt with in Australian courts, even if just in part.

Search the Copenhagen Declaration

This will not apply in this case. Do as Armchair Critic suggests and read about the Copenhagen Declaration. There is no mechanism for a club or player to have an appeal heard in an Australian Court of Law.

Irrelevant in its terms. International conventions need to be ratified by Australian law to have effect, and then any "effect" of the convention is through the legislative instrument.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Is it possible that the AFL's medical officers signed off on AOD during their audit or after Healy raised questions?

Is it possible that they made the same mistake as the ACC in determining it's status?

Essendon would have been using it when they came asking questions.

Essendon thought it was legal so why wouldn't they have declared it?

Is it possible this is why Essendon & Hird are so confident?

Was thinking the same thing. It's possible they sought clarification on AFL's s0 clause.
There's no way AFL didn't know about this pre February.
There's heck ups all round.

Still love to know why after going to AOD presentations Evans and Hird still wanted to use this snake oil. FFS

 

[Lukesta63]

A friend of mine copped an audit/investigation of his company's tax affairs covering two financial years. The ATO took over two years to send him an audit finalization letter. I can see parallels with why an ASADA investigation may take a long time.

Yeah like waiting til the end of H&A so as not to stuff up the TV coverage and ratings

 

[rumply]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ny-circumstances/story-fni5f6kv-1226671797587

Much prefer to read this article from the Sun. Straight from ASADAS mouth!

Night night Bombers

Might want to read past that 'look at me' headline & then realise there is sfa substance to the article...

 

[Armchair Critic]

I thought I would take you up on that suggestion and do some research myself. Having done so, I think you're wrong.

ASADA is (unsurprisingly) established by way of the eponymous Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority Act 2006 (ASADA Act). The ASADA Act is Commonwealth legislation. Relevantly, it also provides for the existence of the National Anti-Doping Scheme (NADS).

Sections 61 to 63 of the NADS deal with use of a drug or doping method. Section 63 specifically provides that an athlete may appeal a finding by ASADA of use of a drug or doping method to the Commonwealth Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT). As I understand it, the AAT would carry out a merits review and appeals from any decision of the AAT would be open to the Federal Court on questions of law.

I don't pretend to have researched the issue exhaustively, but there is no doubt this could be dealt with in Australian courts, even if just in part.


Irrelevant in its terms. International conventions need to be ratified by Australian law to have effect, and then any "effect" of the convention is through the legislative instrument.

The AAT can only deal with it in relation to Due process and administration of the case which is what I have said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-25/authorities-panned-over-aussie-cyclist-drug-test/4333616

 

[carlton2dabone]

Might want to read past that 'look at me' headline & then realise there is sfa substance to the article...

And you might want to look at the words used by ASADA spokesman and the context of them making those comments at this time.

We keep hearing from EFC and their cheerleaders that ASADA case is weak because they won't come out and clarify their stance on AOD. Well they just did, said it's prohibited, has been since 2011 and that they are in full agreement with WADA's interpretations.

Do you honestly think ASADA would publicly affirm their position that is prohibited substance at a time when everyone is speculating they are not sure, if they weren't sure of their position?

 

[Grin]

Essendon never got a copy themselves? Seems a tad careless. Kind of seems like it might be pretty important to get a copy of that. Like, vitally important.

Perhaps it got shredded by mistake along with doc Reid's letter and boxes of incriminating documents.

 

[mjonc]

AFL breaks agreement, Govt threatens to pull funding, AFL replies by saying your laws say WADA was wrong. Possible?

Read again...



Well your honour my governing body said to all players if in doubt ask your club doctor.

So Jobe, can you take this 'supplement' that is going to offer you absolutely nothing, oh and you need to have it injected into your stomach.

No worries Doc.

 

[mxett]

So Jobe, can you take this 'supplement' that is going to offer you absolutely nothing, oh and you need to have it injected into your stomach.

No worries Doc.

Pre clinical tests showed it has the potential to promote cartilage and bone repair. This is unproven in clinical trials.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

It was reported yesterday ASADA have denied this happened

Fogdog quote or it didnt happen!

 

[skipper kelly]

Fogdog quote or it didnt happen!

What's your legal advice Barry?

 

[sherb]

So Jobe, can you take this 'supplement' that is going to offer you absolutely nothing, oh and you need to have it injected into your stomach.

No worries Doc.

And by the way Jobe, this and any other substance we are injecting you with will have no long term effect on your health.

Thanks Doc.

 

[Grin]

Pre clinical tests showed it has the potential to promote cartilage and bone repair. This is unproven in clinical trials.

True it's performance enhancing qualities are questioned.
But Essendon players were directed to take it clearly because it was thought it would enhance their performance as it was believed to have qualities similar to HGH.

Using the excuse that you systematically cheated, but just weren't very good at it, is a desperate excuse and one I doubt you'll get away with.

Time to wrestle back you club from James Hird and his disciples, before they destroy it trying to save their own skins.
Time to lay the blame where it clearly belongs, rather than regurgitating lies, deflections and hopeless excuses.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

That's a pretty good background for an informed opinion.

That's an even better background than what the head of WADA has.

No lawyer provides his professional opinion for free, so my question stands, who paid for this article?

Essendon, Jobe or more likely Jobe's management company?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

that's a good point Daytripper

You know you have hit rock bottom when you are agreeing with Daytripper.

 

[mxett]

True it's performance enhancing qualities are questioned.
But Essendon players were directed to take it clearly because it was thought it would enhance their performance as it was believed to have qualities similar to HGH.

Using the excuse that you systematically cheated, but just weren't very good at it, is a desperate excuse and one I doubt you'll get away with.

Time to wrestle back you club from James Hird and his disciples, before they destroy it trying to save their own skins.
Time to lay the blame where it clearly belongs, rather than regurgitating lies, deflections and hopeless excuses.

AOD has shown a "potential" to repair in basic preliminary testing, not grow muscle mass which has been the accusation.

Cheating will depend on the proof Essendon believe they have showing why they could use it within the rules.

 

[nineteen eighty]

One of the more laughable myths going around. As if anyone from Essendon would care what a Carlton supporter thought of them, for example.

I'm also sure James will be fine post his football career - but thanks for caring anyway.

Are you guys blind to the effect it is having on your club. My god, Jobe had tears in his eyes after the game. The tears were not because of a hard fought win. The kid has been fantastic through this but it's affecting him terribly. And it's affecting his family.

Stop being so blind mate. Support your club but don't be afraid to ask questions of them. Your coaching staff have fcked the players over and are in the process of bringing your club down. And yet the sheer arrogance of Hird will not allow him to do the right thing. The Bomber players have nothing but my full support. I played myself and know what it's like operating in a club environment. The players got played. Nothing should happen to them. It's been and done...lets move on. The club needs to be HEAVILY sanctioned that includes points and draft picks. And a massive fine. One or more of the coaches need to be banned from holding any position at any level of football for life. And that includes Hird.

 

[Armchair Critic]

AOD has shown a "potential" to repair in basic preliminary testing, not grow muscle mass which has been the accusation.

Cheating will depend on the proof Essendon believe they have showing why they could use it within the rules.

Essendon used it as part of a supplement program though, not a medical program for injured players , it will be a hard argument to make if the whole group used it, It's possible if it was only used on injured players

 

[simoro1]

Essendon used it as part of a supplement program though, not a medical program for injured players , it will be a hard argument to make if the whole group used it, It's possible if it was only used on injured players

we did have many an injury last year

 

[Blueboys11]

Might want to read past that 'look at me' headline & then realise there is sfa substance to the article...

So an ASADA spokesman declaring AOD is a banned substance under all circumstances since 2011 is nothing??

Lol

 

[The_Ru]

AOD has shown a "potential" to repair in basic preliminary testing, not grow muscle mass which has been the accusation.

Cheating will depend on the proof Essendon believe they have showing why they could use it within the rules.

No it won't. "Cheating" will depend on whether Essendon are deemed to have breached the WADA code. Performance enhancement, in this context, is a straw man.

 

[SPREWELL]

To quote that Age article...



Are you seriously telling me no player could challenge any sanction in a court of law? AFL may be a signatory of WADA but it doesn't mean it can't be challenged.

Spot on.

 

[Bombfire]

Are you guys blind to the effect it is having on your club. My god, Jobe had tears in his eyes after the game. The tears were not because of a hard fought win. The kid has been fantastic through this but it's affecting him terribly. And it's affecting his family.

Stop being so blind mate. Support your club but don't be afraid to ask questions of them. Your coaching staff have fcked the players over and are in the process of bringing your club down. And yet the sheer arrogance of Hird will not allow him to do the right thing. The Bomber players have nothing but my full support. I played myself and know what it's like operating in a club environment. The players got played. Nothing should happen to them. It's been and done...lets move on. The club needs to be HEAVILY sanctioned that includes points and draft picks. And a massive fine. One or more of the coaches need to be banned from holding any position at any level of football for life. And that includes Hird.

Jobe shed a few tears for the club and players that are being unfairly maligned, a club he loves and respects, including all of its coaches. That is why he busted his gut to get them over the line; none of which your comments relate to.

 

[Bombfire]

No lawyer provides his professional opinion for free, so my question stands, who paid for this article?

Essendon, Jobe or more likely Jobe's management company?

You're funny, haven't you seen "The Castle"?

 

[Gigantor]

No lawyer provides his professional opinion for free, so my question stands, who paid for this article?

That's incorrect - stacks of lawyers do pro bono work.