Watson and Bombers have a 'fighting chance'

[Lance Uppercut]

The same lawyers that will try and get the Bombers off with 'loopholes' are the same people who defend murderers and pedophiles.

Absolute scum.

Uh huh

 

[The_Ru]

We know every player on essendons list didnt receive it. We know trengrove had it to treat a foot injury. We know it has potential to repair and nothing much else.

We don't know how often Jobe was injected or what afflictions he may have been suffering at the time

We "know" no such thing. Point me to the clinical tests that say anything other than it's a failure as a weight-loss drug. It's PE effects are untested.

It is likely that it's snake oil, but we don't know it is. Stop peddling this misinformation mxett.

 

[Gigantor]

You keep referring to the likelihood of court challenges to unjust decision. I agree, there certainly would have to be a legal redress in the case of an unjust decision.

However, how do you argue that banning players who have been injected multiple times with an "over the line" substance (i.e. meets all the requirements of s0), that has not been properly clinically trialed in the way that you are using it, and the team is using for the very reason that it is giving them some advantage over the competition, is unjust?

I just don't think it is as clear cut as you are making out, otherwise, we would have seen an infraction notice by now.

On top of that, there is no evidence it's the slightest bit performance enhancing.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

AOD has shown a "potential" to repair in basic preliminary testing, not grow muscle mass which has been the accusation.

Cheating will depend on the proof Essendon believe they have showing why they could use it within the rules.

ahem

AOD-9604 is a variant of growth hormone which has fat burning properties and may be used by athletes to increase power to weight ratios by better utilisation of fat stores. AOD-9604 is about to enter phase three clinical trials. During phase two clinical trials it was also found to have an anabolic effect on cartilage tissue and may promote cartilage creation and repair and have a capacity to enhance muscle formation.

Sources: http://www.crimecommission.gov.au/s...ganised-crime-and-drugs-in-sports-feb2013.pdf
and http://calzada.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/132F042F2012103A223A05PM.pdf

You're right in that it's only been tested in clinical trials and therefore the results aren't proven, but what evidence was Dank using to justify its use then?

"whether it could be used within the rules"? anabolic steroids can be used with the best intentions, does that make it any less banned? either way, that's irrelevant, the cheating depends on whether or not it's banned under WADA protocols. WADA are the authority on all anti-doping matters, not essendon. WADA feel that non-approved substances should be automatically banned, and they have a legitimate argument for that. The AFL is ASADA/WADA compliant, essendon understood and agreed to that. deviation from those rules only to contest that WADA are wrong is arrogance of the highest order.

 

[The_Reaper]

Only unfair because of a technicality, not because its a ped. Spot the difference?

Nope.
It's unfair because it is possibly a superior healing method to what is avaliable to legitimate players.
Which means players perform better because they recover from injury quicker and are not affected by niggling injuries

 

[mxett]

We "know" no such thing. Point me to the clinical tests that say anything other than it's a failure as a weight-loss drug. It's PE effects are untested.

It is likely that it's snake oil, but we don't know it is. Stop peddling this misinformation mxett.

Rubbish. They have been tested and AOD does not produce HGH or produce muscle growth.

 

[Southern Urchins]

Rubbish. They have been tested and AOD does not produce HGH or produce muscle growth.

With all your medical and legal knowledge why do you waste so much time on the Interwebz?

 

[mxett]

ahem



Sources: http://www.crimecommission.gov.au/s...ganised-crime-and-drugs-in-sports-feb2013.pdf
and http://calzada.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/132F042F2012103A223A05PM.pdf

You're right in that it's only been tested in clinical trials and therefore the results aren't proven, but what evidence was Dank using to justify its use then?

"whether it could be used within the rules"? anabolic steroids can be used with the best intentions, does that make it any less banned? either way, that's irrelevant, the cheating depends on whether or not it's banned under WADA protocols. WADA are the authority on all anti-doping matters, not essendon. WADA feel that non-approved substances should be automatically banned, and they have a legitimate argument for that. The AFL is ASADA/WADA compliant, essendon understood and agreed to that. deviation from those rules only to contest that WADA are wrong is arrogance of the highest order.

Calzada released a clarification which corrected the ACCs misinformation. As I stated it has potential for joint repair, which is unproven in human trials, but does not produce muscle generation which was a deliberate intention in its design. Check the dedicated thread on AOD.

 

[mxett]

With all your medical and legal knowledge why do you waste so much time on the Interwebz?

At least this is my team! Whats the excuse of all the obsessed haters?

 

[Southern Urchins]

So is LARS surgery cheating? It allows players to play in a fraction of the recovery time compared to onventional ACL repair.

So Warney was incorrectly suspended because a diuretic isn't a PED?
Oh, it's on the ban list though you say....sound familiar?

 

[mxett]

So Warney was incorrectly suspended because a diuretic isn't a PED?
Oh, it's on the ban list though you say....sound familiar?

There's a lot more to this case than has been revealed so far, surely you acknowledge that. I don't think its as cut and dry as Warnes case

 

[coolangatta_kid]

AOD is so minor in all this

Hexarelin, Cerebrolysin and THymosin are what is going to bring down Essendon

 

[Southern Urchins]

At least this is my team! Whats the excuse of all the obsessed haters?

Because OUR teams and the competition WE play in has been compromised.
If this was Dane Swan or Chris Judd and their Brownlow's, I'm sure you'd be as eager to defend them? Yeah nah!

That's the problem with you Essendon blokes, you think this is a Eddie McGuire style "Us vs Them". I don't care if Bock, GWS, Melbourne, Geelong, Hawthorn, whoever gets drawn into this. I hate drugs period and I hate cheating! I refuse to watch the Tour De Farce since Armstrong went down. We can't have a level playing field when COLA's, Fixtures, Priority picks, etc exist, but we can kick the friggin cheats out of the game.

This is not about Essendon, it's about the integrity of the game.

I'd love to see this thread if it was Buddy and he was suspended for the strike 3456234456 that he apparently has. And that's for recreational drugs and everyone still carries on. Get fair dinkum, you got conned, took the shit and now need to pay the price!

 

[15hodge]

Rubbish. They have been tested and AOD does not produce HGH or produce muscle growth.

Rubbish. You know it promotes differentiation of muscle progenitor cells.

 

[mxett]

Rubbish. You know it promotes differentiation of muscle progenitor cells.

I know prof Wittert says it does essentially nothing and was specifically designed not to enhance performance via muscle mass increase. I know recent non human research showed it only aided repair.

 

[mxett]

Because OUR teams and the competition WE play in has been compromised.
If this was Dane Swan or Chris Judd and their Brownlow's, I'm sure you'd be as eager to defend them? Yeah nah!

That's the problem with you Essendon blokes, you think this is a Eddie McGuire style "Us vs Them". I don't care if Bock, GWS, Melbourne, Geelong, Hawthorn, whoever gets drawn into this. I hate drugs period and I hate cheating! I refuse to watch the Tour De Farce since Armstrong went down. We can't have a level playing field when COLA's, Fixtures, Priority picks, etc exist, but we can kick the friggin cheats out of the game.

This is not about Essendon, it's about the integrity of the game.

I'd love to see this thread if it was Buddy and he was suspended for the strike 3456234456 that he apparently has. And that's for recreational drugs and everyone still carries on. Get fair dinkum, you got conned, took the shit and now need to pay the price!

Yes all the people on here claiming Hird is a deliberate dope cheat are concerned for the game. Give me a break

 

[Southern Urchins]

There's a lot more to this case than has been revealed so far, surely you acknowledge that. I don't think its as cut and dry as Warnes case

Your consistent defence is the AOD is not a PED. It apparently has no medical benefit.
So, what performance enhancing benefit does a diuretic have? ZERO! I'm using this to demonstrate the flaws in your argument.

I think one thing is cut and dry though, AOD is on the prohibited list. Did Dank lie? That's the murky bit. But for me, that's for Essendon to sue him later if that's the case. Any player who took AOD should not be playing at the moment. Not just Essendon, ANYONE!

Remember. Milne said he's innocent, but he's stood down. Watson said he's guilty, yet he's playing. Explain that one?

Meanwhile, Vlad sits on the Greek Islands sunning himself and doing nothing!

Whatever Watson's motive, he's admitted use and should receive an infraction. Now!

 

[Southern Urchins]

Yes all the people on here claiming Hird is a deliberate dope cheat are concerned for the game. Give me a break

Thanks for not addressing my points.

No doubt there are a fair amount of trolls, but I believe the majority are just footy fans that want a clean and level playing field with regards to things that our outside the AFL's control like Fixtures, Priority picks etc. The AFL can't control what Sport Scientists are pumping into players, but they can sure put a stop to it and issue punishments.

P.s. I don't care what Hird took. I'm surprised that at first he was "shocked and dismayed", then knew all of a sudden everything was legit and was confident of being cleared. I only care about the blokes lacing up the boots, currently playing that took this shit. I want them on the sidelines ASAP. Stop with the siege mentality, this is about integrity, not Essendon. I have no doubt other clubs have taken similar shit! No prisoners ASADA and AFL.

 

[jenny61_99]

And apparently Doc Larkins claims that Dank's lawyer is in possession of the letter. Where does that leave us now?

Did you read what Larkins actually said? He said "IF the letter exists." He makes no such claims.

 

[mxett]

Your consistent defence is the AOD is not a PED. It apparently has no medical benefit.
So, what performance enhancing benefit does a diuretic have? ZERO! I'm using this to demonstrate the flaws in your argument.

I think one thing is cut and dry though, AOD is on the prohibited list. Did Dank lie? That's the murky bit. But for me, that's for Essendon to sue him later if that's the case. Any player who took AOD should not be playing at the moment. Not just Essendon, ANYONE!

Remember. Milne said he's innocent, but he's stood down. Watson said he's guilty, yet he's playing. Explain that one?

Meanwhile, Vlad sits on the Greek Islands sunning himself and doing nothing!

Whatever Watson's motive, he's admitted use and should receive an infraction. Now!

Partly the defense.

I'm also defending the fact people believe Essendon are having a good season because of a failed anti obesity drug that maybe less than a dozen players were given. I'm also not stating it has no benefit, only that if it does it is only a potential repair.

Yes its banned under s0, I'm not contending that. The question I have is why the club still firmly believe they were able to use it and players won't be banned for using. This information is yet to come out

 

[jenny61_99]

Said this in the S0 thread and applies here...

I had a read of the ACC report and it does seem to contradict itself re AOD.







My take on this is that the Bombers will be relying on this report to get the players off. They won't succeed as the WADA code CLEARLY states that it falls under the S0 umbrella. The last bolded bit is what the Bombers may try to exploit. However, it is not incorrect. The author of the report simply should have included the words...

"under S2 but is prohibited under S0".

OR

The Bombers have a letter from ASADA saying it is not prohibited but I tend to think that is not the case given they have sacked people over all of this and would have leaked it if they had it in order to get the media and public off their backs. They would not allow themselves to have their brand tarnished to such an extent if a letter of approval existed.

They can't get off AT ALL based on what was written in the ACC report because the report was written AFTER they had pumped drugs into their players. It is only now they are trying to use that ambiguity as an excuse.

 

[15hodge]

Yes all the people on here claiming Hird is a deliberate dope cheat are concerned for the game. Give me a break

Yes all the people trying to find loopholes in the WADA code to exonerate their heroes despite them using the players as "guinea pigs" are concerned for the game. We know your priorities.

 

[Southern Urchins]

Partly the defense.

I'm also defending the fact people believe Essendon are having a good season because of a failed anti obesity drug that maybe less than a dozen players were given. I'm also not stating it has no benefit, only that if it does it is only a potential repair.

Yes its banned under s0, I'm not contending that. The question I have is why the club still firmly believe they were able to use it and players won't be banned for using. This information is yet to come out

And what people think equals the integrity of the game. The Mums and Dads, the sponsors, the rank and file etc.
I don't care if Essendon is top or bottom. If they took a banned substances (which Jobe did by his own admissions), they need to face a tribunal now!

At such a hearing, Jobe can mitigate away before they consider punishment. But the FACT remains, he's admitted use and should face an infraction immediately.

Again, you're obsessing over troll bait. And again, would you be so strong on defence if this was Chris Judd, Dane Swan or Lance Franklin?

Maybe the club are just dirty rotten cheats like Lance Armstrong? Maybe Dank lied? Maybe they are ignorant? Who knows? But how is that relevant to Jobe and the other consumers of this substance still playing? If this was Sydney who we just lost a Grand Final to I'd be 10 times more filthy. No sanction would be of comfort to anyone at Hawthorn. Let's prevent such a situation from occurring by acting now!

 

[mxett]

Yes all the people trying to find loopholes in the WADA code to exonerate their heroes despite them using the players as "guinea pigs" are concerned for the game. We know your priorities.

They aren't looking for loopholes. Doc Reid allowed the use of AOD because he believed it was safe and compliant to use before they used it

 

[coolangatta_kid]

They can't get off AT ALL based on what was written in the ACC report because the report was written AFTER they had pumped drugs into their players. It is only now they are trying to use that ambiguity as an excuse.

And on top of that its irrelevant what an ACC report says anyway, only matters what WADA/ASADA say is banned or not

Hell the ACC aren't even allowed to hand over their collected evidence to WADA/ASADA so the Bombers should just leave the ACC report right out of it

And as you said the report didnt even exist when they were pumping their players full of god knows what