Waverley to newscorp?

[InTheBack!]

A rumour in an article in realfooty today that part of the 9 deal involves Newscorp buying Waverley to bail out the AFL.

Scarey stuff, if it being considered.

We dont want to be owned by Rupert who is only interested in getting everyone onto cable!

Having said that the massive financial problems Newscorp have had with Rugby League - i.e. not enough people have subscribed to cable & supporting clubs is a big black $$$$$ hole, will hopefully mean they will back off this.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Well there is absolutely no doubt that News Corp has had its fingers burnt yery badly by the Super League 'adventure'.

What this means is that News Corp will be very wary of getting entangled in trying to take over another Australian Sport. Naturally this caution increases expotentially with a sport as huge as AFL.

News Corp would not want to take over Waverley unless it was absolutely certain it could make money outta the place.

And how are you supposed to do that I wonder ? The sale price is $80m but what do you get for your money ? - a badly designed and shabbily constructed giant concrete bowl in the middle of nowhere that you can't do anything with because it has a Heriatge listing - hmmmm.

The only way any buyer can make money out of this deal is to bulldoze the stadium and subdivide the land for residential development. That can't happen because of the heritage listing - so I think News Corp wouldn't touch Waverley with a barge pole.

Unless they are far dumber than I think they are - and just looking over the wreckage that was once Rugby League - maybe they are.

cheers

 

[Pessimistic]

BSA, you are usually astute, but you seemed to have swallowed the company line on waverley.

Even though we have moved on the fact that Waverley park (the block of land) is nearly as big as the docklands precinct (which, 5 years later looks like a hi-tech stadium 'landed' in a wasteland) and can be developed in many ways other than housing (or any other activity which guarantees football will never be played there again - the express hope of the AFL)by any busisness with enough nous.

Heritage listing and Planning laws prevent 'owners' of land developing it in unsuitable ways (a nuclear power plant might be profitable but hardly desirable). That the AFL seemed to think it above such laws - eager to get it's hands on the dought (while getting the colonial land for free - I might add)Just shows how arrogant they are - makes carlton and essendon look positively timid.

Sure the stadium is 30 years old but could have been made into a suitable place for a fraction of the cost of colonial - and it would have been profitable.

And as the stadium stands it's a lot better than a few currently used by the AFL

[This message has been edited by Pessimistic (edited 16 November 2000).]

 

[Pessimistic]

Just another point on Colonial.

It's not that easy to get to from the east.

The MCG is fine (trains, road etc) but it's not easy for colonial

Trains - they all seem to change at flinders st at night (when games are on) 15 mins waiting at flinders meas the place might as well be in footscray !

Road - A lot of the designated car parks are along way from the stadium - the traffic can be heavy though the city or you can always pay a toll (funny that)

There's something fishy about a city where all the population lives on one side and all the entertainment (Racecourses, showgrounds, Colonial, Crown, Aquarium etc is on the other side - and you have to pay a toll. If the oil ever does run out Melbourne will be seen as very inefficient.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Pess - Since Colonial is now up and running and there is now no chance of AFL footy returning to Waverley I have moved on a little from my earlier opinions.

I whole heartedly agree with you - Waverley could have been modernised and upgraded (with tansport links) at a mere fraction of the cost of building Colonial, but it wasn't and whats done is done - So I'm moving on from the "Lets save Waverley" arguement to the "What shall we do with Waverley ?" arguement.

You say that any astute business should be able to make money from the place - ummm how exactly ? I can't see how anyone could make Waverley pay, given that its price tag is $80m and the new owner is somewhat restricted in what they can do with it.

Any suggestions ?

The Stadium itself is suitable for a number of uses - but would any of these ventures make enough money to retiurn that investment ? Don't forget we are talikng about 80mils here.

cheers

 

[Pessimistic]

The heritage listing means that developments need to go through an extra planning process before being approved.
If the new use were to provide the 'service' that was provided before then it might meet the requirements of the listing (eg small soccer stadium etc.

They were talking about 5 billion of investment in docklands - surely if that was feasable some 'mixed use' of waverley park would be too.

Just because the AFL have underutilised the place for several years it doesn't mean the new owner would do that.

It's like I operate a furniture store and I have two branches, in richmond and glen waverley. I decide I can be more profitable (cut costs)by just having the richmond store. I close the glen waverley store and to force my existing customers to travel the extra distance, I try to make the new owner of the glen waverley store convert the land to housing. But if someone else wants to buy it and start up in the furniture business - do I have the right to stop them ? I think not.

So why don't they sell it and let the new owner do with it as they wish ? There was even talk of the AFL developing the site themselves - what a joke ! They haven't done that for thirty years ! And I'm sure the tax man would be interested in a 'non- profit' organisation going into property development

Incidentally, the glasshouse is heritage listed - you don't get them bellyaching about not being able to bulldoze it - they are just quietly trying to find a new appropriate use for it.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Fair enough - can't argue with that

So how about some suggestions for use ?

I'm not well acquainted with Melbourne's sporting facilities but maybe the venue could be used for things like :

Harness Racing
Greyhounds
Speedway
Soccer
Athletics
Rugby

and hey, maybe a future HQ for the VFL ...

cheers

 

[CJH]

The actual stadium at Waverley takes up only a fraction of the overall land. Surely it is just the stadium that has the Heritage listing? You would never want to heritage list a car park!

Whoever bought it could retain the stadium for VFL / community purposes and sub divide / develop the rest, thus getting some sort of retrurn on investment.

Just an option!

------------------
This is a hallucination and these faces are in a dream. A computer generated environment; a fantasy island you can do anything and not have to face the consequences.

 

[Mags]

I think newscorp have some kinda plan with waverley! News Corp has plenty of money! Im thinking they are going to do it up! Coz 9 if gets the tv rigths there is going to be trouble getting into colonial coz 7 will try and be arseholes and course alot of problems!

They should turn Waverley into a Rectanglur stadium if there isnt going to be any Afl games there anymore!

[This message has been edited by Mags (edited 16 November 2000).]

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

what ?

 

[Pessimistic]

I think something similar to the ideas put forward for docklands - mixed use - sports facilities, some business, some medium density housing. Hawthorn and it's backers had plenty of ideas but they were all ignored by the AFL. The best thing that could happen is if they sell it but they should have no right to dictate it's future usage.
To put the size of the place into context it is about four times the size of chadstone (shopping complex) The footy round is only approx 20% or that

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Oh sorry Mags - you've edited that last one - all makes sense now !

cheers

 

[RICE80SF]

I can't understand this new found, Joni Mitchell (don't it always seem to go.....)romantic love of ARCTIC PARK.

The place was a hole, pure and simple. With no, thats right no, train lines to the stadium and a nightmare to get out of in a car. You needed a telescope to see the games, and that was before they made the playing area smaller. It was smack bang in the middle of a rainbelt, and had little shelter.

I know it's rough on people from Dandenong and beyond, but the place needed more than a lick of paint, it needed tens of millions spent on it. It could only be used for footy, no concerts, cricket, masses (

), nothing to suplement it in the off season. I realy think the AFL was stuck between a rock and a hard place, where out East were they able to build a Stadium next to a train line?

We're talking about $80 million here people for not only the clubs but for footy at grass roots level all around Aust.. All stopped by a w***er council from Waverley. It may not take up the majority of the land but it's a big slab, none the less, or 10 - 20 million discount on the sale.

This isn't just a Bomber supporter from Colonial talking, one E. McGuire from Collingwood (MCG) was livid with the Heritage listing, he knows what it meens to footy.

I cannot see any team having to fold or merge with the money from Waverley and future TV rights. Clubs are run far better financialy than in the past and this can only help the AFL in the future, but they need that Waverley money.

I don't agree with the doom and gloom spoken by Greg Baum in his article today, what with Basketball, Soccer and to a certain extent Rugby all falling in popularity. We still have to foster the game at grass roots however and a gigantic concrete bowl doing nothing won't help, it can only hinder.

If News Corp buy Waverley I don't see how that effects the control of the AFL? Surely it doesn't matter who buys it.

Cheers.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

yeah thats the point I'm trying to allude to

For all intents and purposes, the only way a buyer of Waverley can get a return on an $80m investment is to demolish the stadium and redevelope the site (residentail - light industrial - whatever).

However the Heritage listing has severly compromised the value of the asset in the eyes of many potential investors.

Mags raises an important point about what might happen if Channel Nine win the broadcast rights but Channel 7 decides to play 'hardball' with access at Colonial.

Waverley suddenly becomes absolutely critical in this kind of scenario, Like Ricey suggests it will be required by Nine as a fall-back option.

Watch this space - things are going to get very interesting over the next few weeks.

- And I was worried about not having anything to talk about over the off season !

cheers

 

[Pessimistic]

Do we really believe that waverley sale money was going to go to 'save' the clubs ? Or just be spent on bigger players salaries, Junkets to wherever, the bottomless task of promoting footy in brisbane and sydney who probabaly don't want it anyway.

Wacko Jacko (who despite the 'new' beginning a few weeks ago has not changed) Only suggested thet money would go to Vic clubs when the sale looked dodgy - If they'd had their way it would have been spirited away to 'projects' in other states

I've got a good idea for the waverley sale proceeds - ise it to convert the G into a super 'peoples' ground with 120,000 capacity. The whether the clubs survive or not never seems to have much to do with money - Did fitzroy benefit from recent increases in earnings ?

 

[Mags]

Someone said getting out of the carpark was hard didnt they?

Well how would u except to get 75,000 plus crowd out of the ground in less then 5 mins!

Its the same at the G too takes forever to get out of the carpark with the same sorta crowd!

What I use to do was if I ever caught public transport was get a bus from Nunawading or park the car in Safeway!

Waverley is pretty simple to get too as far as im concerned! Its alot easier the getting to the Scg from where I use to live in sydney!

There was no train line to get to the Sydney Cricket Ground! U had to get a bus from Central which takes up to half an hour at sometimes! But no one is complaining about that are they?

Stop Whinging Against Waverley about no public transport out there! Who cares! Ever heard of shuttle buses From train stations?

It will be interseting to see how long 7 will let 9 use Colonial for Cricket! With another Super Challenge Series to be played there next year.

Mags
Black And White Forever

 

[Mags]

As well!

The afl are using waverley as a bloody excuse to rase entry prices up!

They were always going to raise up anyway!

 

[Shinboners]

I'm afraid that Pess is right. Any money from selling Arctic Park will go to the players and administrators, not to the game itself. It seems to me that the game does generate enough money, but you won't see any of it going to your local surburban competition. And don't forget, it was only a year or two ago that the AFL wanted to introduce a rule that players could only get drafted if they played in "approved" competitions like the VFL, TAC Cup, Westar, SANFL etc. The effect would have been that clubs could not recruit from, say the Amateur competition.

Also agree with Rice80...Arctic Park was a dump.

Lastly, onto News Corp. Their only interest in Arctic Park would have been to use it as a bargaining chip in relation to getting rights to use Colonial Stadium. News Corp part owns Foxtel (along with PBL and Telstra), and are thus, in direct competition with Channel 7. From Channel 7's view, it's preferable to let these other stations in and get *some* use out of Colonial rather than let them move games to Arctic Park and have no revenue generated from Colonial.

In the end though, News Corp got burnt by their rubgy exercises. They are also trying to float off their PayTV assets, so obviously Murdoch is seeing losses and wants to raise some cash. It's almost as if he realises that News Corp is massively overvalued (I think they've been trading at something like 60 or 70 times earnings), so any more slip ups and his share price may come tumbling down.