Strength Weight Training: Anything and Everything II

[Mofra]

yes but if the time under tension is the same then what's the difference? i know the answer but give it a shot...

As an uneducated guess, the "normal" way places almost all the stress on the concentric phase of the movement and the slow timed splits the stress 50/50?

 

[Contra Mundum]

a very brief pain science lesson - old injuries hang around mentally rather then physically meaning the physical injury clears up but the brain signals stays there instead of changing to 'it's gone so stop sending pain messages"

the dull pain is what is called a neural tag which is a "spot' the brain still thinks is injured thus sending those pain msg's out...now i'm still not 100% sure how to get rid of these (i'm not sure anyone does yet?) but here's a few options for you:

- sitting is just shit so do as little of it as you can but obviously there are times where you just have to...make sure you wiggle around a fair but though so as not to get stuck in the 1 posture for too long

- train the "core" with anti movement exercises such as planks, roll outs, pallof presses and such but focus on creating as much tension as you possibly can, not focusing on holding times or reps...the more tension you create the less time/reps you'll be able to do anyway...tension refers to squeezing the entire body "against itself' for a lack of better term so for a plank go up in the basic position, get your arse squeezed into posteriour pelvic tilt (upwards towards the rib cage at the front)...your feet and elbows are pushing hard in the ground (think pushing yourself away from the ground as high as you can) but don';t go overboard at the shoulders where you round your upper back...your feet and elbows are also being pulled towards each other as hard as you can but actually going nowhere

- learn how to breathe...proper breathing uses the diaphragm which is he biggest 'core' muscle we have so if that's strong then it will send off a lot of minor issues people have...do this with belly breathing and use these breathes with your core exercises...breath in your nose x 5secs, hold x 1sec and release by literally pushing the air out of your mouth over 5 secs = 10 or so secs per rep...do single reps for starters then doubles and triples..do for all core exercises

- make sure you do arse squeezing + core tension on all exercises, core, back, legs whatever

- sit ups are shit so don't worry about those but if there's minimal pain then deads are a great choice to do this core/glute stuff but if they are too painful then don't - and try them from an elevated surface (knee ht etc)

Thanks brother informative as always - its true what you say, I am going to do some light deads soon - it's was just when I was doing them a week after the initial tweek it was like an electric shock up my back and my physio (who is fantastic) said "better avoid them" - I am doing standing military presses and leg press work so can't see why a dead lift would be any more painful

 

[Training Mad]

well remember to base your weights off 90% of your max so if your 1rm was 80 then 80 x .9 = 72 and base the weekly loads off 72

add in 1 exercise for hypertrophy stuff as well x 30 - 50 reps where for you i'd use the lower end of that initially as you've just come off high rep/low load stuff

and you'll need at least 3 - 4 cycles of this to see a return

Thanks I have used the spread sheet from theses guys (www.DIY-StrengthTraining.com) for all the weight conversions and I was planning on doing DL which should cover the hypertrophy stuff.

4 workouts per week

I will give it 4 cycles too, just to see what results are.

From your experience what are the ideal lengths for sprinting 100, 200, 400 or 1kms??

 

[cptkirk]

As an uneducated guess, the "normal" way places almost all the stress on the concentric phase of the movement and the slow timed splits the stress 50/50?[/QUote)

hypertrophy is achieved through 3 ways:

muscle damage
muscle stress
muscle tension

regular pull ups probably falls under the stress part and ecc falls under the tension part and also damage as well

 

[cptkirk]

Thanks brother informative as always - its true what you say, I am going to do some light deads soon - it's was just when I was doing them a week after the initial tweek it was like an electric shock up my back and my physio (who is fantastic) said "better avoid them" - I am doing standing military presses and leg press work so can't see why a dead lift would be any more painful

military press is fine and it should teach you to really squeeze your arse to take the stress off the back but i'd be hesitant with the leg press as it forces you into lumbar flexion...deads are for safer for backs then leg press imo but like i said start in a shorter-pain free range of motion for deads and work from there

 

[cptkirk]

Thanks I have used the spread sheet from theses guys (www.DIY-StrengthTraining.com) for all the weight conversions and I was planning on doing DL which should cover the hypertrophy stuff.

4 workouts per week

I will give it 4 cycles too, just to see what results are.

From your experience what are the ideal lengths for sprinting 100, 200, 400 or 1kms??

sprinting for what? obviously the longer the distance the less of a sprint it is...

 

[Training Mad]

sprinting for what? obviously the longer the distance the less of a sprint it is...

I play footy and love to run so I enjoy running all distances up to 25kms, but don't think this will help with the 531, so want to back it off to just sprints have currently been doing sprints once a week 10 x 200m with 30 sec rest and speeds have been strong right through all 10sets.
Was planning on doing this post workout and stopping the long runs.

 

[Contra Mundum]

- sitting is just shit so do as little of it as you can but obviously there are times where you just have to...make sure you wiggle around a fair but though so as not to get stuck in the 1 posture for too long

military press is fine and it should teach you to really squeeze your arse to take the stress off the back but i'd be hesitant with the leg press as it forces you into lumbar flexion...deads are for safer for backs then leg press imo but like i said start in a shorter-pain free range of motion for deads and work from there

Thanks Kirky your a champ - does feel funny doing the leg press

 

[Cats fan 16]

Thanks Kirky your a champ - does feel funny doing the leg press

Agree on the leg press. Kirky has given one of the best simple pain science explanations i've seen (neurotag and nerves becoming sensitive and firing even in the absence of tissue damage).

I'd add that if pain with driving, sit with a lumbar support across lower back to maintain natural lordosis.

Deadlifts are great but form has to be spot on, with good hip flexion range of motion to avoid lumbar flexion, you sound like you have flexion based pain so i'd steer clear until no symptoms whatsoever.

 

[cptkirk]

Cats - how do we get rid of/alleviate a neural tag? mine has played up 3 times in 3 weeks

 

[Contra Mundum]

Agree on the leg press. Kirky has given one of the best simple pain science explanations i've seen (neurotag and nerves becoming sensitive and firing even in the absence of tissue damage).

I'd add that if pain with driving, sit with a lumbar support across lower back to maintain natural lordosis.

Deadlifts are great but form has to be spot on, with good hip flexion range of motion to avoid lumbar flexion, you sound like you have flexion based pain so i'd steer clear until no symptoms whatsoever.

Because I am such an old prick my deadlift form is meticulous - its an exercise I love to do. Thanks for the tip CF16

 

[Cats fan 16]

Cats - how do we get rid of/alleviate a neural tag? mine has played up 3 times in 3 weeks

There is no simple answer to it, but education is key. Realising that pain does not necessary = harm is a good place to start. You basically have to prove to the central nervous system that there is no 'threat' from that movement. Pain is all about perceived threat from the brain - if the brain thinks you are in trouble, it will produce pain as an ouput. So pushing through the pain to an extent should start to alleviate it and desensitise your system to that movement.

Pain is 100% in the brain, and can be an incredible alarm system or a malfunctioning nightmare.

A lot of treatment for chronic regional pain syndrome is going towards mirror therapy, in which the opposite side to the injured side is moved in movements that would be painful on the injured side infront of a mirror. The mirror tricks the brain into thinking that the injured side is moving and is performing the movement painfree. This decreases perceived threat and therefore pain.

 

[cptkirk]

agree on all fronts - i haven't read about the mirror therapy though and that sounds interesting

the reason i ask is that i have a lower back that blows out maybe once a year - usually around this time when my training load is at its peak...anyway right on schedule 3 weeks ago it blew out mildly...now i can have these episodes, do some rehab and train the next day mostly, it lingers for a but then goes away

this time though i did the rehab, it went away then came back about a week later, hung around for the week then flared up again...now obviously me keeping on training with increasing load/vol etc doesn't help but i also know there isn't an injury there but rather a neural tag...but yesterday i was only running (2 x 30secs sprints) and i had to go home...trained again today though with upper body and then some machine cardio which eases the pain up (graded exposure) as usual but i need to get the last 25% of the pain rid off - tips?

 

[Cristiano Ronaldo]

I'm tryna make gains through my whole body. I am skinny. The part which i want to look noticeably different are my biceps. I've been lifting for 2 weeks now and i see only a slight change. Btw i'm working out my whole body with only dumbells and a barbell. I do it Monday to Friday with the weekend allocated for rest (i need it after leg day on Friday!). Anyway, my biceps look pretty big right after a workout but disappear again in the next couple of days. My question is: How the **** do i make them looking big in general without stressing, like how it looks after a workout? Should i be more patient? Should i work my biceps out 3-5 days a week? Do i need to eat more? Creatine? Protein powder? What's the secret here?

So far the answers i've got are:
- Wait 5 weeks til you start to see results, and
- Wait a couple of months before seeing results and don't be obsessed over 1 muscle

 

[saj_21]

I'm tryna make gains through my whole body. I am skinny. The part which i want to look noticeably different are my biceps. I've been lifting for 2 weeks now and i see only a slight change. Btw i'm working out my whole body with only dumbells and a barbell. I do it Monday to Friday with the weekend allocated for rest (i need it after leg day on Friday!). Anyway, my biceps look pretty big right after a workout but disappear again in the next couple of days. My question is: How the **** do i make them looking big in general without stressing, like how it looks after a workout? Should i be more patient? Should i work my biceps out 3-5 days a week? Do i need to eat more? Creatine? Protein powder? What's the secret here?

So far the answers i've got are:
- Wait 5 weeks til you start to see results, and
- Wait a couple of months before seeing results and don't be obsessed over 1 muscle

Assuming you aren't taking the piss on us in this thread;

First off, i don't need to ask why the quest for big arms, because we know all guys want big arms. Secondly, if you want to look bigger focus of legs/chest/back the major muscle groups. Thirdly if you are hell bent on bigger arms focus on triceps, there is three tricep muscles to two bicep muscle.

If i read correctly you are doing a full body work out each day Monday to Friday? This is not ideal as you aren't giving your body time to recover, if you are a complete newbie then you will still grow but you will reach a point in the near future where plateau by not allowing enough time to rest. A much better option is to do a full body work out every second day, after a couple of months you can split up your work into muscle groups such as legs, back/bis, chest etc.

The reason you arms are bigger during exercise is the purely the blood flow to the area and then of course once you finish the blood is not as great. Some people can experience some muscle swelling which subsides with recovery too.

Eat more if you are maintaining your body weight, protein shakes can help get extra calories in but you can just eat more food. Creatine will help. No don't work jsut your biceps 3-5 days a week. There is no secret, it comes down to consistency and hard work.

 

[TurboBreuster]

I'm tryna make gains through my whole body. I am skinny. The part which i want to look noticeably different are my biceps. I've been lifting for 2 weeks now and i see only a slight change. Btw i'm working out my whole body with only dumbells and a barbell. I do it Monday to Friday with the weekend allocated for rest (i need it after leg day on Friday!). Anyway, my biceps look pretty big right after a workout but disappear again in the next couple of days. My question is: How the **** do i make them looking big in general without stressing, like how it looks after a workout? Should i be more patient? Should i work my biceps out 3-5 days a week? Do i need to eat more? Creatine? Protein powder? What's the secret here?

So far the answers i've got are:
- Wait 5 weeks til you start to see results, and
- Wait a couple of months before seeing results and don't be obsessed over 1 muscle

Do 3 or 4 x 40-60 min weight sessions per week, preferably something like (Mon, Tue, Thur and Fri) OR (Mon, Tue, Fri and Sat) of weights, concentrating on good technique and building long term habits. It would be ideal for you if you can build good form for Squats, deadlifts and the bench press. You should only do 1 or 2 bicep exercises per week!

Nutrition is more important than lifting for someone that wants to put on size. If you have a mobile phone download the app my fitness pal to ensure that you are consuming the surplus energy required to make gains.

Eat a lot of:
- unrefined carbs (Potato, Rice, Oats) -
- veggies
- meat, chicken, fish and eggs (aim for 3-5 serves per day).

Snack on quality nuts (almonds, macadamias, etc) and fruit. Have 11 protein drinks per week (1 per day plus one extra after each work out). Considering you are just starting I would advise against creatine, save it for 6-12 months down the track when you need a boost.

 

[saj_21]

Do 3 or 4 x 40-60 min weight sessions per week, preferably something like (Mon, Tue, Thur and Fri) OR (Mon, Tue, Fri and Sat) of weights, concentrating on good technique and building long term habits. It would be ideal for you if you can build good form for Squats, deadlifts and the bench press. You should only do 1 or 2 bicep exercises per week!

Nutrition is more important than lifting for someone that wants to put on size. If you have a mobile phone download the app my fitness pal to ensure that you are consuming the surplus energy required to make gains.

Eat a lot of:
- unrefined carbs (Potato, Rice, Oats) -
- veggies
- meat, chicken, fish and eggs (aim for 3-5 serves per day).

Snack on quality nuts (almonds, macadamias, etc) and fruit. Have 11 protein drinks per week (1 per day plus one extra after each work out). Considering you are just starting I would advise against creatine, save it for 6-12 months down the track when you need a boost.

All good advice, personally he would be better of eating more food than 2 x protein drinks a day (unless he is time poor or finding it hard to eat more food). Save protein drink for post work out. Or if he does want a second protein drink, look at a mass gainer, Bulk nutrients have a product called Muscle food 101 and its a lot more cost effective than protein powder.

 

[Mofra]

Or if he does want a second protein drink, look at a mass gainer, Bulk nutrients have a product called Muscle food 101 and its a lot more cost effective than protein powder.

I'd go the opposite way - avoid any brand product, especially anything promoted as a "mass gainer" as they generally add a shitload of carbs (bringing their cost down) but charge a similar price for it.

Bulk nutrients is probably the best of the lot, but as a newbie there wouldn't be much sense in spending extra $$$ on supplements when plain old unflavoured WPC combined with newbie gains will do the trick for the first few months.

 

[TurboBreuster]

All good advice, personally he would be better of eating more food than 2 x protein drinks a day (unless he is time poor or finding it hard to eat more food). Save protein drink for post work out. Or if he does want a second protein drink, look at a mass gainer, Bulk nutrients have a product called Muscle food 101 and its a lot more cost effective than protein powder.

I agree on eating more food as opposed to protein shakes, however if he's struggling to get the daily cals then an extra shake could be an option.

Personally I'd go the 5kg's of $95 Bulk Nutrients WPC natural unflavoured with healthy snacks (fruit, nuts, oats) over the Muscle food!

 

[chargers 09]

Just wondering on what people's ration to a BB deadlift to a RDL and Bulgarian Split Squat is. I.e. 100 kgs for 5 reps (BB Deadlift).

 

[chrstphrwnstn]

Just wondering on what people's ration to a BB deadlift to a RDL and Bulgarian Split Squat is. I.e. 100 kgs for 5 reps (BB Deadlift).

At 65kg bodyweight, I pulled 3x145kg conventional deadlift last week, and hover around 3 sets of 8-10x85kg for RDLs, both with straps. Steadily increasing weight over time.

 

[Cristiano Ronaldo]

Cheers for the advice lads, got a better understanding now

 

[Mofra]

This looks interesting - has anyone tried anything like this as a technique?

http://www.t-nation.com/training/best-way-to-lift-weights

 

[cptkirk]

This looks interesting - has anyone tried anything like this as a technique?

http://www.t-nation.com/training/best-way-to-lift-weights

as always "it depends'

i'd rather break them up in to separate blocks so a block off ecc then a block of iso...doing both at once sacrifices too load too much compared to doing each on their own

but then again if it's simply muscle you're after where load doesn't really matter but then do some basic strength stuff then do these after it

 

[tangolikelama]

For me the most effective training methods resulting in hypertrophy are as follows.

Supersetting - A1) + A2)

Tempo training - Mainly focusing on the eccentric phase of the lift.

Full body workouts - 2 different workouts (Mon (A) Tue (B) Wed/Thur (rest) blah blah)

3 Week training cycles. Week one - 12-15 reps, week two - 10-8, week three - 6-8 reps. Then move onto another program.

Once again this is what I have found most effective, partly because I enjoy it the most.