Weight Training: For Beginners - Critique my program/Q & A

[joxstrap]

Anyone care to comment on my routine? I put it together a little while ago after a 2 year lay off from the gym.

Stats:
186cm
83kg

I've been as high as 94kg when I was regularly going to the gym with a lower body fat percentage than I have now. I still think I have a good 4kg of fat to lose ideally. Nutritionally I'm pretty good, I still remember all the stuff I learned back in the day - I think back then I was eating roughly 4200 cals, and training 4 days a week.

My goals at the moment are to get my strength back, and long term my goals are more size base than anything else. To be in good athletic shape essentially.

My routine:

3 days a week, with a 4 day cycle eg:

M Day 1
W Day 2
F Day 3

M Day 4
W Day 1
F Day 2

M Day 3
and so on.

Day 1:
Squats 3 x 5, 1 x 10
SLDL 3 x 8-10
Pullups 20-40 reps - as many sets as it takes, add weight when I can do 3 sets of 12
BB Rows 4 x 6
BB Curls 2 x 8

Day 2:
DB Incline Bench 2 x 5, 2 x 8
Dips 3 x 8
DB OH Press 3 x 8
Side Laterals 2 x 10
Close Grip Bench 2 x 10

Day 3:
Deadlifts 3 x 5
Leg Press 3 x 8
Pull ups 20-40 reps (as above)
DB Rows 3 x 8
DB Curls 2 x 8

Day 4:
Bench Press 2 x 5, 2 x 8
Dips 3 x 8
Military Press 3 x 8
Side Laterals 2 x 10
Skulls 2 x 8

Advantages as I see them:

1) Focus on compound heavy lifts
2) Essentially working half the body twice a week, then same half once the next, which i find works for me
3) Reasonably short sessions

I'll probably change this up after 2-3 months. Thoughts?

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

change 1 pull up day to chin ups

replace a dip on 2 of the days

do a different side raise variation on the 2nd day

not the worst program i've seen by far, hit it hard

maybe need more volume if going for size though but play it by ear

 

[Cats fan 16]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

change 1 pull up day to chin ups

replace a dip on 2 of the days

do a different side raise variation on the 2nd day

not the worst program i've seen by far, hit it hard

maybe need more volume if going for size though but play it by ear

Thought you would have pulled him up on the lack of lower limb work...

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

deads - yes
squats - yes
single leg - yes (i'd like another in there though and on 2nd look there's 2 days without leg work so they could easily go straight in)

what you gettin at?

 

[joxstrap]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

change 1 pull up day to chin ups

replace a dip on 2 of the days

do a different side raise variation on the 2nd day

not the worst program i've seen by far, hit it hard

maybe need more volume if going for size though but play it by ear

Thanks cptkirk,

Funny you should mention those changes, initially I had chins and pull ups, and had a different chest exercise instead of dips. I'll change it back, per your recommendation.

After a couple of months of getting my strength back I'll probably move to a 4 day split with a bit more volume and aim for some size.


SLDL = Stiff legged dead lift for hamstrings, should I replace that with something, or add another exercise like lunges?

 

[kennedy94]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

Im wanting to start footy aswell this year in 2010.
I'm chinese/cambodian
I'm 15yrs turning 16 in July.
I'm 170cm and 87kg(excess fat).
I jump about 30cm and pretty slow.
I played Forward pocket and CHB for for school before in one match.
I am quite strong.
-------------------
How much should i weigh for footy?
Should i go on a diet?
What position would suit me?
How do i jump higher?
How do i run faster?
Could you reccomend a club in Western Sydney near Liverpool or Fairfield?

I really want to play footy this year, but not hoping to join the AFL just for a surburban
u/16s or something like that. Thanks

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

1 - doesn't matter what you weight, it's how hard you go in
2 - diet no. eat better hell yes
3 - deadlift, squat, lunge and chin up
4 - ditto
5 - no, i'm in melb

 

[hodgeisboss]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

at that height and weight i doubt he would be able to do many chinups if any, just hit the pushups every free moment you get pump out a set, that'll trim you down pretty quickly

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Re: Weight Training Program

Is there any feedback from the OP?

It would be good to hear how he is going, if he found the help useful and if he was able to stick to the routine?

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Re: Protein & Other Supplements

omg all these threads have gone to shit, ss has the entire forum really.

How about we change things up, restructure the whole thing.

We start a few more threads:

1. Focusing on muscle gains (we orchestrate a program using the input of the board members) and the best nutrition for this
2. Focusing on Strength (As Above) and the best nutrition for this
3. One for the best of both Worlds (Gaining strength while developing size)
4. And even one focusing on Training for football or other sports (both during and pre-season)

The reason threads are getting de-railed is because a lot of these passer byers don't know where to post their questions and thoughts. Appropriately naming threads will give people a lot more direction

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Protein & Other Supplements

not the dumbest thing i've heard

 

[daveymak]

Re: Protein & Other Supplements

good call pez. probably wont get a consensus on the first two but the discussion should be good. good post

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Re: Protein & Other Supplements

Well I'm not able to start any threads yet, however feel free to create them.

Something similar to what Cptkirk has already done with a football specific training guide. The more threads that we can specify the smoother they will run and the easy certain aspects of training and nutrition can be found.

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Att: Weight Training for beginners

Lets start helping out our fellow Bigfooty gym buddies, giving our beginners a one stop place to read up on all the information they need to start getting in the gym and working out and eating as effectively as possible. This will stop other threads getting hi-jacked and hopefully keep all debate in suitable threads.

To start with we'll make a program for a beginner (weight session and simple nutritional information) whose main goal is to build some size and muscle and working on their overall strength.

So where do we start?

How many days should a beginner be spending in a gym?
Main targeted muscles?
Nutrition - bro science double your weight worth of Protein, quadruple worth of Carbs?

Lets get some debate going without letting our ego's get in the way - Everyone's body is different so there is no one way to succeed. If this works well we can start other threads for the more experienced trainers and get into the real sophisticated nutrition for the very best results.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

Gentlemen

I am an old bugger and have just got back in the gym since October of last year after a "lay off" that lasted two years. Anyway I have a weird problem in that I can only squat about half of what I can deadlift. Any suggestions about bringing my squats up a bit?

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

I don't think you have to much to worry about CM. Everybody is different and everybody has certain strengths and weaknesses in the gym.

One question i would ask is when during your workout do you do squats? If you tend to do them after other draining exercises such as a deadlift, leg press, lunge etc it could come down to you being fatigued.

To add another couple of points be sure all the effort in your squats is coming from your hips and thighs its where all your strength and power is. And also be sure to wear flat shoes - shoes with air and gel etc tend to put you off balance so its advised to wear completely flat shoes or if you are allowed to, go bare foot.

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

generally:

deads and squats should be the same

bench, chin ups and front squat are next and should also be the same and i think hang cleans are a little bit behind them for memory

that being said it depends how much you've trained each lift too but 50% of your deads wt isn't enough for mine...

what sets/reps do you do for them?
how often do you do them?
when in your workout do you do them?
where do you "fail'when you do them?
have you been taught correctly?

age is no barrier

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Att: Weight Training for beginners

Training

If you've done absolutely no wt training whatsoever then bodyweight stuff where it's at for the most part...if you can't do 15 perfect push ups, inverted rows with feel elevated, split squats, 8 chin ups and a 2minute prone hold, then you're body and especially your core and stabiliser muscles, aren't really ready for wts

If you can do all of those then you only really need the basics when starting out so i'd suggest a full body routine where you have 2 workouts that you simply alternate so week 1 you'd 1 workout twice and the other once then vice versa the next week

week 1
mon - a
wed - b
fri - a

week 2
mon - b
wed - a
fri - b

exercise wise you only need the basic, free wt compound exercises

workout a
deadlifts 3 x 5
bench press 3 x 5
split squats 3 x 6
db row 3 x 6
single arm shoulder press 3 x 8
side ab hold 3 x 30secs

workout b
back squats 3 x 5
chin ups 3 x max - if you can get 10 - 15 then add wt and do 3 x 5
reverse lunge - 3 x 8
seated row - 3 x 8
face pull - 3 x 12
prone ab hold 3 x 1min

now you can either pair the exercises with the same sets/reps or go with straight sets, doesn't really matter and depends on the business of your gym

if you haven't done any of those exercises before then you'll need to be taught the correct technique, especially deads and squats

cardio

what and how much you do will depends on your goal/s...basically you want a hard and a moderate/easy session a week so maybe sprints for 1 session and then 10mins of intervals and 10 - 20mins of steady state the next session for 2/week

nutrition

there are 3 levels to work through:

1 - choose the right foods (lean solid proteins, fruits, veg, healthy fats)
2 - choose the right portions (small to moderate meals frequently throughout the day)
3 - choose the right timing (starchy carbs around workout time only etc)

once you get these 3 perfect then you can tinker with calorie counting and such but if your eating maccas 4 times a week then there's no point in counting how much shit you eat, it's pretty evident

that's my very quick rundown

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Re: Att: Weight Training for beginners

Nice Cptkirk that's what we are looking for. A very basic training program for a beginner.

So you would suggest something like that for a beginner to do for about 4-6 week period before they can start isolating muscles and increasing reps 10-12 mark (If bodybuilding is their main goal of course)

The main point i would want to add is to get the technique right and be sure to stay in the right weights range until you are comfortable to move up in weight whilst keeping the same, correct technique.

With Nutrition i remember when i first started a mate told me to just eat as many carbs and as much protein as i could all throughout the day. Without any research of my own i listened to him, i ate and ate and i put on 5kg's in a month (sadly only about 1kg of that was muscle) Safe to say after reading through every source i can find readily available i now find myself much more knowledgeable in the area then my 'bro science' mate.

In saying that though if you are one of those people who are joining a gym due to a very slender figure this is most likely because you aren't eating anywhere near enough food and in this case you will need to pay high attention to your nutrition.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

generally:

deads and squats should be the same

bench, chin ups and front squat are next and should also be the same and i think hang cleans are a little bit behind them for memory

that being said it depends how much you've trained each lift too but 50% of your deads wt isn't enough for mine...

what sets/reps do you do for them?
how often do you do them?
when in your workout do you do them?
where do you "fail'when you do them?
have you been taught correctly?

age is no barrier

Mate big muscles always first - having limited time I tend to do compound exercises and always do squats first. Even when I do squats before deadlifts still can lift more in the deadlifts. I only do squats once a week. I do SLDL once a week and plain old deadlifts once a week as well

I try to do a full squat and am doing a 5x5 routine - I must admit am a bit nervous about my knees and ankles which got a hammering when i played footy. I am shit once I get past what would be a "half squat" position.

Thanks for the help - my legs are like twigs at the moment and am doing a fair amount of running for cardio on the none gym days

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

From the sound of it you would be able to squat a lot more weight if you are able to build confidence in your body and in your ability to do a squat. Probably similar to a few people i know who have very little confidence in their ability to do deadlifts and find themselves lifting light (really light compared to what they would be capable of) weight in the fear of injury.

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Att: Weight Training for beginners

so you would suggest something like that for a beginner to do for about 4-6 week period before they can start isolating muscles and increasing reps 10-12 mark (If bodybuilding is their main goal of course)

there's no need to isolate anything...the wts you use to isolate a muscle are worthless for muscle growth for beginners

they'll also grow from low reps because it's a totally new stimulis for their bodies and technique breaks down with longer sets...it's best to keep reps low so technique is always perfect...if you want more volume then add more sets, not reps to keep the wt heavy-ish...obviously it needs to be lighter for 12 reps then vs 5 reps

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

Mate big muscles always first - having limited time I tend to do compound exercises and always do squats first. Even when I do squats before deadlifts still can lift more in the deadlifts. I only do squats once a week. I do SLDL once a week and plain old deadlifts once a week as well

I try to do a full squat and am doing a 5x5 routine - I must admit am a bit nervous about my knees and ankles which got a hammering when i played footy. I am shit once I get past what would be a "half squat" position.

Thanks for the help - my legs are like twigs at the moment and am doing a fair amount of running for cardio on the none gym days

is there any movement restriction with your ankles/knees? if not then squats will be great for them to build up your muscles to take stress of the joint/s

you can always go for lunges that will be just as hard but the load will be halved of that of a squat

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

Mate big muscles always first - having limited time I tend to do compound exercises and always do squats first. Even when I do squats before deadlifts still can lift more in the deadlifts. I only do squats once a week. I do SLDL once a week and plain old deadlifts once a week as well

I try to do a full squat and am doing a 5x5 routine - I must admit am a bit nervous about my knees and ankles which got a hammering when i played footy. I am shit once I get past what would be a "half squat" position.

Thanks for the help - my legs are like twigs at the moment and am doing a fair amount of running for cardio on the none gym days

is there any movement restriction with your ankles/knees? if not then squats will be great for them to build up your muscles to take stress of the joint/s

you can always go for lunges that will be just as hard but the load will be halved of that of a squat

 

[Contra Mundum]

Re: Optimal Exercises and Optimal Techniques for Muscle Gains

is there any movement restriction with your ankles/knees? if not then squats will be great for them to build up your muscles to take stress of the joint/s

you can always go for lunges that will be just as hard but the load will be halved of that of a squat

Lunges are a good idea. Thanks for your help. I thought I might do some jump squats with a light weight to get the "fear" monkey off my squat back - if you know what I mean!

I need to do more stretches to - I am creeky as all buggery