Weight Training: For Beginners - Critique my program/Q & A

[swiftdog]

Re: Weight Training Program

If you're going to use a two-way split plus a full-body day (aka a hybrid split) there are better ways to split up the program. Both of the following are better splits than the one you're doing:
1. Upper/Lower split
2. Chest/Shoulder/Tri's and Back/Bi's/Legs

As other's have mentioned more weights or a gym will be needed

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

best splits for beginners is a full body

other then that i don't really see a need for anything other then an upper/lower split unless actually bodybuilding for competition and even then i'd like to hear a good reason for needing more then 4 wt sessions a week

 

[blues4flag]

Re: Weight Training Program

I was doing full body last year at gym:

Dips
Superset: DB bench press

Pull ups
Superset: Lat pulldowns

Squats
Superset: Lunges

Bicep curls
Tricep pulldowns

Ab work


Would be in the gym for upwards of an hour and it'd leave me absolutely drained. 30-60 seconds rest meant it was a killer. Any longer though and I'd be in the gym all day. Not a fan.

 

[Lakey91]

Re: Weight Training Program

cptkirk - you seem to know your stuff.

I have bit the bullet and joined the gym and am loving it, but people in here continue to talk about doing "splits" instead of whole body workouts? Can you (and others?) tell me the difference and give me some examples of some routines?

When Ive been to the gym over last few weeks (6-7 times) Ive done (sorry if names are wrong!):

Incline bench
Bench (either free weights, on a machine or with a bar - sometimes I do two of these)
Decline bench
tricep pull down
bicep (on machine sometimes)
Assisted dips/chin ups
leg extensions
Peck Deck
Crunches/Sit ups on a declining bench
Lat pulll

Then other times there a couple of leg work machines that I use but have no idea what they are called.

When I go, I do 10-15 exercises, and Id like to keep it at that many. I dont like going there just to do 5-6 exercises - seems a waste?

Im pretty inexperienced, but maybe you could just give a framework that is good to follow for a split? At a normal gym?

Thanks.

 

[mcuzzy]

Re: Weight Training Program

Is that The man whose arms exploded? I haven't seen it, but I know the guy is a complete knob.

Having said that, one of his rants on youtube is infamous for setting a few things straight. He goes on to detail how people get too caught up in following others' programs and diets, particular ones they idolise (such as BBers or athletes), and that the smartest trainers figure out exactly what works for them.

Simple stuff, but 90% of people I've spoken to about lifting weights could use with watching it.

That's the guy!

As for following other peoples programs, I saw lots of people doing shoulder press.

I can't hack more than 1 set of shoulder press on my shoulders day or my dumbell chest press will struggle on the monday.

Seems like you are not doing much for your back or glutes. Glutes are the biggest muscle mass in the body, working them releases the most growth hormone.

Some dead lifts, sqauts. lunges etc might be worth looking at.

Agree with this. Back is a big workout, definately need it.
I've really neglected my legs up until recently, makes a big difference.

I work out with a body builder/power lifter who is also a full time personal trainer. He openly laughs at full body workouts. I have been training with him for 3 years and in that time I have passed most guys in the gym who use full body work-outs.

If you want to get big you have to use split programs, if you want to get strong and lean, full body work outs. Lift, Rest, Eat. The secret to getting big.

Good post, you must make big leaps in progress by training with a body building/ PT, presuming you mean he laughs at muscle gainers trying to gain by using full body workouts or something though? Full body workouts DO suit some people though, as you said for lean muscles.

May I ask what your split is?

 

[blues4flag]

Re: Weight Training Program

http://exrx.net/WeightTraining/Instructions.html
http://exrx.net/Lists/WorkoutMenu.html

15 exercises in overkill. If you're going for a full body workout, I wouldn't do more than 10 (if even). There's no way you'll be able to complete a workout at high intensity doing 15 exercises.

Short and intense works much better than longer workouts at lower intensity. Try not to stay much longer than an hour in the gym.

You're program isn't at all balanced. You've got 5 chest exercises there - you really shouldn't be doing more than 2 or 3 with a full body workout. Maybe bench press and dips as your primary two exercises and alternate through a third if you're so inclined (flys, incline/decline).

Add in squats as your primary lower body exercise. Lunges are also great. Don't waste your time on machines which only target specific muscles, particularly on a full body workout.

With the assisted chin ups/dips, try and do some unassisted, even if you only do one or two. Then move on to the machine for your following sets. Soon enough you'll be able to do it solely unassisted.

Lat pulls aren't really needed as it's targeting the same muscles as the chin ups. I'd replace it with a rowing exercise such as bent over rows.

 

[Lakey91]

Re: Weight Training Program

I hadnt counted, but I just did, and I did 10 exercises yesterday (i wasnt quite sure) and it seemed a pretty normal session. Mainly did 3 sets, sometimes 4, and it took me just over an hour.

Wouldnt call it a "program" either - I just basically turn up and do most of the stuff I know how to do (im still inexperienced - I go with a mate though).

Thanks for the info - Ill try a bit of a different workout tomorrow.

 

[wirra44]

Re: Weight Training Program

cheers for the advice guys

That is a fitness work out. If you want to get appreciably bigger you are going to have to change that routine and use heavier weights.

can you please give me some advice on a new routine what to take out and what not to take out.

Another question guys should i be working out 5 times a week or is it better to do more/less days??

 

[Schism]

Re: Weight Training Program

cptkirk - you seem to know your stuff.

I have bit the bullet and joined the gym and am loving it, but people in here continue to talk about doing "splits" instead of whole body workouts? Can you (and others?) tell me the difference and give me some examples of some routines?

When Ive been to the gym over last few weeks (6-7 times) Ive done (sorry if names are wrong!):

Incline bench
Bench (either free weights, on a machine or with a bar - sometimes I do two of these)
Decline bench
tricep pull down
bicep (on machine sometimes)
Assisted dips/chin ups
leg extensions
Peck Deck
Crunches/Sit ups on a declining bench
Lat pulll

Then other times there a couple of leg work machines that I use but have no idea what they are called.

When I go, I do 10-15 exercises, and Id like to keep it at that many. I dont like going there just to do 5-6 exercises - seems a waste?

Im pretty inexperienced, but maybe you could just give a framework that is good to follow for a split? At a normal gym?

Thanks.

A split routine is where you train only 1 or 2 bodyparts on a given day,so your workout is 'split' into 4 or 5 sessions.A simple example:

Mon - chest & biceps
Tue - shoulders
Wed - rest day
Thurs - Back & Forearms
Fri - Triceps (or triceps & legs)
Sat - rest day
Sunday - Legs (if not done on fri)

edit:but splits need to be mixed up every few weeks.After a while you might start doing biceps and triceps on the same day,supersetting chest and back on the same day,etc.There are literally hundreds of variations,eventually you settle into a routine that feels right,and just vary it slightly at regular intervals.

 

[Wally Carter]

Re: Weight Training Program

cheers for the advice guys



can you please give me some advice on a new routine what to take out and what not to take out.

Another question guys should i be working out 5 times a week or is it better to do more/less days??

I guess you want to put on size.


I'm not going to bother explaining anything to a novice over the internet. The truth is you really need to go to a good gym and be taught proper technique. More weight, less reps, less exercises, favor compound movements, more food, more rest (3 day workouts).

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

I was doing full body last year at gym:

Dips
Superset: DB bench press

Pull ups
Superset: Lat pulldowns

Squats
Superset: Lunges

Bicep curls
Tricep pulldowns

Ab work


Would be in the gym for upwards of an hour and it'd leave me absolutely drained. 30-60 seconds rest meant it was a killer. Any longer though and I'd be in the gym all day. Not a fan.

the point of full body workouts is to be efficient...doing 2 chest exercises, 2 back exercises that do the same thing and arm work is not being efficient

I have bit the bullet and joined the gym and am loving it, but people in here continue to talk about doing "splits" instead of whole body workouts? Can you (and others?) tell me the difference and give me some examples of some routines?

there's probably 3 decent splits that you can do:

1 - full body (3/week or simply alternate every second day so 7 workouts every 2 weeks)
2 - lower/upper body splits (2 sessions for each a week = 4 each week)
3 - lower/upper/full body splits (this is what i do...mon - fb, wed - upper, thu - lower/arms, sat - fb...i also do other stuff on 2 other days if i can fit it in)

muscle splits don't really make any sense to me and mostly ends up in those who do them using ordinary exercises to "fill in" their day and train the muscle "from every angle"

full body is great for beginners and those coming from a lay off...going straight into a 4 day split or a muscle split is the equivalent of going from the couch to a marathon...what if you don't get results from the 4 - 5 days of training what do you do? add a 6th day? you gotta leave room to progress

like taking the one mentioned above:

Mon - chest & biceps
Tue - shoulders
Wed - rest day
Thurs - Back & Forearms
Fri - Triceps (or triceps & legs)
Sat - rest day
Sunday - Legs (if not done on fri)

mosat will say you need recopvery but shoulders get worked heavily on mon and tue, so no recovery there and the shoulder workout will suffer because of it...arms are worked directly and indirectly 4 times in the one week but legs once?? it doesn't make sense to me to break up the body when it works as a unit

just my opinion and will plenty will disagree

 

[AG]

Re: Weight Training Program

I'd recommend people do more squats/deadlifts. Too many workouts focused on upper body.

 

[blues4flag]

Re: Weight Training Program

the point of full body workouts is to be efficient...doing 2 chest exercises, 2 back exercises that do the same thing and arm work is not being efficient

I agree...though it's what generally happens when you ask a gym instructor to help you come up with a program, unfortunately. This time round I did a lot more reading and am much more comfortable with my program. All I used my 'compulsory' sessions for was to get the PT to show me some of through the exercises I hadn't done before...not that he seemed to have much of an idea.

Could you post your workout up? Be interested to see what you do for lower body. At the moment I'm using a 2 day split, three days a week, so it's:
Week 1: Mon-A, Wed-B, Fri-A
Week 2: Mon-B, Wed-A, Fri-B

So in a 2 week period I do deadlifts thrice (A) and squats, calf raises, hamstring curls thrice (B).

Don't really feel too sore in my legs, especially hamstrings, though I'm intentionally progressing slowly in the deadlifts/squats to ensure I get my technique right without really struggling with the weight (squat has gone from ~40kg to 70 in about 5 weeks and deadlifts from 30kg to 60).

Don't think we have a glute ham raise thing at the gym so I'm thinking of getting rid of the hamstring curls and adding lunges or weighted step ups to really hit the hammys/glutes on my B workout.

Happy with the upper body/core side where I do:
A: chin ups, DB bent row, lateral raise, BB bicep curls and abs (plank, Captain's Chair, decline sit ups)
B: bench press, incline bench press, military press and tricep pulldowns or tricep dips depending what I feel like

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

well as stated at the moment i'm doing this split:

mon - upper body
tue - lower
thu - full body
sat - full body

i'm doing a muscle building thing at the moment for a change up (30sec sets increasing 5secs each week with the same wt for all 4 weeks) which i adapted from dave tates greatest gains article so it has more "bodybuilding" stuff then i'd usually do to make it "fit"

mon - upper body

pull up paird with military
low incline db press / chest supported row
db decline press / cable lateral raise

tue - lower body/arms

do some low speed and quickness stuff at the start

rdl / bodyweight tricep extension
front squat / reverse curl

thu - full body

speed and quickness stuff

bulgarian split squat / single arm shoulder press
chin uo / gymnastic ring push up

sat - full body

speed and quickness

cable press / seated row
hip thrust / scarecrows
cable curl / close grip medicine ball push up with feet elevated

after this i'll go back to the regular:

mon - full body (speed and quickness, lower speed work, single leg/chest, row/core, can add arm work if wanted)
wed - lower (spedd and quickness, max effort, single leg, posterior chain/core)
thu - upper (max effort becnh/pull up, shoulder press/row, core.prehab)
sat - full body (speed and quickness, lower heavy/push up, row/songle leg, core)

changes and there most likely but that's th for the most part

 

[Oberfuhrer Abetz]

Re: Weight Training Program

All beginners should use whole body routines, when you are just starting out you haven't developed efficiency/coordination in movement or enough strength to stress your body to a level requiring 4-7 days recovery. If you choose to do a split you are essentially wasting the chance to improve 3x a week and instead improve only once or twice.

It's idiotic.

 

[Kong]

Re: Weight Training Program

Just on personal trainers having no clue..

Recently I was watching one of the PTs at my gym show a teenage guy his program, and how to do each exercise.

It was obviously a full body program, as it consisted of some pulldowns, curls and shoulder exercises from memory. The funny thing was, the shoulder exercise he chose to incorporate into this poor kid's workout was lateral cable raises. After showing him the exercise, the kid saw somebody in the gym doing a seated dumbbell press, and asked "what's that do?"

The PT responded "oh that does exactly the same thing as what I showed you, but this is better. Just stick with these, those (presses) aren't great for strength or muscle." What, as opposed to this isolation exercise that nobody apart from bodybuilders really needs to do? :|

That type of comment isn't unusual from the trainers, either. Not just at my gym, but everywhere.

 

[J_Moore]

Re: Weight Training Program

I'd recommend people do more squats/deadlifts. Too many workouts focused on upper body.

How are lower body workouts going to help me fill out my Ed Hardy tee?

 

[Oberfuhrer Abetz]

Re: Weight Training Program

How are lower body workouts going to help me fill out my Ed Hardy tee?

 

[AG]

Re: Weight Training Program

How are lower body workouts going to help me fill out my Ed Hardy tee?

Haha, good point.

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

what's gonna make you bigger?

your 50kg bench press performed half way or your 100kg deadlift?

hmmm i wonder

 

[mcuzzy]

Re: Weight Training Program

How are lower body workouts going to help me fill out my Ed Hardy tee?

saw alot of guys with that attitude today, doing bench press with horrible form for 10 sets then walking around with their arms out as if their lats are too big to put their arms by their side. then do barbell curls and dumbell curls for half an hour, flex in the mirror, talk to mates heaps, talk on the phone bragging for 20 minutes then leave.

Just on personal trainers having no clue..

Recently I was watching one of the PTs at my gym show a teenage guy his program, and how to do each exercise.

It was obviously a full body program, as it consisted of some pulldowns, curls and shoulder exercises from memory. The funny thing was, the shoulder exercise he chose to incorporate into this poor kid's workout was lateral cable raises. After showing him the exercise, the kid saw somebody in the gym doing a seated dumbbell press, and asked "what's that do?"

The PT responded "oh that does exactly the same thing as what I showed you, but this is better. Just stick with these, those (presses) aren't great for strength or muscle." What, as opposed to this isolation exercise that nobody apart from bodybuilders really needs to do? :|

That type of comment isn't unusual from the trainers, either. Not just at my gym, but everywhere.

Ok Whomb, need a question answered. I took shoulder press out of my shoulder workout. im doing side lateral raises with cables and dumbells, then rear delt laterals, db front raises.
I get a good result but is shoulder press an exercise i should definately keep?
It made my bench press suffer and the chest workout rips my delts to peices anyway.
The only thing reassurance i currently have is jay cutlers 2007 winning workout that only has raises and barbell pullups.

should i go back to shoulder press and add that in?

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

look at the wt you use for side raises...

now look at the wt you use for shoulder presses

which will make you bigger??

you can easily do heavy shoulder presses and heavy benches in the same cycle, just structure it right

you don't have to do heavy benches every time you train you know

and please don't try anything jay cutler does

 

[mcuzzy]

Re: Weight Training Program

look at the wt you use for side raises...

now look at the wt you use for shoulder presses

which will make you bigger??

you can easily do heavy shoulder presses and heavy benches in the same cycle, just structure it right

you don't have to do heavy benches every time you train you know

and please don't try anything jay cutler does

Can agree with some of that. But there must be a reason bodybuilders usually only do one set of shoulder press?

Bolded: Okay Deal. *quits bodybuilding*

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training Program

i'm sure they don't

what they put in magazines isn't what they really do and even if it is, they train instictively so they might only so it once and that's it

do you think he built them without shoulder presses?

 

[Kong]

Re: Weight Training Program

Ok Whomb, need a question answered. I took shoulder press out of my shoulder workout. im doing side lateral raises with cables and dumbells, then rear delt laterals, db front raises.
I get a good result but is shoulder press an exercise i should definately keep?

I would, yes.

As it's a compound exercise, it recruits more muscle fibres in the overall output.

Basically you're doing three isolation exercises, which are good as supplementary exercises, but it's far more effective to have some sort of shoulder press with them.

It made my bench press suffer and the chest workout rips my delts to peices anyway.

Just on this, if you're training for mass/vanity, which I suspect you are, I'd begin ensuring that on your chest day, you're working/fatiguing/isolating the chest as much as possible, and the shoulders as little as possible. It's not easy to explain this, even in person, but it just comes with experience; your bench numbers can and will suffer, but if you focus on this (and for each workout, for the matter), your gains in muscle will be far greater.

The only thing reassurance i currently have is jay cutlers 2007 winning workout that only has raises and barbell pullups.

As stated, the magazine workouts aren't completely accurate. I've seen (and own) four of Cutler's workout videos, and the only difference in his shoulder workouts from most is that he uses dumbbell laterals as a pre-exhaustive method before moving onto some form of shoulder press.

His workout is structured similarly to mine, but with even more exercises (he is a big believer in high-volume).