"Welcome To Country" Speeches .......... Gone Too Far Now ??

[eastfreo75]

It was a Papal decree. Christianity had everything to do with it.

Like anything it's a lot of factors.

Papal degree was to convert everybody and to expand the Roman Catholic Church by force.

Sorry, that doesn't see non christians as subhuman but social Darwinism does that.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

All the racist middle-aged white guys are out in full force in this thread.

 

[Muddiemoose]

It is Cook the Individual. He lied to a shot Indigenous people around the world.

I’m sure some would hold that belief

But the vast majority would look at Cook in context of the time he lived and while acknowledging his flaws in some actions we can still also celebrate his legacy as a navigator and explorer

 

[demondavey]

All the racist middle-aged white guys are out in full force in this thread.

And they’re excuses are still the same

 

[Freshwater]

Killing all those aboriginals and displacing them was definitely not a bad thing

I never said atrocities never happened. But we all are the beneficiaries of British settlement which on the whole is overwhelmingly a good thing. English Common Law, Democracy, the Constitutional freedoms are humanities best hope… still. If it wasn’t, you would return to your ancestral homeland, which you don’t.
And to think it was all rainbows and unicorns here before Cook (BC) is a fallacy.

 

[Gough]

I never said atrocities never happened. But we all are the beneficiaries of British settlement which on the whole is overwhelmingly a good thing. English Common Law, Democracy, the Constitutional freedoms are humanities best hope… still. If it wasn’t, you would return to your ancestral homeland, which you don’t.
And to think it was all rainbows and unicorns here before Cook (BC) is a fallacy.

But it was all achieved with a significant level of brutality towards Aboriginal Australians which is still not recognised by a lot of us despite the fact that all of us materially benefit from the dispossession every day.

 

[Bostonian]

And they’re excuses are still the same

Humans were hard wired in such a way that everything that has unfolded throughout history over the planet was inevitable.

Agree or disagree?

 

[schneebly111]

If you were offended by the welcome to country, that sucks. Don't project your offendedness, maybe work to see where that feeling comes from.

How many of the tens of thousands of people who physically attend an AFL finals match who listen to the Welcome given prior to every final are “offended” or “outraged” like parts of the media say they are? Or is it all just keyboard warriors?

Most of us will attend games I assume? After the WTC is given, or during, are people ignoring it, talking over it or listening? After it’s done are there quiet comments of “I’m glad that rubbish is over” or the like given, or are people respectful of the ceremony?

Because apparently old mates Giants vs Lions WTF was reported in the media to have gotten a lot of cheers and laughs when he made the Captain Cook joke. Last year when Sam Newman told everyone to boo the WTC at a finals match apparently the cheers were much louder.

So despite how all the keyboard warriors say the “silent majority” have had a “gutful” of being welcomed to their own country, the tangible feedback from the actual arena doesn’t agree.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

I’m sure some would hold that belief

But the vast majority would look at Cook in context of the time he lived and while acknowledging his flaws in some actions we can still also celebrate his legacy as a navigator and explorer

It is not a belief , it is fact based on verified accounts of what happened.
He didn't discover anything, the lands were already discovered.
All he did was spread disease, kill and forcibly steal land.
If you want to celebrate his legacy that's up to you.

 

[eastfreo75]

All the racist middle-aged white guys are out in full force in this thread.

Image using racism and ageism as an argument.

 

[demondavey]

Humans were hard wired in such a way that everything that has unfolded throughout history over the planet was inevitable.

Agree or disagree?

Couldn’t agree less…. You’re making excuses for the English wiping out people because you’ve been put out by an Aboriginal man telling you WTC wasn’t invented for you.

Stop bullshitting everyone.

 

[Muddiemoose]

It is not a belief , it is fact based on verified accounts of what happened.
He didn't discover anything, the lands were already discovered.
All he did was spread disease, kill and forcibly steal land.
If you want to celebrate his legacy that's up to you.

You seem overly emotional about the subject and are essentially displaying the same kind of attitude that people who deny any wrongdoing
Refusing to acknowledge the greater context and looking at history as a complete picture

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Image using racism and ageism as an argument.

Ok Sammy Newman, get your booing boots on and you show these uppity black people who's boss.
It's your right because you pay taxes.

 

[schneebly111]

I think Sport should be free of politics first of all.

Second i think welcome to country doesnt do anything for uniting infact the opposite.

I also assume you’ll be in favour of the AFL getting rid of that thing where the crowd are forced to stand in silence to worship a bunch of government employees carrying out government policy in late April, which is 100% political too?

 

[eastfreo75]

Ok Sammy Newman, get your booing boots on and you show these uppity black people who's boss.
It's your right because you pay taxes.

Now you are using classism, keep going. You have forgotten two isms to use.

 

[demondavey]

I never said atrocities never happened. But we all are the beneficiaries of British settlement which on the whole is overwhelmingly a good thing. English Common Law, Democracy, the Constitutional freedoms are humanities best hope… still. If it wasn’t, you would return to your ancestral homeland, which you don’t.
And to think it was all rainbows and unicorns here before Cook (BC) is a fallacy.

We benefit from it, however we still can’t quite get our heads around it to acknowledge it. Or the racists can’t. Was it that offensive what was said in that WTC speech? Are you that offended by it? Again, looking for excuses to derail WTC by thinking it’s ‘divisive’.

It’s really pathetic….

 

[demondavey]

I think Sport should be free of politics first of all.

Second i think welcome to country doesnt do anything for uniting infact the opposite.

If you’re a racist it wouldn’t…

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

You seem overly emotional about the subject and are essentially displaying the same kind of attitude that people who deny any wrongdoing
Refusing to acknowledge the greater context and looking at history as a complete picture

Not emotional just fact based . You are downplaying facts with a cover all term of 'historical context'.
The context being that it was just the done thing back in the day.

 

[demondavey]

You seem overly emotional about the subject and are essentially displaying the same kind of attitude that people who deny any wrongdoing
Refusing to acknowledge the greater context and looking at history as a complete picture

Fill us in on the greater context that Aboriginal people are still dealing with….

 

[Muddiemoose]

Not emotional just fact based . You are downplaying facts with a cover all term of 'historical context'.
The context being that it was just the done thing back in the day.

I’m not downplaying anything
I’m acknowledging both sides of the coin

As we should with all historical figures

Should we call the Ancient Greek philosophers horrible people because they practiced pederasty or look at it through the context of what was accepted at the time?

 

[Bostonian]

It is not a belief , it is fact based on verified accounts of what happened.
He didn't discover anything, the lands were already discovered.
All he did was spread disease, kill and forcibly steal land.
If you want to celebrate his legacy that's up to you.

The Vikings discovered Ireland on their sea journeys and then started invading and pillaging Ireland.

See how the word discovered can be used in different context?

Nobody is out there crying that the Vikings actually discovered Ireland.

Because people understand the context of the word.

Cooks discovery has nothing to do with people already being there.

It's about the wider world becoming aware of something.

 

[garlic munchers]

I'll admit it does get terribly overused, especially when white upper managers do it in every Teams/Zoom meeting but there seems to be an abundance of people who think they're being 'welcomed' to Australia and cry "BuT i WaS BOrN HerE!!!!" without having any understanding of what the actual purpose of it is.

So, Brendan Kerin was entirely correct when he said it "wasn't for white people", because it's been around far longer than that.

You want to try working with some of the Northern Indigenous corporations that have secured mining royalties for mining or miscellaneous access such as railway lines (as I have) ..... and observe what happens if you are a Noongar man who moves into the area and requests financial assistance from the charitable funds trustees.

Certainly no "Welcome to Country" extended here, even if the access agreement includes express provisions that fees paid are to benefit all Indigenous peoples in an area (note this would be a very common inclusion in agreements with the bigger miners, but it pretty much gets negotiated out of the draft very early on).

Welcome to Country just perpetuates this fantasy that Australia pre-colonialism was a land inhabited by happy little tele tubbies that lived with with the land (excessive pyromaniac activities aside).

The reality is they could be just as brutal as all other human beings seeking to survive in a harsh pre modern world, exploited the land as much as they could with their technology of the day and would have had their fair share of good people and bad people, as every other society has. Should any community, civilisation that practiced this be damned today by those actions?

Interesting that a fair few want to judge Cook by the standards of today, so should all indigenous cultures be judged on how they treated women of the day. Should any sex back then with a person under 16 be termed child rape and forced marriage a denial of human rights and effectibly rape (as should early European communities)?

Seems we have a propensity to only want to go down certain rabbit holes, particularly one that have the promise of a pot of gold at the bottom.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Fill us in on the greater context that Aboriginal people are still dealing with….

That colonisation led to the atrocities and attempted genocide of their people and way of life, but modern peoples can acknowledge that while cook played a part he is not inherently a bad person and also look back on his legacy as a captain, navigator and explorer

 

[Bostonian]

It means he shot dead many Indigenous people, pretended he was a God , treated the women like prostitutes and he and hid crew spread Syphlis knowing they had it and infected people with tuburcoiosis knowing they had it
He treated Indigenous people like they were animals.
If anyone got aggressive, he would blow their brains out.
This guy was a real murdering racist prick.

So say that then.

There's an irony in you having an avatar of the flag of a people who follow someone who was a massive coloniser and far worse person than Cook.

Do you go in on that guy as hard as Cook?

 

[bzparkes]

You want to try working with some of the Northern Indigenous corporations that have secured mining royalties for mining or miscellaneous access such as railway lines (as I have) ..... and observe what happens if you are a Noongar man who moves into the area and requests financial assistance from the charitable funds trustees.

Certainly no "Welcome to Country" extended here, even if the access agreement includes express provisions that fees paid are to benefit all Indigenous peoples in an area (note this would be a very common inclusion in agreements with the bigger miners, but it pretty much gets negotiated out of the draft very early on).

Welcome to Country just perpetuates this fantasy that Australia pre-colonialism was a land inhabited by happy little tele tubbies that lived with with the land (excessive pyromaniac activities aside).

The reality is they could be just as brutal as all other human beings seeking to survive in a harsh pre modern world, exploited the land as much as they could with their technology of the day and would have had their fair share of good people and bad people, as every other society has.

Interesting that a fair few want to judge Cook by the standards of today, so should all indigenous cultures be judged on how they treated women of the day. Should any sex back then with a person under 16 be termed child rape, forced marriage an exercise of rape (as should early European communities)?

Seems we have a propensity to only want to go down certain rabbit holes, particularly one that have the promise of a pot of gold at the bottom.

Oh I agree, I just find it funny when the "i WaS BOrN HeRE!!" hysterical crowd fire up.