What is Acceptable?

[pebblestone]

I've always felt that kicking twice as many goals as behinds is a good (difficult) target. 66% would be a good result IMO, and one not often achieved.

 

[RunningBounce]

I kind of disagree - I reckon 55% is too low - especially for a full forward. I may seem harsh but 55% in my opinion is not an acceptable minimum. Surely 60% onwards is acceptable? The fact that Cloke is at 54%........it needs to be better.

I have definitely felt the same way at times.

While Richo was playing as our FF, I found it really REALLY hard to watch him. He lost us games when he won the footy through massive, team-lifting efforts only to shank the shot at goal. You could see every Tiger slump when it happened, and it often got the opposition rolling.

You could say the same about Franklin, especially in a few of those recent classics against Geelong where he shanked a few, and they nailed a few tough shots.

These days, I tolerate some bad goal kicking in players like Franklin and Richo (and maybe Nick Riewoldt), but I wanna see them played up the ground more.

What Cloke gives the Magpies to excuse his kicking, I'm not sure. He wins them a few from his great contested marking (eg against us, Round 4), but I reckon he loses them more than he wins them. My Old Man is a Pies supporter and reckons Travis is a spud. I wouldn't go that far, but his not in the same class as Richo.

 

[theflea]

Jeez, I know he has a lot of shots under pressure, but I wouldn't mind seeing Sheds improving this in 2014

Yeah definitely needs to be better. He is also a small I could see be a 50 goal FT fwd.

 

[TheProwler]

At the end of the day you can have a high percentage "stat" if you like but it means stuff all if you can't do it when it matters. Take the great Richo, you would close your eyes when he is inside 30 especially if straight in front but outside 40m on the boundary ride it home. % accuracy doesn't indicate the pressure or relative expectation to nail it.

Sorry not a lover of stats............

 

[fumbler]

That percentage for Aaron Edwards just proves why we went after him. 7 shot at goal out of ten are 6 pointers.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Goal kicking accuracy is definitely something we should be trying to improve across the board. Looking over the results here are a number of games where we kicked very poorly, it's pretty surprising the number of games you could say we kicked poorly (mind you, I could be being a bit harsh here - I normally operate on the idea that an accurate side should be kicking more goals than behinds while a very accurate side kicks a lot more goals than behinds).

The bad:

• Round 1 - kicked 14.22 (lucky we just won in the end).
• Round 2 - 14.15 (win vs the Saints, more behinds than goals).
• Round 3 - 20.15 (big win over the dogs but really should have been more).
• Round 4 - 11.13 (loss vs the pies, any game where behinds are more than goals is a bad game IMO).
• Round 6 - 13.9 (vs Geelong, not bad but to push the best teams, we need to take our chances better).
• Round 8 - 15.16 (vs Melbourne - Melbourne stayed within striking distance up until the last quarter. We should have smashed them).
• Round 9 - 9.8 (vs Bummers - some say our worst game for the year).
• Round 12 - 16.14 (vs Crows - maybe a bit excusable due to the wet weather that day).
• Round 13 - 17.19 (vs Dogs again, another big win that should have been bigger still).
• Round 14 - 17.17 (vs Saints, big win but poor kicking accuracy again).
• Round 15 - 8.18 (vs North, big loss, not surprising with how poor we played/kicked that day).
• Round 16 - 6.17 (vs GC, broke the hoodoo but gave them every chance to make it 3-0 against us. Windy/slippery conditions for sure).
• Round 17 - 12.12 (vs Freo. We were in control all day but could have given ourselves a bit more breathing room with some better converting).
• Round 18 - 9.9 (up in Sydney vs the Swans, thoroughly beaten. Kicking a bit better may have helped keep us in the contest a bit longer but our matchups were wrong on the day).
• Round 20 - 14.13 vs the Lions, not bad but should have been closer to 17.10 IMO.
• Round 21 - 14.12 vs the scum. Lost by 10 points, the blues kicked 16.10 - same number of scoring chances but they converted better.
• Round 23 - 15.14, not great either, should have smashed the cheaters by a big margin.

The good (surprisingly all were great wins for the team last year):

• Round 7 - vs Port, we kicked 18.6 over in SA.
• Round 10 - vs WCE, 16.7 in WA.
• Round 19 - vs the Hawks, 16.11 even more impressive given the wet conditions late in the game.
• Round 22 - 21.13 vs GWS. Biggest win for the year, valuable percentage.

At the end of the day, goal kicking is just as important as getting a win. If we want to push into the top 4, we need to start boosting our percentage and that will (in part) only happen by kicking bigger scores (as well as tightening our defence - which improved out of sight last year). Given the number of games we kicked more behinds than goals, it should be one of the biggest areas the boys should be addressing in preseason IMO.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Goal kicking accuracy is definitely something we should be trying to improve across the board. Looking over the results here are a number of games where we kicked very poorly, it's pretty surprising the number of games you could say we kicked poorly (mind you, I could be being a bit harsh here - I normally operate on the idea that an accurate side should be kicking more goals than behinds while a very accurate side kicks a lot more goals than behinds).

The bad:

• Round 1 - kicked 14.22 (lucky we just won in the end).
• Round 2 - 14.15 (win vs the Saints, more behinds than goals).
• Round 3 - 20.15 (big win over the dogs but really should have been more).
• Round 4 - 11.13 (loss vs the pies, any game where behinds are more than goals is a bad game IMO).
• Round 6 - 13.9 (vs Geelong, not bad but to push the best teams, we need to take our chances better).
• Round 8 - 15.16 (vs Melbourne - Melbourne stayed within striking distance up until the last quarter. We should have smashed them).
• Round 9 - 9.8 (vs Bummers - some say our worst game for the year).
• Round 12 - 16.14 (vs Crows - maybe a bit excusable due to the wet weather that day).
• Round 13 - 17.19 (vs Dogs again, another big win that should have been bigger still).
• Round 14 - 17.17 (vs Saints, big win but poor kicking accuracy again).
• Round 15 - 8.18 (vs North, big loss, not surprising with how poor we played/kicked that day).
• Round 16 - 6.17 (vs GC, broke the hoodoo but gave them every chance to make it 3-0 against us. Windy/slippery conditions for sure).
• Round 17 - 12.12 (vs Freo. We were in control all day but could have given ourselves a bit more breathing room with some better converting).
• Round 18 - 9.9 (up in Sydney vs the Swans, thoroughly beaten. Kicking a bit better may have helped keep us in the contest a bit longer but our matchups were wrong on the day).
• Round 20 - 14.13 vs the Lions, not bad but should have been closer to 17.10 IMO.
• Round 21 - 14.12 vs the scum. Lost by 10 points, the blues kicked 16.10 - same number of scoring chances but they converted better.
• Round 23 - 15.14, not great either, should have smashed the cheaters by a big margin.

The good (surprisingly all were great wins for the team last year):

• Round 7 - vs Port, we kicked 18.6 over in SA.
• Round 10 - vs WCE, 16.7 in WA.
• Round 19 - vs the Hawks, 16.11 even more impressive given the wet conditions late in the game.
• Round 22 - 21.13 vs GWS. Biggest win for the year, valuable percentage.

At the end of the day, goal kicking is just as important as getting a win. If we want to push into the top 4, we need to start boosting our percentage and that will (in part) only happen by kicking bigger scores (as well as tightening our defence - which improved out of sight last year). Given the number of games we kicked more behinds than goals, it should be one of the biggest areas the boys should be addressing in preseason IMO.

Oh and I forgot to include the darkest loss of the year - the Elimination final:

We kicked 14.12, not bad but consider the tankers kicked 18.8 (again the same number of shots per side but they kicked better). I'm sure all of us can remember those costly missed set shots while we had a bit of a lead going. Kick those like we should have and maybe we might have broken their spirit/belief.

 

[WALDENPOND]

I may be wrong but I reckon Vickory by hopefully his mid 20s could be a really accurate kick, not just at Richmond but for the league. Again I could be wrong but seems to have the key to kick through the ball well.

 

[theflea]

Goal kicking accuracy is definitely something we should be trying to improve across the board. Looking over the results here are a number of games where we kicked very poorly, it's pretty surprising the number of games you could say we kicked poorly (mind you, I could be being a bit harsh here - I normally operate on the idea that an accurate side should be kicking more goals than behinds while a very accurate side kicks a lot more goals than behinds).

The bad:

• Round 1 - kicked 14.22 (lucky we just won in the end).
• Round 2 - 14.15 (win vs the Saints, more behinds than goals).
• Round 3 - 20.15 (big win over the dogs but really should have been more).
• Round 4 - 11.13 (loss vs the pies, any game where behinds are more than goals is a bad game IMO).
• Round 6 - 13.9 (vs Geelong, not bad but to push the best teams, we need to take our chances better).
• Round 8 - 15.16 (vs Melbourne - Melbourne stayed within striking distance up until the last quarter. We should have smashed them).
• Round 9 - 9.8 (vs Bummers - some say our worst game for the year).
• Round 12 - 16.14 (vs Crows - maybe a bit excusable due to the wet weather that day).
• Round 13 - 17.19 (vs Dogs again, another big win that should have been bigger still).
• Round 14 - 17.17 (vs Saints, big win but poor kicking accuracy again).
• Round 15 - 8.18 (vs North, big loss, not surprising with how poor we played/kicked that day).
• Round 16 - 6.17 (vs GC, broke the hoodoo but gave them every chance to make it 3-0 against us. Windy/slippery conditions for sure).
• Round 17 - 12.12 (vs Freo. We were in control all day but could have given ourselves a bit more breathing room with some better converting).
• Round 18 - 9.9 (up in Sydney vs the Swans, thoroughly beaten. Kicking a bit better may have helped keep us in the contest a bit longer but our matchups were wrong on the day).
• Round 20 - 14.13 vs the Lions, not bad but should have been closer to 17.10 IMO.
• Round 21 - 14.12 vs the scum. Lost by 10 points, the blues kicked 16.10 - same number of scoring chances but they converted better.
• Round 23 - 15.14, not great either, should have smashed the cheaters by a big margin.

The good (surprisingly all were great wins for the team last year):

• Round 7 - vs Port, we kicked 18.6 over in SA.
• Round 10 - vs WCE, 16.7 in WA.
• Round 19 - vs the Hawks, 16.11 even more impressive given the wet conditions late in the game.
• Round 22 - 21.13 vs GWS. Biggest win for the year, valuable percentage.

At the end of the day, goal kicking is just as important as getting a win. If we want to push into the top 4, we need to start boosting our percentage and that will (in part) only happen by kicking bigger scores (as well as tightening our defence - which improved out of sight last year). Given the number of games we kicked more behinds than goals, it should be one of the biggest areas the boys should be addressing in preseason IMO.

I think a lot of the time its the way we have shots too that contribute to the points stat. We have a lot of players who have a ping from all angles(Dusty for 1), and a lot of those are low %. If we are to win more games we need to be smarter in the way we go into our fwd line but also not necessarily take a shot willy nilly.

 

[Cevap_Roll]

That percentage for Aaron Edwards just proves why we went after him. 7 shot at goal out of ten are 6 pointers.

Interesting to know his stats when he came to us.
His kicking on goal was not that good last season

 

[RFCanalysist]

G'day all,

To continue the "summer series" of footy chats during off-season I thought I'd bring this subject up:

Goal kicking accuracy.......

In your opinion Tiger supporters (or any other supporters for that matter), what is an acceptable MINIMUM percentage when it comes to goal kicking accuracy?

Below are the top 10 goal kickers from season 2013 and their accuracy (for season 2013) plus their career goals and career accuracy which will be in brackets:


Jarryd Roughead: 72.34 = 67.92% (career: 366.238 = 60.59%)

Travis Cloke: 68.51 = 57.14% (career: 351.291 = 54.67%)

Jeremy Cameron: 62.27 = 69.66% (career: 91.42 = 68.43%)

Lance Franklin: 60.37 = 61.85% (career: 580.422 = 57.88%)

Josh Kennedy: 60.23 = 72.28% (career: 227.124 = 70.71%)

Jack Riewoldt: 58.33 = 63.73% (career: 320.184 = 63.49%)

Lindsay Thomas: 53.23 = 69.73% (career: 204.160 = 56.04%)

Nick Riewoldt: 50.36 = 58.13% (career: 570.383 = 59.81%)

Tom Hawkins: 49.20 = 71.01% (career: 218.120 = 64.49%

Jay Shultz: 49.26 = 65.33% (career: 213.113 = 65.33%)


In my opinion I reckon the minimum acceptable accuracy should be around 60% onwards. Give or take.

What do you think?

I think anything above 50% is acceptable, because it means you kick more goals than points which is good. So by that assumption all those players are acceptable. Cloke isn't that inaccurate IMO, cos more time than not it's straight through the middle. A couple of years ago, we play rance as a forward, and he was quite inaccurate. He couldn't take many marks. All these players are elite for a reason, and kick a lot of goals. It's cos they kick more goals than points. Dustin martin has been moved to the backline for this year, as he was a bad forward. He kicked something like 22.33, which is inaccurate and less goals than points and really bad. That's why he play as a permanent defender now, as the coach has said. Basically, he can set up play from defence and not be allowed to shoot for goal. Those are my thoughts.

 

[tigerz18]

Its not so easy to say someone is a certain % for their season/career etc. The angles that footballers can kick goals/have shots from are so varied, that if you have more shots from the pocket than from in front, your % is naturally going to be lower.
Goal kicking accuracy really should be measured from the anywhere inside the 45% angle 'V' coming from the centre of the goals. anywhere in this V should be a goal. Any where outside it (ie towards the boundary) is harder and should not be counted int he pure sense of goal kicking accuracy. i think averages would be a bit higher (except richo's and cloke's )

 

[fumbler]

Interesting to know his stats when he came to us.
His kicking on goal was not that good last season

Agree but he did make a difference when he was on the field, i think he lead to McGuane's demise.

 

[RunningBounce]

I think a lot of the time its the way we have shots too that contribute to the points stat. We have a lot of players who have a ping from all angles(Dusty for 1), and a lot of those are low %. If we are to win more games we need to be smarter in the way we go into our fwd line but also not necessarily take a shot willy nilly.

Absolutely.

I might be wrong, but I seem to remember more easy goals over the back in 2011 and 12. The 'Joe the Goose' ones, into an open square. Maybe in 2013 we had more shots outside 50 and from the pockets, rather than looking for an option.

This relates to Tigersz point about measuring accuracy in the V. Maybe % conversion is a measure of how smart a forward is, as much as how accurate. It's pretty dumb to have a ping from outside 50 on the boundary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hank Heavenly]

I think the best stat in relation to goal accuracy is set shots... Theoretically no pressure, all you have to do is kick the ball straight! And I dont want to hear excuses as to where you kicking it from, it theres daylight between the sticks, a straight kick will do the job!!!

I think we are far to leniant of these blokes, they are professionals getting paid huge $$$ and Kicking is the main skill of their trade! 65% is an absolute Minimum in my eyes, but even then, would you be happy if your doctor only got it right 65% of the time.

If JR kicked 30.10 from set shots (75%), that would be my expectation, if then in general play 25.25 I'd also be accepting of that as it is not normally his job and there are other pressures involved. it would still leave him with an overall accuracy of 61%

 

[NUFC Tiger]

I think a lot of the time its the way we have shots too that contribute to the points stat. We have a lot of players who have a ping from all angles(Dusty for 1), and a lot of those are low %. If we are to win more games we need to be smarter in the way we go into our fwd line but also not necessarily take a shot willy nilly.

Yep definitely right flea - I think along with being smarter, our forward structure/game plan needs to be improved (as it, at times, did seem to be a bit all over the shop last year). Look at our defence, think we finished with the third tightest defence last season and I think that was in part because as a group/unit, the defenders were better organised, knew their roles etc. I think our forwardline probably lacks a couple of 'leaders' like we have down back with Rance and Chaplin. Probably Jack being the only one.

 

[tigerz18]

Absolutely.

I might be wrong, but I seem to remember more easy goals over the back in 2011 and 12. The 'Joe the Goose' ones, into an open square. Maybe in 2013 we had more shots outside 50 and from the pockets, rather than looking for an option.

This relates to Tigersz point about measuring accuracy in the V. Maybe % conversion is a measure of how smart a forward is, as much as how accurate. It's pretty dumb to have a ping from outside 50 on the boundary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i think those should be re-christened the Cleve the Beave ones.

 

[YackStar]

At the end of the day you can have a high percentage "stat" if you like but it means stuff all if you can't do it when it matters. Take the great Richo, you would close your eyes when he is inside 30 especially if straight in front but outside 40m on the boundary ride it home. % accuracy doesn't indicate the pressure or relative expectation to nail it.

Sorry not a lover of stats............

Yep. I think that when Richo had played the same number of games as Sav Rocca they had kicked the same amount of goals. But Richo brought more to the game than a stop and prop FF.

 

[Cotcho]

Remember last year, I think the game was North Melbourne v Gold Coast? Maybe...But one of the teams was being absolutely crushed in the wet and the ball literally didn't move outside of about 70m from goal.

Richo said something along the lines of, they need to concede a goal to get it out of their area. Yer they lose 5 more points but they stop the rot. BT and Darc etc obviously couldn't comprehend it but it is very important when you think about it.

Yes kicking goals and taking chances wins games but this is modern footy. Sometimes it is better to kick to areas which do not favour goal kicking accuracy to ensure that the opposition cannot rebound and hurt you. There is no point kicking a goal and allowing the opposition to simply get the next one because you kicked it 35m out directly in front to the rebounding Jake Carlisle or Lachy Hanson for instance. There is method to the madness and I firmly believe our goal kicking accuracy is a product of where we take our shots from (as instructed to kick to pockets and use high %age stoppages to score). Our goal kickers are no worse than any other clubs and it isn't an issue IMO.

Behinds are underrated!

 

[PerthBoy87]

For those interested, see below link for goal kicking accuracy from 1974 to 2013. Interesting numbers. Good to see a Richmond player as the most accurate.


http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/accuracy.html