What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 3

[weltschmerz]

Whatever the victim needs that can be provided, we need to give it to him. Cost of living/victims of crime settlement, lifelong psychiatric care, taking ownership and issuing a public apology and admission of fault, whatever it is, we do it.

 

[Testekill]

Whatever the victim needs that can be provided, we need to give it to him. Cost of living/victims of crime settlement, lifelong psychiatric care, taking ownership and issuing a public apology and admission of fault, whatever it is, we do it.

Yeah, we need to provide whatever support we can give to him. That's some lifelong traumatic shit

 

[MYOB]

That is a hard read, very horrific.

Adam has had the courage to tell his story, it's now time for the club to stand up and support him in whatever way possible.

Yes it was 40 years ago, but it happened at our club, and if we don't help Adam, who will.

 

[Mikey13G]

Adam's parents thought he was Footscray's water boy, but their shy little boy had entered 'perpetual hell'

When Adam Kneale was offered a chance to help out around the Footscray Football Club as an 11-year-old, he thought he was realising every kids' dream. Instead, he faced unimaginable trauma. WARNING: This story contains graphic descriptions of sexual abuse.

www.abc.net.au

Warning - distressing.

I read that article on the ABC today and it was shocking. The article questions why nobody at the club was aware about it or knew about the behaviour of "Chops"- Graeme Hobbs.

His abuser wheedled out other telling details: Adam's eagerness for money, his truancy from a tough new school, news that Lyn and Chas's marriage was faltering, that by 1986 Chas had moved out, and soon, amid the worst of his abuse, Adam's enthusiasm for drugs that helped him disassociate.

I think most people don't expect any of that to happen so there wouldn't be any suspicions about a well known volunteer of the club having a teenager by his side. They probably thought he was taking a troubled kid under his wing, but obviously that wasn't the case. It's disgusting how low the sentence was for Hobbs after destroying Adam's life.

RIPPEY, Tahmykah Karehana - CAA

IN THE DISTRICT COURT CRIMINAL JURISDICTION ADELAIDE THURSDAY, 7 APRIL 2022 AT 9.44 A.M. BEFORE HER HONOUR JUDGE DAVISON NO.DCCRM-21-257 R V TAHMYKAH KAREHANA RIPPEY HER HONOUR IN SENTENCING SAID: Tahmykah Rippey, you have been found guilty by the jury of one count of maintaining an unlawful...

www.courts.sa.gov.au

I played rugby league with this guy for a couple of seasons, including a Premiership. He was always a popular guy around the club and none of us would've thought he would be doing that to his step-daughter!

The second was Footscray Football Club's failure to publicly acknowledge Adam's story — no statement, no expression of regret, not so much as a notation in its annual report.

It would be good for the Bulldogs to reach out to Adam.

 

[Sentinel]

Adam's parents thought he was Footscray's water boy, but their shy little boy had entered 'perpetual hell'

When Adam Kneale was offered a chance to help out around the Footscray Football Club as an 11-year-old, he thought he was realising every kids' dream. Instead, he faced unimaginable trauma. WARNING: This story contains graphic descriptions of sexual abuse.

www.abc.net.au

Warning - distressing.

Thanks for posting. A particularly difficult read, just an awful situation and distressing to hear it happened at the football club for such a sustained period. Can only hope that the club provides adequate and appropriate support for the victim, although this really should have already been happening.

Russell Jackson is a brilliant journalist, he's the same person who wrote about Robbie Muir's struggles a couple of years back, amongst other great pieces of work.

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

Adam's parents thought he was Footscray's water boy, but their shy little boy had entered 'perpetual hell'

When Adam Kneale was offered a chance to help out around the Footscray Football Club as an 11-year-old, he thought he was realising every kids' dream. Instead, he faced unimaginable trauma. WARNING: This story contains graphic descriptions of sexual abuse.

www.abc.net.au

Warning - distressing.

Bizarre detail that the abused is related to Peter Gordon.

———————

‘Mr Kneale said that, despite knowing about the crimes committed by his abuser since 1994, the Bulldogs had never sought to contact him nor offer assistance. The club's president in 1994, Peter Gordon, is a cousin of Mr Kneale's father.

In a written response to questions from ABC Sport, Mr Gordon said he had no recollection of Adam's story and "no knowledge of any interaction the club may have had with Adam nor any offer of assistance".

"Until this week, I was unaware my cousin, Charles Kneale, had a son named Adam, and I have no recollection of hearing of Adam or what you have described," Mr Gordon said.’

 

[BEaston]

shocking and terrible story. Very sad.

 

[lateniter]

I'm sure as fans of the Western Bulldogs we'd rather not be hearing about what happened to Adam.
But it looks like some pretty shameful behaviour by the club.
Historic cases are still being prosecuted and institutions such as churches are being held to account.
Given there was a police investigation and a trial how could the club not be aware of this case?
On the basis of this story, the club needs to take a hard look at itself and do something about Adam.

 

[Mutt]

Special report on the ABC News tonight about the abuse of children by a club official during the 1980s. Doesn't reflect well on the club if the club hasn't acknowledged what took place. We need to do what we can to help the victims of this monster.

 

[dogwatch]

Just finished it.

Crikey that's a long, gruelling read. But it's something we should read. Something that must be acknowledged.
As Jackson implies in his report we need to have the endurance to listen, to read and take it all on board. It's the least we can do for blokes like Adam who has come forward after three decades to try to get rid of some of his PTSD demons.

I have a feeling there will be more stories emerging like this, perhaps even from other clubs as well as ours. Last year there was St Kilda FC, now Footscray FC ...

Our club must stay the course on this and Bains must remain true to his word. Almost certainly none of the current administration had any idea of the crimes committed or the fact that the club seemed to have looked away when Hobbs went to court in the 1990s.

Nonetheless it happened at our club. So we have always had institutional responsibilities to the victims and its not too late to do something constructive about it.

 

[D Mitchell]

Nobody will disagree with any of the sentiments expressed in this thread about that sicko Hobbs or that the Club should go on the front foot in support of Adam and his family. Pedos are masters at deception, evidenced by their ability to abuse kiddies yet have their victims not disclose to even their parents, that's all well documented. If Peter Gordon and / or Dennis Galimberti say they didn't know, they are entitled to the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I read this article this morning, and it has sat heavy on me all day. How could the club not reach out to him. I feel for that little boy, and I feel angry that the club did nothing.

 

[ossie_21]

Shocking to read, but a very well put-together article. Good to see that the club will be reaching out to him, but also very disappointing that apparently nobody at the club knew, even after the court cases?

Not excusing it in the slightest, but the comments around access to the offices etc being a bit lax in those days is 100% true. I’m not sure what the process was as I was only a young kid in the early 90’s, but I remember my dad taking us into the change rooms straight after games to meet some of the players & get autographs on a number of occasions. As far as I can remember you could basically walk straight in

 

[revo333]

That was a very tough read, even more so when it involves the club you support.

The club should be ashamed and so should Gordon with his 'I wasn't aware' response.

 

[Sentinel]

Nobody will disagree with any of the sentiments expressed in this thread about that sicko Hobbs or that the Club should go on the front foot in support of Adam and his family. Pedos are masters at deception, evidenced by their ability to abuse kiddies yet have their victims not disclose to even their parents, that's all well documented. If Peter Gordon and / or Dennis Galimberti say they didn't know, they are entitled to the benefit of the doubt.

I generally agree but, this went through the court system shortly afterwards - if not the specific individuals mentioned in the article, the club itself certainly must have known about it.

It appears that the club did very little if anything towards support for the victim, both at the time of what had occurred coming out and since. I find that a little hard to stomach if true.

 

[Mofra]

Whatever the victim needs that can be provided, we need to give it to him. Cost of living/victims of crime settlement, lifelong psychiatric care, taking ownership and issuing a public apology and admission of fault, whatever it is, we do it.

This 100%. Open the chequebook and offer every available support under the sun. The poor guy absolutely deserves it.

As an aside, only 3 years jail? That's just sick

 

[dogwatch]

I generally agree but, this went through the court system shortly afterwards - if not the specific individuals mentioned in the article, the club itself certainly must have known about it.

It appears that the club did very little if anything towards support for the victim, both at the time of what had occurred coming out and since. I find that a little hard to stomach if true.

Especially when "everybody at the club" knew the bloke according to Kneale.

It's simply not credible that none of the hierarchy knew about his conviction and imprisonment when he appears to have been a fixture at the club for most of the previous decade. Did Gordon or Galimberti - both lawyers - specifically know of the case? I will give them the benefit of the doubt, at least for now. Both have denied any knowledge even though it was reported in the local paper. I can certainly believe that it would never have been discussed at Board level. Even now corporations, religious organisations and NFPs are just coming to terms with how to deal with the issue in their ranks. Back then a court case like that was something that was swept under the carpet. Morally shameful yes, but that was the standard of the times. People didn't talk candidly about the issue the way they do now.

As for the 3 year gaol term, it's probably a similar story. If Hobbs (now deceased) was to face a court today I reckon he'd get at least 3 times that sentence.

The Royal Commission into institutional child abuse and the work of people like Grace Tame has certainly lifted the awareness and hopefully the courage and moral standards of the general public in regard to this dark underside of Australian life. Kneale didn't feel ready to come out and tell his story at the time of the Royal Commission a few years ago (2013-2015). It took great courage and an increasing sense of desperation for him to come forward now. How many more Adam Kneales are still out there with their story yet to be told?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Especially when "everybody at the club" knew the bloke according to Kneale.

It's simply not credible that none of the hierarchy knew about his conviction and imprisonment when he appears to have been a fixture at the club for most of the previous decade. Did Gordon or Galimberti - both lawyers - specifically know of the case? I will give them the benefit of the doubt, at least for now. Both have denied any knowledge even though it was reported in the local paper. I can certainly believe that it would never have been discussed at Board level. Even now corporations, religious organisations and NFPs are just coming to terms with how to deal with the issue in their ranks. Back then a court case like that was something that was swept under the carpet. Morally shameful yes, but that was the standard of the times. People didn't talk candidly about the issue the way they do now.

As for the 3 year gaol term, it's probably a similar story. If Hobbs (now deceased) was to face a court today I reckon he'd get at least 3 times that sentence.

The Royal Commission into institutional child abuse and the work of people like Grace Tame has certainly lifted the awareness and hopefully the courage and moral standards of the general public in regard to this dark underside of Australian life. Kneale didn't feel ready to come out and tell his story at the time of the Royal Commission a few years ago (2013-2015). It took great courage and an increasing sense of desperation for him to come forward now. How many more Adam Kneales are still out there with their story yet to be told?

Stuff like this has gone on everywhere since time began. But children weren't believed, or if they were it was hushed up for many reasons. But this behaviour was well-known; I remember adults in my own family discussing a couple of incidents, but what could be done, other than keep your kids away from known perpetrators, sometimes easier said than done? Police weren't interested. Adults had more authority over kids, you weren't supposed to disobey them. That included teachers, group leaders, clergy. One of the great benefits of modern communication is the dissemination of information about the law and the lid being lifted off previously taboo subjects.

It's easy to look back a few decades and say in hindsight that someone should have done something, but that's not the way it went back then.

 

[NBates]

Stuff like this has gone on everywhere since time began. But children weren't believed, or if they were it was hushed up for many reasons. But this behaviour was well-known; I remember adults in my own family discussing a couple of incidents, but what could be done, other than keep your kids away from known perpetrators, sometimes easier said than done? Police weren't interested. Adults had more authority over kids, you weren't supposed to disobey them. That included teachers, group leaders, clergy. One of the great benefits of modern communication is the dissemination of information about the law and the lid being lifted off previously taboo subjects.

It's easy to look back a few decades and say in hindsight that someone should have done something, but that's not the way it went back then.

I agree. But we can now say it was/is wrong and do something about it. I think the club statement said Bains had reached out to the victim to apologise in person and offer help.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I agree. But we can now say it was/is wrong and do something about it. I think the club statement said Bains had reached out to the victim to apologise in person and offer help.

Absolutely. My point was that, at that time, it wasn't "the thing" to call people out publicly for these crimes. Sounds like some people at the club turned a blind eye, didn't want to know, which was wrong of course.

 

[footscray1973]

Especially when "everybody at the club" knew the bloke according to Kneale.

It's simply not credible that none of the hierarchy knew about his conviction and imprisonment when he appears to have been a fixture at the club for most of the previous decade. Did Gordon or Galimberti - both lawyers - specifically know of the case? I will give them the benefit of the doubt, at least for now. Both have denied any knowledge even though it was reported in the local paper. I can certainly believe that it would never have been discussed at Board level. Even now corporations, religious organisations and NFPs are just coming to terms with how to deal with the issue in their ranks. Back then a court case like that was something that was swept under the carpet. Morally shameful yes, but that was the standard of the times. People didn't talk candidly about the issue the way they do now.

As for the 3 year gaol term, it's probably a similar story. If Hobbs (now deceased) was to face a court today I reckon he'd get at least 3 times that sentence.

The Royal Commission into institutional child abuse and the work of people like Grace Tame has certainly lifted the awareness and hopefully the courage and moral standards of the general public in regard to this dark underside of Australian life. Kneale didn't feel ready to come out and tell his story at the time of the Royal Commission a few years ago (2013-2015). It took great courage and an increasing sense of desperation for him to come forward now. How many more Adam Kneales are still out there with their story yet to be told?

It may not have been discussed at board level dogwatch, but from my experience at another similar institution, there were rumours and people up the chain who knew or had heard that "X was dodgy around younger and vulnerable people". Given the circumstances and frequency of the abuse happening in club rooms on match day, it beggars belief that no one ever witnessed anything, or no one had a sense that Hobbs' behaviour was not normal. Galimberti acknowledges he knew him, and knew a complaint had been made against him, yet as general manager and a practising solicitor he didn't ask what that complaint was?! And Gordon has that convenient estrangement and "I was too busy" angle. May well be true, but in my experience senior people were aware of abuse, but chose to distance themselves from it rather than address it, then try and claim ignorance after the fact. Galimberti and Gordon may well be telling the truth - but many other cases have consistently shown the opposite to be true, and I approach statements like these with a great deal of scepticism. I'm not accusing them of lying, mind you, just that their version of the truth sounds similar to other versions of truth I've heard, where additional details were conveniently omitted from similar statements.

I also acknowledge that many other people in those offices or passing through those club rooms were probably more likely to have been aware of what was going on, perhaps even directly witnessed something, and also chose to ignore it or were not sure themselves what to do, as the societal attitudes and transparency at the time was very different to today, and I'm not trying to blame Gordon and Galimberti for any failed actions at the time. I'm just disappointed that their immediate response, as it has been at St Kilda and elsewhere, is to highlight their own ignorance first, while also acknowledge the victim at the same time. Make a statement first regarding the victim, wait for the club to make a statement, then state your own recollections separately. It's just disrespectful to the victim to worry about distancing yourself at the same time.

Sorry all, not sure if I've expressed clearly how I feel about this, it's just a very emotive issue for me. I'm going to take a break from BF for a while, these cases throw me off kilter a bit, and that it has occurred in an environment where I moved myself in that era occasionally, as it has with other cases, I am struggling to manage my thought process at the moment.

 

[conrad_437]

It may not have been discussed at board level dogwatch, but from my experience at another similar institution, there were rumours and people up the chain who knew or had heard that "X was dodgy around younger and vulnerable people". Given the circumstances and frequency of the abuse happening in club rooms on match day, it beggars belief that no one ever witnessed anything, or no one had a sense that Hobbs' behaviour was not normal. Galimberti acknowledges he knew him, and knew a complaint had been made against him, yet as general manager and a practising solicitor he didn't ask what that complaint was?! And Gordon has that convenient estrangement and "I was too busy" angle. May well be true, but in my experience senior people were aware of abuse, but chose to distance themselves from it rather than address it, then try and claim ignorance after the fact. Galimberti and Gordon may well be telling the truth - but many other cases have consistently shown the opposite to be true, and I approach statements like these with a great deal of scepticism. I'm not accusing them of lying, mind you, just that their version of the truth sounds similar to other versions of truth I've heard, where additional details were conveniently omitted from similar statements.

I also acknowledge that many other people in those offices or passing through those club rooms were probably more likely to have been aware of what was going on, perhaps even directly witnessed something, and also chose to ignore it or were not sure themselves what to do, as the societal attitudes and transparency at the time was very different to today, and I'm not trying to blame Gordon and Galimberti for any failed actions at the time. I'm just disappointed that their immediate response, as it has been at St Kilda and elsewhere, is to highlight their own ignorance first, while also acknowledge the victim at the same time. Make a statement first regarding the victim, wait for the club to make a statement, then state your own recollections separately. It's just disrespectful to the victim to worry about distancing yourself at the same time.

Sorry all, not sure if I've expressed clearly how I feel about this, it's just a very emotive issue for me. I'm going to take a break from BF for a while, these cases throw me off kilter a bit, and that it has occurred in an environment where I moved myself in that era occasionally, as it has with other cases, I am struggling to manage my thought process at the moment.

Hope you're okay, best wishes.

 

[ExRoyboy]

Didn't even know they had a channel

That’s awesome to watch that, really good behind the scenes insight into what they were thinking. Obviously would have loved to hear about the trade situation concerning Essendon but maybe that was still a little too hard to openly discuss. But really interesting to watch. And good to see Dunks loves Picko just as much as everyone else at the Dogs, absolute legend Liam Picken.

 

[dogwatch]

It may not have been discussed at board level dogwatch, but from my experience at another similar institution, there were rumours and people up the chain who knew or had heard that "X was dodgy around younger and vulnerable people". Given the circumstances and frequency of the abuse happening in club rooms on match day, it beggars belief that no one ever witnessed anything, or no one had a sense that Hobbs' behaviour was not normal. Galimberti acknowledges he knew him, and knew a complaint had been made against him, yet as general manager and a practising solicitor he didn't ask what that complaint was?! And Gordon has that convenient estrangement and "I was too busy" angle. May well be true, but in my experience senior people were aware of abuse, but chose to distance themselves from it rather than address it, then try and claim ignorance after the fact. Galimberti and Gordon may well be telling the truth - but many other cases have consistently shown the opposite to be true, and I approach statements like these with a great deal of scepticism. I'm not accusing them of lying, mind you, just that their version of the truth sounds similar to other versions of truth I've heard, where additional details were conveniently omitted from similar statements.

I also acknowledge that many other people in those offices or passing through those club rooms were probably more likely to have been aware of what was going on, perhaps even directly witnessed something, and also chose to ignore it or were not sure themselves what to do, as the societal attitudes and transparency at the time was very different to today, and I'm not trying to blame Gordon and Galimberti for any failed actions at the time. I'm just disappointed that their immediate response, as it has been at St Kilda and elsewhere, is to highlight their own ignorance first, while also acknowledge the victim at the same time. Make a statement first regarding the victim, wait for the club to make a statement, then state your own recollections separately. It's just disrespectful to the victim to worry about distancing yourself at the same time.

Sorry all, not sure if I've expressed clearly how I feel about this, it's just a very emotive issue for me. I'm going to take a break from BF for a while, these cases throw me off kilter a bit, and that it has occurred in an environment where I moved myself in that era occasionally, as it has with other cases, I am struggling to manage my thought process at the moment.

Very similar thoughts to mine regarding who knew what and when.
The important thing now is for the club to be as constructive and supportive as it can be.

Take time. Take care.

 

[JB1975]

We can hope that the rolling tragedy written about in that ABC article represents an aberration, but demons are rarely so confined.

St Kilda is confronting historical trauma, now the Bulldogs, and it beggars belief that other clubs didn't in some way enable the same sort of evil. This is my way of saying that each club can and should deal with their own sordid past, but that the AFL needs to make a response on behalf of the league, one which 'creates a space' for other victims to come forward.