What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 4

[flipper83]

Have no problem with Schaches comments. My problem with the match committee, has always been the inconsistent messages applied with match selection. Young got dropped after one okay game, and there were worse defenders than him that game who had stinkers, yet he was the scape goat. McComb got game after game despite low impact, and heaps of turn overs and does not get dropped. Schache has a quiet game and gets dropped, yet other forwards could go weeks without a bag, and keep their place.

Some players get to keep their spot despite a run of average games, where others get dropped based on one. Or a someone will come up from the VFL after a run of good form, and only get one or two games to try and show something, where others get longer runs.

There has never been consistency with selections under Bevo.

Don't drop someone if there were worse players in their position that game.
Don't drop someone based on one poor game, when others have had a run of poor games.
Reward form in the reserves and give them a longer run at it. Thought Bedendo got the toughest opponents for the season in a row, and a couple were away I think. Should have been given a longer run when we had a softer home fixture before he was dropped.

I don't think as fans we're in a position to know anything about the messaging around match selection but I'd be confident that metrics that are often used by fans and media to judge a good game would be much less important to coaches.

A player might end up with a couple of cheap goals and a bunch of possessions but they might have played a selfish game that let their opponents run rampant and burnt their team mates.

On the flip side a player with a quiet game on the stat sheet might have done everything asked of him, selfless running to congest or create space, halving contests etc.

You would hope that the coaches messaging to players around what they value and where the players have or haven't met expectation would be clear.

I don't necessarily know that they are but I wouldn't take an interview from a disgruntled former player as evidence that it isn't.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

The interesting one having watched it was the Hunter trade. If only we could guess why they had so much secrecy around it

Pretty easy to work out

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

We know the issues were off field but it was just interesting to see how in the show they go into little to no detail on why he is traded and for so little and even take their mics off when discussing it

They would not have been able to discuss his off field activities on camera but it wasn’t a secret to anyone in footy which is why he went for such a low pick relative to his talent

 

[Bald]

It’s possible that both these statements are true:

Josh had ample opportunities and squandered them more often than not.

Josh was overlooked for selection unfairly.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Have no problem with Schaches comments. My problem with the match committee, has always been the inconsistent messages applied with match selection. Young got dropped after one okay game, and there were worse defenders than him that game who had stinkers, yet he was the scape goat. McComb got game after game despite low impact, and heaps of turn overs and does not get dropped. Schache has a quiet game and gets dropped, yet other forwards could go weeks without a bag, and keep their place.

Some players get to keep their spot despite a run of average games, where others get dropped based on one. Or a someone will come up from the VFL after a run of good form, and only get one or two games to try and show something, where others get longer runs.

There has never been consistency with selections under Bevo.

Don't drop someone if there were worse players in their position that game.
Don't drop someone based on one poor game, when others have had a run of poor games.
Reward form in the reserves and give them a longer run at it. Thought Bedendo got the toughest opponents for the season in a row, and a couple were away I think. Should have been given a longer run when we had a softer home fixture before he was dropped.

This is a nonsense

There are more factors than what you see on the surface including match ups not following team rules, not following instructions etc etc

2nd guessing match committee calls is easy to do but ultimately ill informed

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

I agree with Dergent's first 2 sentences and Cerberus's first 2 paragraphs. Properly handled, Schache was our Riewoldt. If Melbourne treat him properly, a running, marking, multiple goal scoring enigma, we are going to look stupid with our 3 tall, non chasing, prima donnas leaking uncontested exits by opposition defenders waltzing out of defence under no pressure, just like last season.

Yeah nah

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Is there a third Riewoldt footballer I'm not aware of because there is no way you’re suggesting he is any way comparable to Nick or Jack?

the 3rd brother played for the Seekers

 

[_Cerberus_]

You might even think that the coaches look at and assess players in a totally different way to us fans . Weird notion maybe…

Never said they don't. I was speaking from a fan perspective, which is pretty evident from the amount of melts we get each week on the selection posts. I don't think Schache did enough to warrant selection myself. He lacked off the ball work, and you need to be able to play two ways in the modern game. I was just highlighting how some players can have a few poor weeks and wont get dropped, where some could get dropped after one. Just highlighting that it can send mixed messages.

It was the same for me currently playing sport. Was an instant starter most years and made state team every year in juniors, and once again in seniors. But was fighting off the bench in recent times due to quality at my position that had come through. Coaches would say, "we reward those who train, over those who do not". Trained all preseason, did not miss a session in two months. Started the first game, got best on ground defensively. Was dropped to the bench for the next game, for our "star" who did not train all preseason and decided to rock up for week two. Because of his "reputation", not form or effort. And if I blew one play, I would get dragged from the field. But the other guy could blow 3-4 plays, and stay on on the field. Nothing worse as a player than getting conflicting messages and different rules for different players.

That is why whenever I coach, I react and treat all equally regardless. If you stuff up or have a bad game, I'm not reacting to one player differently to another.

As Norm said perfectly below, the club clearly wanted to prioritize JUHs development, and felt it was worth persisting with regardless of form. Of cause Schache will feel hard one by, if that is how he feels, so be it, let him vent. Now he has his chance to prove people right or wrong. I'm sure most on here have questioned selections at times in threads. Wish him all the best, but I am happy with JUH, Naughton, Darcy as our attacking trio for the next decade.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

It’s possible that all of these statements are true:

Josh had ample opportunities and squandered them more often than not.

Josh was overlooked for selection unfairly
Josh is a state league player

EFA.

The club had a very good look at Schache and decided that it wanted to fast track the development of JUH.

It's a Beveridge trope. He did exactly the same thing with English over players that a line had been put through.

I dont have an issue with what Schache said either. It just reflects the brutal reality of being a fringe player at any club.

This is not something that is likely to change for him going forward. Like many of his type he is very fortunate that he is not a high draft pick mid, because he would've been consigned to the scrap heap of football history now. I'll be staggered if his career at Melbourne adds up to any more that it did with The Bulldogs. Given Melbournes gun midfield, depth of quality forwards, he'll get opportunities, he'll play the occasional good game, be in and out of the side and all of the flaws that have been apparent in his game since his draft year will be on full display.

Brisbane fans tried to warn us. The least we can do is do the same for Melbourne fans reading this thread.

 

[Dog 36]

Regarding Schache comments

- Is there a problem with what Schache said? NO. You could see he as a player was in and out of the side, never settled in one position and seemed to be one of the first dropped.

- Was the above justified? Both Schache and the Club could mount a reasonable case to argue their point.

- Was it the right call to trade him? Yes it was, it was the best thing for both club and player IMO.

 

[dergert]

Schache will make a fortune playing country footy somewhere

 

[geoffjennings79]

So the subtle digs at JUH continue, but now trying to disguise it by lumping him in with Naughton and Lobb. Some people just have a fixation.

 

[ossie_21]

So the subtle digs at JUH continue, but now trying to disguise it by lumping him in with Naughton and Lobb. Some people just have a fixation.

More lies too. Naughton chases all the time and JUH is doing it more as his fitness improves.

But we all know that for tall forwards, the most important thing they can do is chase and pressure when they don’t have the ball. Don’t worry about whoever else is in there, just the tall ****ers.

 

[Bulldogs85]

So the subtle digs at JUH continue, but now trying to disguise it by lumping him in with Naughton and Lobb. Some people just have a fixation.

No one should be surprised who it come from

 

[threenewpadlocks]

They're comments that's part of a documentary that's deliberately trying to be candid and behind the scenes, in which the write up is more harsh than the actual documentary itself. What he's saying has a lot of merit, and it doesn't seem like he's having a go at the club, or the people that made the decisions per se, more just speaking to the reality of the situation he found himself in and how it wasn't the best for his own career. Fair enough.

We also did get a lot out of him, in spite of people downplaying his form. He plugged holes. We asked him to stunt his own development in certain areas to help the team, and he actually had a critical role doing that in one of our most important H&A wins in recent years (when he played CHB against Melbourne in 2021, that made us all feel confident about a flag). He presumably performed to the level that he was realistically asked in the VFL, hence the gripes. In terms of what some players clearly think and say around trade time, this seems pretty mild - the difference being was that there's a documentary crew in his face. He'll likely play a few fill-in games for Melbourne, some games will be okay, some won't, and it's a 50-50 chance he's on an AFL list in a few seasons. So be it.

 

[Just Watching]

I agree with Dergent's first 2 sentences and Cerberus's first 2 paragraphs. Properly handled, Schache was our Riewoldt. If Melbourne treat him properly, a running, marking, multiple goal scoring enigma, we are going to look stupid with our 3 tall, non chasing, prima donnas leaking uncontested exits by opposition defenders waltzing out of defence under no pressure, just like last season.

Except Riewoldt was good.

 

[Libbaaaa]

They're comments that's part of a documentary that's deliberately trying to be candid and behind the scenes, in which the write up is more harsh than the actual documentary itself. What he's saying has a lot of merit, and it doesn't seem like he's having a go at the club, or the people that made the decisions per se, more just speaking to the reality of the situation he found himself in and how it wasn't the best for his own career. Fair enough.

We also did get a lot out of him, in spite of people downplaying his form. He plugged holes. We asked him to stunt his own development in certain areas to help the team, and he actually had a critical role doing that in one of our most important H&A wins in recent years (when he played CHB against Melbourne in 2021, that made us all feel confident about a flag). He presumably performed to the level that he was realistically asked in the VFL, hence the gripes. In terms of what some players clearly think and say around trade time, this seems pretty mild - the difference being was that there's a documentary crew in his face. He'll likely play a few fill-in games for Melbourne, some games will be okay, some won't, and it's a 50-50 chance he's on an AFL list in a few seasons. So be it.

Players should be so lucky that they still get a say in where they’ll go.

 

[dogwatch]

Glad we're holding the line. What a cancer Crown is.

Crown offers sponsorship to AFL clubs that have promised to refuse gambling cash

Disgraced casino operator Crown Resorts is offering sponsorship deals to multiple AFL clubs that could see them abandon a pledge not to accept money from gambling companies.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Fossie 32]

Glad we're holding the line. What a cancer Crown is.

Crown offers sponsorship to AFL clubs that have promised to refuse gambling cash

Disgraced casino operator Crown Resorts is offering sponsorship deals to multiple AFL clubs that could see them abandon a pledge not to accept money from gambling companies.

www.abc.net.au

How about crypto sponsorship

 

[doggies ftw]

Glad we're holding the line. What a cancer Crown is.

Crown offers sponsorship to AFL clubs that have promised to refuse gambling cash

Disgraced casino operator Crown Resorts is offering sponsorship deals to multiple AFL clubs that could see them abandon a pledge not to accept money from gambling companies.

www.abc.net.au

Take the money & run

 

[BarryMorgan]

More lies too. Naughton chases all the time and JUH is doing it more as his fitness improves.

But we all know that for tall forwards, the most important thing they can do is chase and pressure when they don’t have the ball. Don’t worry about whoever else is in there, just the tall *ers.

Naughton would be one of the hardest chasers out of all the big forwards in the comp.

 

[D Mitchell]

Naughton would be one of the hardest chasers out of all the big forwards in the comp.

Naughton’s 2nd and 3rd efforts to win the ball are among the best at the Club. However when the opposition has control of the ball, he’s not particularly persistent or intense. The best last year was Weightman, then daylight. West wasn’t too bad. Watch Libber, he never gives up. I don’ t know about Lobb but unless the forwards greatly improve their defensive efforts, then opposition defenders will continue to waltz out of defence and set up forward forays with ease, just like last year.

 

[ScragCity]

Based on dialogue from the documentary, I don't believe that we are paying any of Hunter's salary. It seems likely that we mutually agreed to terminate the previous contract and a new contract was negotiated with Melbourne on less salary. It's quite possible that he breached certain conditions in his contract with us anyway and probably didn't have much leverage, or he was mature enough to accept that he didn't deserve to be paid out.

 

[stevieg1969]

I watched the ‘Show Me The Money’ doco. No issues with what Schache said and the logic that he would always be behind JUH, Naughton and Darcy given their age profile. I’d like to know when Melbourne realise that Josh can’t actually ruck. Also, although they are a necessary evil, player agents have extremely high opinions of themselves.

 

[Libbaaaa]

I watched the ‘Show Me The Money’ doco. No issues with what Schache said and the logic that he would always be behind JUH, Naughton and Darcy given their age profile. I’d like to know when Melbourne realise that Josh can’t actually ruck. Also, although they are a necessary evil, player agents have extremely high opinions of themselves.

The show for me is so forced and contrived, much like trade period itself.