What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 4

[Sentinel]

I don't disagree with this at all but it doesn't address the post that you quoted. Before COVID, it's pretty well known/rumoured around this board that Bevo had run-ins with Dalrymple and McCartney as our recruiting manager and list manager, Beveridge apparently didn't want to concede all his power to those two in future planning, and we lost those two for this reason. McCartney in particular has done an excellent job overseeing the long-term planning of GWS to get them to where they are now and continues to be highly regarded in the AFL industry, promoted from list manager to GM of Football for GWS (Egan's role). It's a shame that we lost McCartney and there's no reason to think that we couldn't have eventually promoted him into the role that he's at GWS now and Egan has now, had he had a better relationship with Beveridge.

In a similar manner Dalrymple was apparently very unhappy at Beveridge overrulling the work they had done in analysing the draft pool for our rookie pick in the 2017 draft, promoting Billy Gowers from our VFL team. This shows you the difficult nature of the relationship and managing the division of responsibilities among highly capable footy staff at the time - Beveridge was not entirely wrong pushing for Gowers, who proved to be our 2018 leading goalkicker, and insisting on selecting Gowers was the right call as we got better-than-expected value out of him. On the other hand, you can't be overruling what should have been clear division of responsibilities, and Dalrymple and the team may have been confident that they would have drafted someone like Brody Mihocek or Liam Baker, players that went later in the rookie draft and presumably we were looking at.

A huge part of all of this has clearly been a lack of efficient leadership above Bevo. You can have tensions within an organisation, that's often healthy, but they need to be managed to actually be constructive. Without knowing the full story, the situation with Bevo overruling Dalrymple seems odd to have ever been allowed to occur given their respective positions within the organisation - there must have been someone above signing off on it.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Footy Classified showed a game from 2022 as their example of how we defended last year. Was comical.

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

Sam Landsberger can **** off seeing what he said about Beveridge playing favourites. It’s been reported Macrae needs to build his fitness up.

Maybe Sam should ask his dad for info before writing a story.

 

[Dazb86]

Sam Landsberger can * off seeing what he said about Beveridge playing favourites. It’s been reported Macrae needs to build his fitness up.

Maybe Sam should ask his dad for info before writing a story.

It's a fair assessment to be honest. He's had a history of playing mature age spuds over guys with talent developing within the club.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

It's a fair assessment to be honest. He's had a history of playing mature age spuds over guys with talent developing within the club.

Who was the young talent missing out?

Most of the talented young guys that were up to it played in their first year or so. Naughts, Baz etc.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Sam Landsberger can * off seeing what he said about Beveridge playing favourites. It’s been reported Macrae needs to build his fitness up.

Maybe Sam should ask his dad for info before writing a story.

His dad hasn’t been at the club for some years.

 

[Golden_6]

Who was the young talent missing out?

Most of the talented young guys that were up to it played in their first year or so. Naughts, Baz etc.

It’s more that he played a few certain mature age spuds a lot of games that had no business being anywhere near our best 22 over guys that may been able to develop.

The 3 making their debuts don’t fall into this category. All have AFL level ability and have actually played at that level.

 

[Libbaaaa]

It’s more that he played a few certain mature age spuds a lot of games that had no business being anywhere near our best 22 over guys that may been able to develop.

The 3 making their debuts don’t fall into this category. All have AFL level ability and have actually played at that level.

This. Unfortunately the media is trying to push that Macrae is being left out for Bramble because Bevo likes his recruits, ignoring the fact that they don't play the same position and Bramble playing is almost a certain sign Dale is still hurt. Coffield and Harmes were recruited as best 23 players. The end of season cull last year was the first step to addressing the list cloggers who may have been getting a few too many games.

 

[dogwatch]

Generally Bevo has been consistent over his WB career with the motto "if they're ready I'll play them, even if they're young". He deserves credit for that much. So I'm not sure younger draftees were missing out if they had the talent.

That hasn't been the issue. It has been the low ceiling players (aka "list cloggers") who have stayed on the list too long, thereby depriving us of the opportunity to keep cycling younger state league players with potential through the list. Those low ceiling players we kept may well have been as good as any other fit player we had on our list for the job that was needed on any given match day. So giving them a number of game wasn't the real problem.

But if we'd been offloading some of these players a little earlier who knows, we might have found the next JJ, MBoyd, Morris, Dickson or Picken instead.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Such a strange piece by Landsberger.

Coach selects what he deems to be his best line up. Players that aren’t selected aren’t overly happy missing out.

Welcome to every f***ing professional and amateur sporting club in the world Sammy

I’d expect this from Barrett or Corn Hole trying to create an issue where there none, but Landsberger? His cred cops a hit with that rubbish.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Such a strange piece by Landsberger.

Coach selects what he deems to be his best line up. Players that aren’t selected aren’t overly happy missing out.

Welcome to every f***ing professional and amateur sporting club in the world Sammy

I’d expect this from Barrett or Corn Hole trying to create an issue where there none, but Landsberger? His cred cops a hit with that rubbish.

Is this change in Landsberger’s reporting anything to do with landing a pay TV gig and the need to produce headline items every program?

 

[TiAn_]

“This is a theme Kingsley picked up from Richmond's triple-premiership coach Damien Hardwick during his four years as an assistant at Punt Road. Never make the same mistake twice.”

Sometimes it feels like Bev’s theme is that Principal Skinner meme, “Am I so out of touch? No, it’s the children who are wrong.”

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Is this change in Landsberger’s reporting anything to do with landing a pay TV gig and the need to produce headline items every program?

That makes perfect sense. Such trash.

Dredging up potential selection issues from 2-3 years ago, throwing it in a bucket with non existent selection issues from this year and trying to serve the slop up as some insightful piece of sporting journalism. I’m embarrassed for him.

Can almost guarantee it’s severed any sort of journo/coach relationship he’s had with Bevo.

 

[Dazb86]

Who was the young talent missing out?

Most of the talented young guys that were up to it played in their first year or so. Naughts, Baz etc.

West, Lipinski, Young, Garcia

Roughead and Wallis hard done by years before that.

The likes of Gowers, Gardner, McComb, Trengrove and Hayes were all selected before the above.

 

[Foxman98]

West, Lipinski, Young, Garcia

Roughead and Wallis hard done by years before that.

The likes of Gowers, Gardner, McComb, Trengrove and Hayes were all selected before the above.

West is playing now and is the better for it, Lipinski is just an average footballer, Young couldn't get a game over a fat McGovern and Garcia has never been fit

 

[threenewpadlocks]

West, Lipinski, Young, Garcia

Roughead and Wallis hard done by years before that.

The likes of Gowers, Gardner, McComb, Trengrove and Hayes were all selected before the above.

You're better than this, surely?

West and Lipinski were clearly mismanaged to some extent, but it's inevitable that it's going to happen. Roughead and Wallis was so long ago not to be relevant. Gowers last played in 2020, and only got 3 games in that season anyway, so hardly relevant to mismanagement of players like Garcia that you're claiming.

Young will likely be delsited by Carlton and was blamed for some of their losses. Garcia was given a good run at it in 2021, after he was finally fit enough after an early fit enough career ... and has proven in two years since not to really be up to it since, with fully fit middling performances at AFL and VFL level. Should we try to not actually win games?

Gardner was given games that exceeded performance but it's because we knew that he had the athletic tools to eventually become good ... which he did, by becoming 7th in our 2022 B&F (which people seem to forget). He's already an overall more prodcutive career output than Young. Which we shoudl have dropped Gardner for?

Trengove long ago. Hayes' form actually justified selection, he was good for a half season or so.

You can pick better players surely!

 

[Charlie Bucket]

West, Lipinski, Young, Garcia

Roughead and Wallis hard done by years before that.

The likes of Gowers, Gardner, McComb, Trengrove and Hayes were all selected before the above.

You’re reaching with those players.

 

[Bulldogs85]

 

[ScragCity]

Generally Bevo has been consistent over his WB career with the motto "if they're ready I'll play them, even if they're young". He deserves credit for that much. So I'm not sure younger draftees were missing out if they had the talent.

That hasn't been the issue. It has been the low ceiling players (aka "list cloggers") who have stayed on the list too long, thereby depriving us of the opportunity to keep cycling younger state league players with potential through the list. Those low ceiling players we kept may well have been as good as any other fit player we had on our list for the job that was needed on any given match day. So giving them a number of game wasn't the real problem.

But if we'd been offloading some of these players a little earlier who knows, we might have found the next JJ, MBoyd, Morris, Dickson or Picken instead.

Its a trade-off DW. In the years we have made the grand final we have played ~40 players on our list. Remember how well Roarke Smith played for us in the 2021 finals series? Replacing him a few years earlier with a kid with more potential might have been better in the long term but it might have hurt us that year.

If you want to go deep in finals after the attrition of a full season, you need to bat deep in your list with mature bodies. Otherwise you need a lot of luck with injury.

 

[dogwatch]

Its a trade-off DW. In the years we have made the grand final we have played ~40 players on our list. Remember how well Roarke Smith played for us in the 2021 finals series? Replacing him a few years earlier with a kid with more potential might have been better in the long term but it might have hurt us that year.

If you want to go deep in finals after the attrition of a full season, you need to bat deep in your list with mature bodies. Otherwise you need a lot of luck with injury.

Yes I agree with that but I didn't consider Roarke a list clogger.

I doubt McComb or Hayes or Gowers was going to do what Roarke did in the 2021 finals.

I also point to the fact that we have some unlikely premiership players in Hamling and Biggs who we picked up cheaply as mature age players not getting games at other clubs. There can be a place for some such players.

The earlier discussion was whether Bevo was playing his favourites above young kids who should have been getting a game. Clearly he would play the kids if he thought they were ready (both physically and mentally), as he did with Dunkley, Bont, Bailey Smith, Daniel, Weightman, Naughton, Richards, etc all of whom had impact in their first year and generally stayed in the side once picked. But Bevo didn't do that with the likes of Busslinger, Clarke, Arty, JUH etc so I think his judgement with younger players has mostly held up well. (You could argue the point over Sam Darcy and Lewis Young perhaps.)

The point I was making was that some of Bevo's mature age favourites were kept too long. The three I've mentioned above all tried hard but it was clear pretty early on they all had a modest ceiling, even allowing for Gowers' first season when he leading goalkicker with 26 goals.

You might add Gardner to that list, especially in light of the fact that he is contracted right through to 2026 (!) but at some stage this year he'll no doubt be needed.

FWIW I'd have been happy if we'd kept Roarke for another season ... but maybe he was just too physically broken down to be persevered with.

 

[Testekill]

FWIW I'd have been happy if we'd kept Roarke for another season ... but maybe he was just too physically broken down to be persevered with.

Roarke was just too broken down to stay on as depth. He'd come back from a lay off and end up going off at half time due to injury in his return game.

 

[SPower]

Is Roarke playing somewhere this year.?
I think I missed it.
Chrs

 

[Testekill]

Is Roarke playing somewhere this year.?
I think I missed it.
Chrs

Port Melbourne along with Gowers and McComb.

 

[JTCWBFC]

Port Melbourne along with Gowers and McComb.

Need Jong & Hannan to make the gifted too games 5 pack.

 

[Dogs 13]

Need Jong & Hannan to make the gifted too games 5 pack.

Do not agree on Jong, was good in 2016, very unlucky to be injured