What to take out of the game?

[Mr Magic]

i take it you are saying with the above you would be open to useing a first rnd pick on a 20 22 yr old as long as he was of sufficient quality.
good to hear it.

its a little different but i keep coming back to harry taylor. drafted at 21 by geelong with pick 17 from the wafl. hes become very much a long term player for them.
the key point being made is its not where you get them from wafl sanfl vfl or the nd but their age.

like you i believe your early picks are primarily for your long term quality future but it does not matter where players come from as long as you attend to that detail.
if trengove turns out to be a player of quality the process we go thru is looking after the long term future.

we dont have to build just thru the nd magic when the opportunities arise to get young talent thru other means we should take those opportunities.

For mine it is all about player quality. I don't rate Taylor as highly as some and he coexists in a very strong team which helps him.

Having said that I do rate Barlow and when first saw him , playing AFL, he was a instant top 50 player. It just highlighted to me a lot of people clearly do not know what they are talking about for him not to be drafted earlier.

Likewise with Pod in Geelong. How he was not given a chance before given the lack of quality forwards in recent years is utterly beyond me.

Having said this the benefits of the draft and youth is still underplayed by most IMO.

The other thing is excluding trade value, you need players that fit within your premiership window. EG. There is no point in us chasing Cam Bruce for next year!!

 

[santa claws]

Thats what i would like to know. Even our Captain gave him a wrap for his first game back. Amazing, we win like last week and everyone is in raptures at how bright our future is, loose like today and the sky is falling and 10 have to be de-listed.

dont agree to often with you but i do here.
for sure he made some mistakes what did people expect.he was out bodied a few time found himself in the wrong position but in the main went okay. surely people are not writing this kid off after just one game this season and just one game of a grand total of 4.

oh and to finish win lose or draw ive seen enough of many of our players the vast majority who have been around for awhile to know at least 10 have to go.

for me giving blokes like gourdis browne rance etc a decent go is so we can find out if they can cut it at the level knowing they will have some poor games.

 

[MadTigerFan]

I'm no Gourdis fan boy but what did he o wrong today, beat his man on a number of occasions, got a reasonable amount of it and didn't turn it over. Our backs kept us in a game that 27 points flattered us.

Him being the reason for the Dees 2nd and 3rd goal of the game when we had the momentum really stands out for me. His 1st quarter was nothing short of atrocious.

 

[MadTigerFan]

dont agree to often with you but i do here.
for sure he made some mistakes what did people expect.he was out bodied a few time found himself in the wrong position but in the main went okay. surely people are not writing this kid off after just one game this season and just one game of a grand total of 4.

oh and to finish win lose or draw ive seen enough of many of our players the vast majority who have been around for awhile to know at least 10 have to go.

for me giving blokes like gourdis browne rance etc a decent go is so we can find out if they can cut it at the level knowing they will have some poor games.

Gourdis was stationary too often and has appalling awareness.

 

[aislegi]

Positives:

Losing to a side that has plenty of talent and could make a Grand Final in coming years (unlike, say, losing to Sydney)

Negatives:

Posters who think an article appearing in the media or Richmond having a win last week is the reason we lost this week

Posters who think everything will be okay just through the passing of time. This is a nonsense theory. A player who is hopeless and shows nothing (eg. McGuane) in his first season or two is likely, as we have seen, to be a player who is hopeless and shows nothing no matter how long you keep him. It's not time that's going to make us great. We will only ever be great if we can do as the great clubs have done, and recruit a welter of talented players.

 

[PHX]

I'm no Gourdis fan boy but what did he o wrong today, beat his man on a number of occasions, got a reasonable amount of it and didn't turn it over. Our backs kept us in a game that 27 points flattered us.

His first half was deplorable. He has concrete hands. He had no clue what he was doing and got burned by the demons forwards again and again. Has a lot of work to do.

But I'd still play him before McGuane and will understand if he gets another game next week.

 

[Mr Magic]

Id take the 20 year old every day of the week, he already has 2 years of development into him and the body size to compete straight away, and I keep telling you but you don't listen, 2011 draft is going be a very poor draft, there isn't many quality KPPs that will last to our First Round draft pick, Trengove fills a massive hole that we have in our list and he will still provide 10+ years of service.

I thought you might say that.

No problem, we clearly disagree and we also probably disagree on the general peak age of players in various positions as well. You no doubt favor ages more experienced than myself for various reasons I do not agree with!!

Nothing you have suggested has made me feel I am wrong and I am not sure Trengrove categorically is a 10 year player at the highest level. I rate Vickery clearly above Trengrove but that is just me. At the end of the day it is up to Trengrove to make it happen as he does not lack potential!!


Just going on a little further. This devalued perception of youth in my eyes is something clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong IMO have capitalised on by outsmarting other clubs in their list management as they have developed their teams.

This is why I push the youth band wagon so much because unless Richmonds moves away from the errors of this outlook towards youth in the past we will never win the ultimate prize. in the past the operators of other clubs have had a better understanding of the game regarding age and other aspects and have strategically outsmarted other clubs like Richmond. I hope as a supporter RFC has learn from its mistakes and does not compromise on youth particularly when the pointy end of your list is at the youngest level like your Martins etc..
Short term self interest can never get in the way of long term team success for RFC!!!

 

[Cathal Brugha]

Him being the reason for the Dees 2nd and 3rd goal of the game when we had the momentum really stands out for me. His 1st quarter was nothing short of atrocious.

How did the ball get down there and did he get the required support when it arrived?????? To hang a bloke out to dry for a 5 min team lapse in his first game for a year is idiotic. Rance's first 3 kicks were turnovers for instance....and don't get me started on McGuane. BTW Melbourne had 65 inside 50's FFS so how about blaming the midfield and half-forwards.

 

[Infamy]

Him being the reason for the Dees 2nd and 3rd goal of the game when we had the momentum really stands out for me. His 1st quarter was nothing short of atrocious.

You mean his first quarter of AFL since Round 22 2010?
What earth shattering information

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Vickery, Batchelor, Edwards and Foley were the only ones that impressed me today..........Batchelor in particular will be a player

Get Miller out of the side, it's now about development, bring in Posty or Griff.......just get Brad out

Hislop was credible in his attack on the footy

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

How did the ball get down there and did he get the required support when it arrived?????? To hang a bloke out to dry for a 5 min team lapse in his first game for a year is idiotic,

I'd like to add to that if I may.Dustin Martin the untouchable for example was pretty ordinary defensively at times and he wasn't alone either. I reckon the defenders have every right to be filthy on our mids.

 

[popcap]

Him being the reason for the Dees 2nd and 3rd goal of the game when we had the momentum really stands out for me. His 1st quarter was nothing short of atrocious.

This is very stiff. Having actually been at the game and watched Gourdis closely I can tell you that these two weren't exclusively his fault - the problem lies in our defence not having played together as a unit for long enough.

More than any other part of the ground, defence requires a cohesive 'team within a team' that fully understands and operates with a strict structure - there's no room for individual brilliance to paper over structural deficiencies ala forwards and midfield as mistakes directly lead to goals. If you look at the best defences in the AFL, and note their selection changes, they are nearly always exclusively forced by injury - and each has taken 3-4 years in the same system to become good enough to win a flag.

Until we can get all our boys on the park together for extended periods, we'll be playing catchup back there, and individual players will look average because of it. Gourdis / McGuane / Thursfield will, in the right back 6 with the right system, become good players. It's a question of luck with injuries and patience with their understanding of Dimma's organised defence.

 

[harimal12]

After the letter from the club asking where I was I thought I had better front up....The sun was shining the pie was hot and thats all

We are easily the 5 goals behind the Dees in development,we were soft and also seemed overawed.Was it all those legends there today whatever it is they never seem to be fired up and ready to play. I thought Vickery has improved, Jumpin Jack is no more just seemed to watch the game.

Brad Miller well I understand why he is there but shoudnt he be doing something.Browne made mistakes but he tried hard,Dusty put in all day he is very exciting to watch.

The backline struggled all day it was our mistakes that gave them at least 10 goals.

Melbourne just sweated on our handballs intercepted them easily and made us look so bad.

We are on the right track just need to unload a bit more dead wood get some more depth in there.Gourdis needs games to improve, not up to the pace of the game do we play him or keep sending him back to coburg.

Melbourne made us play their game all day scraggly horrible football.

Ok Dimma I will be back next week..I hope the pies are hot and Tigers come to play.

 

[Barx]

1. We lost the game because the other team had bigger bodies with more experience (Moloney, Jones, Sylvia in particular). That can only be improved by time and pre-seasons. Those bigger bodies forced turnovers and their transitions from defence to attack were the breaker.

2. Gourdis was nowhere near as bad as some are making out. In fact, the defensive shortfallings of our half forwards and midfielders were horrid (see 1. above).

3. Nahas was our worst in the first half. Better not to get the ball if you're going to run in circles and butcher your disposal/give it to a team mate under heavier pressure.

4. Browne is serviceable and tries hard but he needs help and Miller is not the answer.

5. Liked Sloppy's game.

6. We're getting there. There is no magic bullet - but we are on target and that target is sooner than many prepared to recognise.

 

[pawleesee]

drop Grigg..... He cannot hit a target with foot or hand, he cant run with anyone and has no speed whatsoever.

 

[HighFlyer]

But I'd still play him before McGuane and will understand if he gets another game next week.

I'd rather we played post and gourdis instead of McGuane. A 9-12 finish this year would be about where we are at. I've seen enough of McGuane to know that he is as good as he is going to get and it's not good enough.

 

[MadTigerFan]

drop Grigg..... He cannot hit a target with foot or hand, he cant run with anyone and has no speed whatsoever.

What and replace him with someone like Nason? no thanks

 

[pawleesee]

replace him with someone who has a bit of toe and can kick....

 

[MadTigerFan]

How did the ball get down there and did he get the required support when it arrived?????? To hang a bloke out to dry for a 5 min team lapse in his first game for a year is idiotic. Rance's first 3 kicks were turnovers for instance....and don't get me started on McGuane. BTW Melbourne had 65 inside 50's FFS so how about blaming the midfield and half-forwards.

If Gourdis actually showed something that made him look capable at this level then i'd have no problem with him being in the side, but he didn't.

I think we all just need to accept that none of our tall defenders or rucks are up to AFL standard. Rance and McGuane have played some good games from time to time, Thursfield played one great game on Riewoldt before doing his knee half a decade ago. Moore is our best tallish defender but he just plays a 3rd man type role, he doesn't really play man to man.

 

[MadTigerFan]

replace him with someone who has a bit of toe and can kick....

Yeah well we don't have that, so best we stick with Grigg.

 

[aislegi]

I think we all just need to accept that none of our tall defenders or rucks are up to AFL standard.

No; fans are not prepared to do that. Fans like to imagine that all our problems will be solved by the time they've had 100 games.

 

[THE MAGNET]

its a joke that shane tuck is not playing shits me how molony and silvia can win the ball and the main extractor is playing at coburg

 

[Strawbs]

We are where we deserve to be on the ladder. We're 5-8 goals off the 6th-8th sides and 12-15 goals off the top 4. We've knocked off Brisbane twice, North, Essendon and Freo in Melbourne. Throw in a draw with St Kilda and the picture is pretty clear. We lack depth; we still have a few to clear out and a few glaring holes to fill. Depth is an issue. We have too many short people in our team. The development of Vickery and Batchelor are real positives. I reckon it's easy to forget that Hardwick hasn't yet coached 40 games. He's on a steep learning curve too.

 

[tugga]

We are where we deserve to be on the ladder. We're 5-8 goals off the 6th-8th sides and 12-15 goals off the top 4. We've knocked off Brisbane twice, North, Essendon and Freo in Melbourne. Throw in a draw with St Kilda and the picture is pretty clear. We lack depth; we still have a few to clear out and a few glaring holes to fill. Depth is an issue. We have too many short people in our team. The development of Vickery and Batchelor are real positives. I reckon it's easy to forget that Hardwick hasn't yet coached 40 games. He's on a steep learning curve too.

I agree. We are 10th which is where we belong at the moment and don't be surprised if North and Saints overtake us in the next week and maybe the Dogs soon too.
After round 9 last year, people were saying we would not win a game for the year.
It is disappointing no doubt, but we have come a long way in 12 months. A staggeringly long way.

 

[Truetiger]

As dissapointing as it was to lose to melbourne lets face the truth. How many people on here really thought A/ We could make the finals in 2011? As seriously as good as it would be to make the finals this year we would be smashed most likely first up anyhow. Its about being in the finals for straight years not being there for one here or there and getting smashed in them either.