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Sam Walsh and Hugh McCluggage are still playing against Patrick Dangerfield and Dustin Martin.
This would not occur in a two tiered system which still retains the national draft.
Opinion What unpopular AFL opinions do you have? - Part 2
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Sam Walsh and Hugh McCluggage are still playing against Patrick Dangerfield and Dustin Martin.
This would not occur in a two tiered system which still retains the national draft.
Most clubs in the modern era move up and down the ladder every few years, the exceptions been Melbourne and Carlton. But all other clubs have played finals and dropped down the ladder.
Salary caps keep player movement to a minimum.
That is my option 2, but I think 12 is a better number.
Won’t happen though.
1. Teams in div 2 get much less sponsorship. They lose sponsors, and they have to accept less money from those they keep, because the returns of sponsoring a team in a lower profile comp are less.
2. Lower crowds, less gate. Big clubs can absorb the drop to the 2nd div for a time, and can spend there way out of it, your St Kildas and GCS clubs cannot, they get stuck in the bottom div. Lower profile comp, lower drawing teams , less interest.
3. TV deal is cut back. They are not going to pay the same primo coin to broadcast Div 2 games, if they broadcast them at all, and they are not paying the same for a 10 team div 1 deal either.
4. If the pretence of pro rel is to be maintained, the div 2 teams have to get the same cut of revenue as div 1 teams, so 10 teams generate the cash, but 20 spend it.
5. Draft. there is not a sport on the planet that has pro rel, and a draft, the 2 do not go together, for reasons already explained. If you dump the draft, you doom div 2 teams forever. AFL clubs cannot buy in relatively inexpensive but talented young foreigners to bolster stocks (aside from a few Irish). No player of serious talent goes to a div 2 team in an open market. Keep the draft, and you suck half the talent out of your premier football league. This talent heads straight back to Div 1 as fast as possible.
6. At least half your Div 2 teams, within a few years find themselves in a position where they are no realistic chance of ever getting into Div 1. At least half your Div 1 never goes down, and you have 4 or 5 clubs perpetually jumping between the 2.
They should relocate 2 Melbourne based teams, 1 to Tasmania and another to Canberra.
That would make the balance
8 VIC
2 WA
2 SA
2 QLD
2 NSW
1 ACT
1 TAS
Second one is to do something drastic (only example clubs)
Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Western Bulldogs/Ballarat, Geelong
West Coast, Fremantle, 3rd WA club
Adelaide, Port, 3rd SA club
Sydney, GWS
Brisbane/GC merger
Tasmania
That makes 16 teams
That would make the balance
8 VIC
2 WA
2 SA
2 QLD
2 NSW
1 ACT
1 TAS
Second one is to do something drastic (only example clubs)
Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Western Bulldogs/Ballarat, Geelong
West Coast, Fremantle, 3rd WA club
Adelaide, Port, 3rd SA club
Sydney, GWS
Brisbane/GC merger
Tasmania
That makes 16 teams
Well summarised. Leagues with relegation now would remove it if they could. The financial differences between levels are so much bigger than when relegation was devised.
A-league are just pure crazy to want relegation, but that’s no surprise
Nick holland would have liked to play his career in nicks era. No chopping arms? Perfect
Number37
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Agreed that it won't happen...but...the AFL could make shit loads more money having a 10 team comp...maybe in 20 years.
More money in overseas premier divs than the lower divs.
Keeping the salary cap in place would stop that happening here.
A div 2 grand final wouldn’t be as big as the div one grand final but it would carry a huge amount of interest as it would have the added weight of deciding who gets promoted. It could also be played at non Vic venues depending on teams involved.
Will never happen but there are some advantages to it
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Please, every top division premiership player would laugh at the thought of the two being compared.
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Beat me to it.
I do however think conferences could work if they weren't fixed and changed pending ladder position each year. Would be a fairer way to do the draw.
Salary cap and draft system keep the competition and standard of teams close. Other leagues with divisional structure around the world don’t have this. It would work as well as it does now ( which is far from perfect) even if the system was spread across 2 divs.
On your arguement about the earning capacity of div 2 clubs, half the league is being subsidised already because they don’t have the same power as the big clubs to draw sponsors, crowds or media attention. I’m not sure what the difference would be?
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Australians are seriously disinterested in second tier sport, perhaps more than any other sporting public.
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Just as a regular senior player from a top 4 club would rather not be traded to a bottom 4 club now.
If the salary cap ensured pay was the same across all clubs, the pros and cons of trading between clubs would be about the same as they are now.
Clubs in div 2 would have to sell the vision of building towards success/ promotion and the prospect of playing a more important role or position in a developing side. The same pitch a Carlton or stKilda would be pushing now.
That combined with the top kids going to the div 2 clubs through the draft would mean the system would hardly change.
We would get more competitive games for the bottom end clubs through the season though and far less floggings. Closer games might even make for better tv ratings. No one likes watching one sided beltings
Epic, the difference would be epic. Take your poorest performing clubs, then half it, then half it again. Then make up the difference by enhanced subsidies by the AFL (which means the 10 teams in the top division essentially).
I cannot think of a sport in the world, where there is anything other than a chasm between the top level and the second tier.
Closest is probably the English soccer leagues, but even there, second tier lives of transfer fees and subsidies. What is the second tier basketball league in the US? Dont know? no one else does either, and basketball in the US is 10 times the size AFL is here.
You seem to be imagining a 2 tier league, with fans sticking on, all feverishly supporting there team until that time when they get back into the top league. I think second tier turns into a level only marginally above current state league level, and I think this happens fast, 3 - 5 years. St Kilda looks like Williamstown within 5 years of being in the second division. How long is McGuire going to put up with Collingwood subsidising St Kilda so they can draft good players who languish in a second rate club in a second rate comp for several years, until they can get out and begin their real football career.
Promotion/relegation would be the death of the league
And everytime he looked at the medal he would think of all the shit teams that season we were the least shit
ossie_21
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This is true, but can also see why it is due to Australia being such a big & relatively unpopulated country. English football in particular has loyal fans & support on many levels. American college basketball is huge, gridiron not all that far behind.
There’s a lot of rivalry between universities (bragging rights, I guess) that flows from education to sports, as well as being the main pathway to the big time. Culture has a lot to do with it as well as location
Where in the world is there a two tier competition with a strong salary cap and draft system in place? I can’t think of one. AFL is also unique in having no talent drain to overseas comps. The talent has to stay in this league and there’s only so many spots.
With salary caps, draft and limited list spots it’s impossible for as big a gap to form as has happened in the EPL for example.
I’d go 2 up 2 down to ensure their is a strong chance of promotion for clubs that build over 3 or 4 years in the lower div.
And on your McGuire question, Collingwood and a few other clubs have already been subsidising StKilda and others for years and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Not much would change there
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Norm Landrover
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Unpopular Opinion:
Scrap the interchange/sub/follower bench for something else... I don't have any suggestions myself but there needs to be a better system
Scrap the interchange/sub/follower bench for something else... I don't have any suggestions myself but there needs to be a better system
Its not just possible but inevitable, its not just inevitable, it would be much worse than the EPL. EPL teams stock up on overseas players. This means good locals are forced into lower tiers. Even lower tier comps can have good imports. A lot of the Socceroos currently playing overseas are not in top divisions for instance. This means second tier English football is full time, and has imported, professional footballers in it.
None of this is true in Australian football. If you dont have a good CHF, and you dont have access to one in the draft, bad luck, your just going to have to go without. Top talent players are in short supply, and there is no where else you can get them. If you are managing a team in the top division, and you need a tried and tested CHF ready to go in senior footy, where do you look? If you said second division, bingo. Your on the money. Does a CHF good enough to be playing top division sit in Div 2 in the hope his club gets promoted, or does he leave.
The lack of numbers means there is a steeper gradient in Australian football. You go down 4 divisions in English football, and you are still talking full time professional football. You go down 4 divisions in Australia, and your talking what?
Each step down in Australia is a bigger step, and the talent gap is bigger.
This would be equally true of an AFL div 2.
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The draft is a small part of it. The AFL distribution would have to cease as well. Most clubs rely on it, and only a couple like West Coast would have the resources to realistically attempt a comeback.
In recent times it likely would have seen the Lions and Gold Coast relegated and no QLD team in the comp.
1. It can happen now, teams at the bottom of the ladder may bring less sponsors money. Profile of the comp is the job of the AFL, broadcasters and the clubs to promote.
2 Happens now, teams at the lower end of the ladder generally have lower crowds and the memberships drop.
3. Again, that is a job of the AFL negotiators. The can spin it as more games, bigger audience, prom/reg excitement blahblahblah
4. Happens now.
5. Sorry havent seen the reason why they cant go together. Bottom teams already suck the top kids, what changes from the norm? salary cap has a huge bearing on player movement and the restriction of players going to top teams.
6. Every club in recent history, except for Melbourne, Carlton and GC have moved up and down the ladder. Some more than others, but that is up to the clubs to run there organisation correctly. Rule of thumb with the top 8 now is two in two out, that gives you an idea of that clubs always move up and down.
We are not far off a two tier comp now, just bite the bullet and split it.
True, even though its been around for a long time.
VFA was a tiered comp and every Melbourne suburban league has a tiered system, its nothing new in this country.
The only serious argument against it is the financials, which i think can be managed and improved.
Why would the distribution have to cease?
They would be in AFL - Div 2 (or call it what ever name would be more palatable to people) , yes its a new, fickle market but what would have changed from the position they already are in?
I could argue they would have been a lot more competitive and won more games, possibly getting bigger crowds. Possibly had less floggings playing against similar teams around them as they rebuild.
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