What went wrong and how do we fix it for the run home?

[Thumpy]

West Coast are a long, long way ahead of us. Not only are they missing their power forward (look how we went without ours) and just about the best half forward flank in the comp, but they were a kick away from beating Collingwood on enemy turf. I've been trying to deny it for a while, but they are simply a much classier side than us. They may not have a pair of elite young inside mids, but they don't need them when there are simply so many others willing to pick up the slack.

Some comparisons I'd like to make.

Le Cras > Porplyzia. For all intents and porpoises, we no longer have an elite matchwinning LeCras equivalent.
Darling = Walker both will be elite full forwards for a significant period of time.
Kennedy > Tippett. More consistent and a better kick.
Hill > Lynch. Somehow this ex-WB hack has turned into one of the most damaging third talls around.
Hams > Callinan. We win this one easily, Callinan is all class whereas Hams is a ducking, sniping WAFL specialist.

Shuey < Dangerfield. Shuey's good but I don't see him as a matchwinner.
S Selwood < Sloane. Selwood racks them up but doesn't quite have Sloane's impact.
Rosa > Van Berlo. Both are bullocking, powerful but low skilled mids. Rosa however is better on his day though.
Thompson > Priddis. Priddis is a decent ballwinner sure, but Thompson has everything he does + a decent kick and good decision making.
Gaff > Mackay. I still hold hope for Mackay but its a bit of a worry that he's been surpassed by a second year player in his sixth(?) year.
Kerr > Vince. One is a premiership-winning matchwinner, the other is a front-running failure. Both have struggled with injury, but only one has fought through it.

Hurn > Reilly. For his elite kick and superior decision making.
Waters > Jaensch. Though he can't kick, waters does a good job of mopping up in the backline, and is a beast defensively.
Mackenzie = Talia. Both are some of the league's most promising KPB's, but I would back Talia to win out more often in a losing team.
Schofield ? Shaw. Bit early to call given it's only Shaw's fourth game. Both offer promise
Glass = Rutten. Both are champions of the game, but only one gets the accoldades, given his dual role as captain. Personally believe Rutten is better against a gorilla forward.
Butler > Doughty. Doughty's just too limited in the modern game defensively and particularly offensively.

Naitanui > Jacobs. While Naitanui isn't exactly consistent as a footballer, he doesn't get beaten in the ruck as easily as Jacobs.
Cox > McKernan. No brainer

I won't compare our respective depth in detail, but West Coast's easily outguns ours IMO.

Most of their team will be fit and ready for finals, and it would take a fair miracle for us to beat them.

While I agree with a lot of those suggestions, I'd say our top end is at least equal, if not slightly better, than their top-end players. They have a better spread, while we have plenty of liabilities like Jaensch, Douglas, Vince who are just aren't up to it. Their depth is significantly better, and that's the difference between the two sides. If we can find some good players to fill those gaps then we will be able to match them.

Also, I'd take Tippet and Walker over Kennedy and Darling any day. Tippett is a much harder match-up than Kennedy, if he could kick straight then he would be miles ahead. Perhaps the Walker/Darling comparison is a little unfair given Walker a couple of years more developed, but I'd say based on what they've showed Walker will turn out the better player.

 

[woopedazz]

Just got word from someone at the Crows that they underwent an extremely strenuous leg-weight regime on Thursday arvo and nobody had recovered by Saturday and most were still under the weather come Sunday.

They said over-training was the reason we lost and the players were completely spent and it shouldn't be held against them. Sando may have slightly misjudged the timing of that particular training by sounds of it.

 

[Elite Crow]

Cool, we should give them the week off then

 

[SellarStardom]

The same pattern of play in our other lost quarters and games. We can hunt for contested footy but spread poorly to cover and gain possession. A few times during the Nth Melb match 3-4 crows guys were garrassing the single Roos player who disposed over the top to someone free.

Hate to say it but a little bit, and I mean little bit, zoning defense wouldn't go astray

 

[FR0GGY]

Cool, we should give them the week off then

Bare in mind they've just had the weekend off.

 

[Schulzycrow]

We need speed across our HBF and wings to counter the switch which teams are putting on us due to too many getting sucked into the contest and not laying a hard enough tackle to stop it from getting out.

We got cut to pieces in the first half and no one could lay a tackle and they would switch it out and there would be free men galore. How many HTB frees did we get for the day?? We are slipping into old habits of not pinning a arm or going around the waist that is when we could lay a tackle.

Woopedazz if that is correct then that is three mistakes for the game. Players underdone shouldn't have played. It took Danger and Thommo a half to get going. One needed to be out of the middle-probably Danger. This leg weigh BS and Pets as sub.

Just can't have a backline of Talia, Rutten, Riley, Martin, Jaensch, Shaw and Dogga. Martin and Jaensch get dragged too deep and Martin can't use his run and MJ can't use his leg.
Hendo and Smith need to come back in two need to drop out, Martin to a wing, Jaensch to a wing, Dmac to a HBF. Johncock to a small defender.

Great to have tall targets to goal, but when one misses two shots from 35 and 25 out and another misses from 20 out and then another that saps our comeback then we won't win in September or July for that matter. Scoreboard pressure is king and when we were coming in the third, two vital misses cost us momentum and they counter. If we had landed even one of these North would have been just about ready to fold. Kick those early ones and momentum is with us. Love Tippo, but FFS these misses to the left are killing us. The only thing I felt confident with Smack was his goal kicking...

Walker needs to be leading at the ball, stationary he is too easy to beat, moving he is almost unstoppable. He is the man to build the forward line around, Tippett has to be the lead up marker.

Porps needs some time in the SANFL. Said it three or four weeks ago and apart from two quarters hasn't shown enough. Need him fit and firing for the finals.

For the first time for a while Jacobs got beaten at the centre bounces, we all got in too close in and they hit it out and spread. Need to keep guys on the outside of the contest. Need to be contested, but need to be smarter at the contest.

Enough of a rant. Bitterly disappointed in the great chance we blew today, thought we were past these sort of performances, but will be very interested in how the club responds as Richmond will be a tougher test than the Kangaroos.

 

[spenze]

What went wrong?

We missed so many tackles, so so so many tackles as the opposition was coming out of their 50 which allowed them the space and time to move the ball forward effectively.

We can start pointing fingers at players but as a team, those little 1%s weren't done well enough and we paid for it. Maybe it was the flu ( which we will find out next week) maybe it wasn't but we have been winning games based on team 1%s and they are the sort of things that stop the opposition running the ball down the ground.

I still can't believe an utter spud like Robbie Tarrant kicked goals on us ( shakes head)

 

[Hell Boy6669]

Walker clearly a better player than Darling

 

[CroCop]

Really disappointing and Sando didn't show a lot today.
Pets was his first mistake, should never have been the sub, his chasing and workrate in the forward line was sadly missing. Our small forwards didn't work defensively enough today and let their opponents break out of defence and carry the ball far too often. They can still run with their men but were far too lazy.Porps had a shocker and just doesn't put enough effective tackles on.
Speaking of tackles hasn't anyone heard of pinning the arms, the amount of times their players lifted their shoulders and arms over a tackle was depressing.Yes they were stopped but they were still able to release the ball to a team mate.
Brodie Martin is too small,not clean enough when going for a ball, too slow,telegraphs his intent and misses the target too often. Have I missed anything out....Brodie Smith is a far,far better option with his pace, kicking ability and size.
Johncock needs to come back into that defence to provide some run.Henderson also adds size and pace.

When we are down we revert to the Neil Craig playbook....Riley, Doughty esp need to move the ball quicker. Holding up the play and chipping the ball around serves no purpose at all except to pin us down in our own backline. Show some flair and attack by moving the ball on quickly.

Dougie needs to be a lot cleaner with his possessions and make the correct decisions. He kicked a lovely goal but hell he can be so indecisive. This can be due to the fact he finds himself under pressure because of his skill.

We have trouble with teams that spread and run hard to space.If a player is by himself on the field then there is a distinct possibility his man has run off and created himself as an option to receive an outlet pass.
Oh course he should be manning him up but if not at least run hard to man up on someone else further down the field who is loose or at the very least fill a hole and make it difficult for a leading target.
That's why we have the interchange to rest after you've put in an effort to chase someone down.
Hawthorn, Collingwood and now Kangaroos have all beaten us on the spread. It's work rate, covering for one another and discipline.
Really poor today, we looked brittle in defence, didn't run hard enough and never took our chances.
Need players who are prepared to take the game on, work hard and kick straight.

Brodie Martin Slow, you have got to be kidding me

 

[Cap]

Just got word from someone at the Crows that they underwent an extremely strenuous leg-weight regime on Thursday arvo and nobody had recovered by Saturday and most were still under the weather come Sunday.

They said over-training was the reason we lost and the players were completely spent and it shouldn't be held against them. Sando may have slightly misjudged the timing of that particular training by sounds of it.

what? that honestly doesn't sound true.

 

[Allefgib]

I think I've narrowed it down...

Tex:
4th in possessions
2nd in pressure acts
2 tackles!
1st in marks
Most tog.

That's not to mention 1st in score involvements.

Ripping and complete game by tex...just let liked it better when he did less and teammates did more...

 

[woopedazz]

what? that honestly doesn't sound true.

I've been given correct inside info on selection and injury in the past, why would I suddenly lie?

 

[Cap]

I've been given correct inside info on selection and injury in the past, why would I suddenly lie?

I'm not suggesting you are lying.

 

[skoobydoo]

When we are down we revert to the Neil Craig playbook....Riley, Doughty esp need to move the ball quicker. Holding up the play and chipping the ball around serves no purpose at all except to pin us down in our own backline. Show some flair and attack by moving the ball on quickly.


We have trouble with teams that spread and run hard to space.If a player is by himself on the field then there is a distinct possibility his man has run off and created himself as an option to receive an outlet pass.
Oh course he should be manning him up but if not at least run hard to man up on someone else further down the field who is loose or at the very least fill a hole and make it difficult for a leading target.
That's why we have the interchange to rest after you've put in an effort to chase someone down.
Hawthorn, Collingwood and now Kangaroos have all beaten us on the spread. It's work rate, covering for one another and discipline.
Really poor today, we looked brittle in defence, didn't run hard enough and never took our chances.
Need players who are prepared to take the game on, work hard and kick straight.

Agree. It was work rate yesterday. We played slow LAZY football for much of the game. When our midfield lapses we are completely vulnerable with the spread and run of opposition teams. The transition aspect, as it is called today is a huge achilles heel. I'm guessing NM planned their game around this yesterday. And it is not completely just a lack of our midfield domination, because NM had little difficulty in running the ball thru us, carving us up, from their backlines by sheer effort in running and making space. We tend to just amble around expecting the ball to come to us. NM looked good because we gave them an open paddock too many times. They showed us how the age old back flank switcheroo is still a weapon against non-responsive defensive effort. This part of our game is frustrating and yesterday from TV it showed a massive flaw.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Unless we have a collapse of biblical proportions we will finish in the top 4.

We are a long way behind Collingwood and the Eagles so we need to look long term not short term. Bringing in Brad Symes will not lift us into premiership favourites.

If they are fit, we should play our best 12 players; Rutten, Thompson, Reilly, van Berlo, Tippett, Mackay, Jacobs, Dangerfield, Petrenko, Sloane, Walker and Talia. That is three backmen, six midfielders and three forwards.

I would play Smith, Shaw, Jaensch, Henderson and either McKernan or Jenkins because they will be a key part of our future.

That leaves five spots to share between Doughty, Johncock, Porplyzia, Vince, Knight, Douglas, Martin, Tambling, Otten, Wright, L Thompson, Johnston, Lynch, Riley, Lyons and Brown.

As I may have mentioned three months ago, if we make the eight but are not really contenders then playing older guys who will never be influential players rather than putting games into the kids will come back to bite us on the arse.

This is surprisingly a pretty good post. I think what it highlights is that we are 3 or 4 quality players short of being a realistic threat this year. I reckon we have been carrying our bottom 3 or 4 players for many games this year and yesterday without our best 5 firing they were badly exposed.

 

[ltdamn]

I think I've narrowed it down...

Tex:
4th in possessions
2nd in pressure acts
2 tackles!
1st in marks
Most tog.

That's not to mention 1st in score involvements.

Ripping and complete game by tex...just let liked it better when he did less and teammates did more...

He was gun. I just wish more of his possessions had come in the forward 50, but he was being forced up the ground. Great thing is, even when he's got the ball on the wing, he still weaves around two players and hits a target 40 metres away.

 

[DJ75]

1. You can't go in to a game without any leg speed.
2. Petrenko is more important to our team structure than anyone realised
3. Our midfield depth is non-existent. Sloane, Thompson and Dangerfield take the majority of the midfield time and possessions outside of these there is very little of substance
4. Vince has developed in to a very lazy, front runner - defensive side zero
5. Jaensch is not a defender, would much rather see him on the wing/mid-field rotations
6. Douglas is a spud. How many times will he fall over in a game at the wrong time?
7. McKernan is lazy, dumb and shit. Goodbye
8. Van Berlo may be a good leader, but where is his football going? He plays midfield all game, but gets very little ball. He tags, but doesn't really stop anyone. What is his role really?
9. Wright, Porplyzia, Callinan, Vince, Douglas, Mackay etc... are a big bunch of very average midfielders
10. Porplyzia needs to go. He is super slow, his kicks are panicked short stabs to no-one and he is essentially finished. I wish it wasn't so, but this has been coming for a while. Callinan has gone well past him.
11. Our defensive work continues to be of concern. 3 times we have been assaulted by speed on the break - Western Bulldogs nearly beat us doing it, Collingwood did us on it and now North
12. Henderson, Smith & Johncock would be useful.

My preferred team going by what I saw;
FB: Johncock Rutten Shaw
HB: Smith Talia Reilly
C: Mackay Thompson Jaensch
HF: Lynch Tippett Petrenko
FF: Callinan Walker Sloane
1R: Jacobs Dangerfield VB
INT: Henderson Doughty Lyon Sub: Vince

 

[Vader]

When we are down we revert to the Neil Craig playbook....Riley, Doughty esp need to move the ball quicker. Holding up the play and chipping the ball around serves no purpose at all except to pin us down in our own backline. Show some flair and attack by moving the ball on quickly.

I don't entirely disagree with your comment here.. but how much of this is due to Reilly/Doughty and how much is due to the complete stagnation ahead of them down the field? How are they supposed to move the ball quickly when all of their team mates are stationary, covered by their opponents - and nobody is running or leading?

 

[BACCS]

what? that honestly doesn't sound true.

Cos it isn't, just trying to stir up the Craigy diehards. Thought it was pretty obvious...

 

[Cap]

Cos it isn't, just trying to stir up the Craigy diehards. Thought it was pretty obvious...

ahh, saw me coming.

 

[Mattrox]

In the limited game time I saw, I certainly didn't think Reilly was the worst player. He seemed to get posessions at important times but also seemed to have limited options to deliver it to. I agree with you Vader.

 

[Lawrst]

Didn't realise your thoughts needed their own thread over the others on the north game

 

[woopedazz]

Cos it isn't, just trying to stir up the Craigy diehards. Thought it was pretty obvious...

Yeah, no. It actually wasn't and it is true.

If someone else has people they talk to at the club ask them what happened on Thursday to confirm it.

 

[DJ75]

Didn't realise your thoughts needed their own thread over the others on the north game

Ha ha Clearly they do.
Didn't think it really fitted under any other thread since it goes across most of the other ones.

 

[Vader]

In the limited game time I saw, I certainly didn't think Reilly was the worst player. He seemed to get posessions at important times but also seemed to have limited options to deliver it to. I agree with you Vader.

Reilly was actually one of our better players last night. I'm certainly not going to suggest that Doughty fits in that category, though his game was nowhere near as bad as his many haters would have us believe. Doughty was better than McKernan, Shaw, Martin, Jaensch, Porps, Pets and probably a few others as well, better.. but far from good.