Wheel of Time

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Things I liked about Episode 8:
  • Meeting Lews Therin Telamon, and seeing the Age of Legends, in the pre-credits sequence.
  • The arrival of the Seanchan, in the closing sequence.
  • Killing off the disfigured pygmy ogier imposter - hopefully to be replaced by the true Loial in S2.**
Things I hated about Episode 8:
  • Everything in between, which was a complete Rafe's World disaster from start to finish.
** Loial is my favourite character in the books, just ahead of Matt. The fact that Rafe turned him into a disfigured pygmy imposter is one of the things I detest most about Rafe's World. What he's done with Matt is only marginally less appalling.
 
Vader said:
Things I liked about Episode 8:
  • Meeting Lews Therin Telamon, and seeing the Age of Legends, in the pre-credits sequence.
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Tbh this is the worst part of the episode. It disregards the majority of the lore around the war of power. It refers to him as the dragon reborn. Erm he was the dragon. Alot of things wrong.
 
Belnakor said:
Tbh this is the worst part of the episode. It disregards the majority of the lore around the war of power. It refers to him as the dragon reborn. Erm he was the dragon. Alot of things wrong.
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I caught that bit too (Dragon Reborn vs Dragon).

Yes, it had a lot wrong. Even so, it was still a highlight compared to the rest of the (spectacularly awful) episode.
 

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Vader said:
I caught that bit too (Dragon Reborn vs Dragon).

Yes, it had a lot wrong. Even so, it was still a highlight compared to the rest of the (spectacularly awful) episode.
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to me it just highlighted they have no ****ing idea what they are doing.

like some of the changes I like. Like Lan as a character is much more realistic and grounded.

the garbage with the war of power just shows they are making changes for the hell of it.

the only reason lews therin launched the attack was they were going to lose. They had no idea the potential counter stroke from the dark one. Yet this cold open it happens in a nursery as some kind of fire side chat where lews is like lolz I might go fight the dark side and the female counterpoint says well it will doom the male side of the true power. Which wasn’t known. It’s just crazy why they would make such a change.
 
Belnakor said:
to me it just highlighted they have no ******* idea what they are doing.

like some of the changes I like. Like Lan as a character is much more realistic and grounded.

the garbage with the war of power just shows they are making changes for the hell of it.

the only reason lews therin launched the attack was they were going to lose. They had no idea the potential counter stroke from the dark one. Yet this cold open it happens in a nursery as some kind of fire side chat where lews is like lolz I might go fight the dark side and the female counterpoint says well it will doom the male side of the true power. Which wasn’t known. It’s just crazy why they would make such a change.
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Agree with every word you've written... and yet it's still superior to the dreck which followed!
 
The Seanchan entrance was weird. Why the frack would they be conjuring a tsunami? As far as they know, the people of Rand Land are waiting for their return so to wipe out an entire town to announce their arrival makes no sense.

Tarwin's Gap battle was idiotic and the power scene was just nonsense. You can't expect me to believe that a handful of women that were not able to make (or have not yet become) Aes Sedai can kill all those Trollocs by forming a small circle. Bitches please. They shouldn't have even been able to form a circle or even channel that much power unless they had a sa'angreal or were all holding an angreal. Not to mention, why the hell would you not have them attack the Trollocs first instead of losing what was probably the entirety of the Fal Daran army (and one would assume a large portion of the Shienaran army) with a pointless cavalry charge. Killing off Agelmar and Ingtar makes no sense (especially denying Ingtar his chance at redemption).

Padan Fain stealing the horn ruins the eventual battle at Falme unless they somehow Deus Ex Machina getting it back. Also, why no horn or Dragon Banner at the Eye? You have so many people searching for the horn for centuries and you expect me to believe it was in Fal Dara the entire time and word did not get out? Come on man. Do you take us all for a bunch of idiots?

If they decided to kill off Loial there will be massive backlash so he survives somehow.

I did like this guy they got playing Ishamael although I have always pictured him slightly younger. I thought he did a great job. It is just a shame the whole thing was a load of crap. Someone on Reddit called it a low rent version of the final battle with the Dark One and they aren't wrong. There was just so much they ****ed up here that I can't even be arsed listing them.

One positive is thank the light they didn't go with The Eye of the World as the Dark One's prison.


The season really needed 10 episodes to try and flesh things out better and give us a reason to care about any of the characters and the story. Perrin has come across incredibly poorly and if I were a non-book reader I would not care one tiny bit about him. Last weeks episode gave me hope that they were starting to move in the right direction again but this finale was hilariously bad. A complete and utter butchering of the lore for no reason I can think of other than to satisfy Rafe's ego.

I'll give season 2 a go but I am not holding high hopes for it.
 
I did wonder why they felt the need to channel a tsunami, to clear an empty beach, which represented an unopposed landing. I didn't mind it though, because it made the point that these people are badasses - and a major force to be reckoned with. Sure, it didn't make sense - but unlike the other changes from Jordan's World to Rafe's World, it didn't destroy the books' entire Lore.

As for Fain stealing the Horn of Valere... It's obvious that this is the reason why they'll be chasing him in S2, instead of chasing the dagger to save Matt. Different maguffin, same result. Your points about it being hidden in an obvious place, which would have resulted in it being found centuries earlier is of course a Rafe failing (one of too many to list).
 
I’m actually surprised by the reactions to 8. I actually enjoyed episode 8 more than 5, 6 and 7. I didn’t hate 5, 6 and 7 but they weren’t my favourite episodes. I’m not sure what it was about 8 I preferred, it’s weird since so many people hated 8.

I really don’t have any desire to rewatch the first season though, which probably says more about it than anything. There are shows I will watch over and over again no matter how many times I’ve seen the shows, Wheel of Time unfortunately isn’t one of them.
 
What a shit show from start to end. The Age of Legends flashback had such potential with Lews Therin and Latra. Instead LTT portrayed as an arrogant fool rather than desperate. Plus the splitting of titles between them. Watcher of the Flame? GAGF.

Agelmar changed from a Great Captain to a fool. The ‘Eye’ and Moraine knowing nothing about it. No Green Man. Though given how short Loial is they’d have stuffed that.

The alternate life vision with Joiya. An obvious fan throw out from Egwene’s raising to Accepted, but books fans are largely going to not like it.

The battle of Fal Dara. There’s nothing to like about it.

Mat back to Shadar Logath. Moraine letting Rand go. And now it’s up from 4 Ta’veren to 5 with Nynaeve. Moraine blocked.

Obviously no one is tempering Rafe’s ego. The seemingly never ending changes for changes sake.

About all I liked was that goat kissing Uno.

I’ve waited decades for Wheel of Time to make it to screen and to see it being done so badly, not because they can’t adapt things, but so many are just changed against what the books have them as - not just literal, obviously some of those would be too hard/costly, but against the general idea/theme the book is trying to get across.
 
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I did get my wife to watch the show, after her not ever getting around to reading the books (she's read LoTR and a bit of other fantasy, more a reader of horror, though a fellow fantasy / sci-fi fan for shows / movies). She didn't think much of the 1st series. After hearing my sighs, grunts and various other sounds of dissatisfaction she said the books must be better. She's started listening to The Eye of the World on Audible and it only took her to get through the Prologue (LTT/Dragonmount) to go with the show should have opened with that. She's only up to them getting ready to leave The Two Rivers, but said the show didn't spend enough time giving any depth to the characters before they left.

Did they not screentest any of it with those who hadn't read the books? Along with all the other flaws in the show already previously mentioned, listening to her feedback it seems to be also that Rafe knowing the books, has made that mistake that you can make all those wholesale cuts and people will be able to fill in the blanks with their knowledge. Fine, except for all those they are trying to capture as an audience who haven't read it.
 
re-reading from start (15 or so years ago made it up to book 7 or 8), currently about to end book 5.

The biggest issue for me is Nynaeve. Why the **** would a legend like Lan is fall in love with such a ****wit.

Also, the main characters (Rand, Matt, Elayne, Aviendha etc) are all around 20. Let me tell you something about 20 year olds, no matter which world, or which culture, if they're travelling a lot with people they somewhat like, they are doing a looooottttt more ****ing than they actually do in the books.
 

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Happy Mastenator said:
I saw in the first post or two in this thread that she improves when hooks up with Lan. Hopefully that is the case and my opinion changes.
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Nynaeve has real character growth in the later books. I didn't think much of her early on, but by the end she's one of my favourites.
 
Andre said:
What a sh*t show from start to end. The Age of Legends flashback had such potential with Lews Therin and Latra. Instead LTT portrayed as an arrogant fool rather than desperate. Plus the splitting of titles between them. Watcher of the Flame? GAGF.

Agelmar changed from a Great Captain to a fool. The ‘Eye’ and Moraine knowing nothing about it. No Green Man. Though given how short Loial is they’d have stuffed that.

The alternate life vision with Joiya. An obvious fan throw out from Egwene’s raising to Accepted, but books fans are largely going to not like it.

The battle of Fal Dara. There’s nothing to like about it.

Mat back to Shadar Logath. Moraine letting Rand go. And now it’s up from 4 Ta’veren to 5 with Nynaeve. Moraine blocked.

Obviously no one is tempering Rafe’s ego. The seemingly never ending changes for changes sake.

About all I liked was that goat kissing Uno.

I’ve waited decades for Wheel of Time to make it to screen and to see it being done so badly, not because they can’t adapt things, but so many are just changed against what the books have them as - not just literal, obviously some of those would be too hard/costly, but against the general idea/theme the book is trying to get across.
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I don't even mind changes, but feels like every change just massively simplified the character dynamics and relationships into far more cookie cutter generic shlock than the books. So disappointing.
 
I don't know if anyone is watching Halo but the actor playing Padan Fain is in episode 2 and played a very unhinged character which can give some insight into the kind of Fain we may see later on in the series.
 
So Rafe Judkins, fresh off lots of book fans unhappy with the (unnecessary) changes, decides the solution for season 2 is not to do a Mea Culpa, park his ego and stop the unnecessary changes, because the book isn't reflective enough of the current world (and here I was thinking it was set in a made up world with magic and monsters). Instead it's to double down. With 14 books to get through, clearly what's needed is to spend time on Alanna's two Warders bonking each other as well as her. That Green warders doing each other as well as their Aes Sedai wasn't in the books and will take time that could be spent on things actually in the books is irrelevant for Rafe. Woke must win. I'm fully expecting that the Rand - 3 girls relationship will either be scrapped (as one guy and 3 girls is so paternal) or the girls will end up sleeping together as well.

At least the one culture that's been geographically isolated from the rest of the world since the Age of Legends, so they are clearly of similar appearance, the Aiel, is staying the same. After all how idiotic would it be, when there are so many 'Uh Rand you look an Aiel, you know that group of people know one else looks like' through the series. Clearly having Aiel remain close to the books would be the most important not to change. Wait, what's that? Rafe has decided being true with the books (after already making Rand a red head) is less important than imposing his views on casting choices with his pick for Aviendha? I'm shocked, shocked! Well not really.

At least I know I won't need to bother getting a Prime subscription for Season 2.
 
gaskin said:
I love Nynaeve. I hated her first time around but once I started re-reading I came to really like her.
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Just finished book 8. Can see she’s slowly starting to change. Let’s see how book 9 goes.

Think I must have gotten further along in series in my first read through many years ago than I realised. Distinctly remember Matt being in seanchan land and meeting empress who is the one min saw he’d marry. Hasn’t happened yet. If it does actually happen…
 
Andre said:
So Rafe Judkins, fresh off lots of book fans unhappy with the (unnecessary) changes, decides the solution for season 2 is not to do a Mea Culpa, park his ego and stop the unnecessary changes, because the book isn't reflective enough of the current world (and here I was thinking it was set in a made up world with magic and monsters). Instead it's to double down. With 14 books to get through, clearly what's needed is to spend time on Alanna's two Warders bonking each other as well as her. That Green warders doing each other as well as their Aes Sedai wasn't in the books and will take time that could be spent on things actually in the books is irrelevant for Rafe. Woke must win. I'm fully expecting that the Rand - 3 girls relationship will either be scrapped (as one guy and 3 girls is so paternal) or the girls will end up sleeping together as well.

At least the one culture that's been geographically isolated from the rest of the world since the Age of Legends, so they are clearly of similar appearance, the Aiel, is staying the same. After all how idiotic would it be, when there are so many 'Uh Rand you look an Aiel, you know that group of people know one else looks like' through the series. Clearly having Aiel remain close to the books would be the most important not to change. Wait, what's that? Rafe has decided being true with the books (after already making Rand a red head) is less important than imposing his views on casting choices with his pick for Aviendha? I'm shocked, shocked! Well not really.

At least I know I won't need to bother getting a Prime subscription for Season 2.
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Yeah, the Aiel thing really has me scratching my head. Being true to the books isn't even really an issue here, it's that an integral part of the narrative is that the Aiel have distinguishing features. If you cast Rand as black then you'd have to cast all the Aiel as black to preserve the narrative structure.

The sex stuff comes across more fetishy and pervy (ironically in the way 60's/70's fantasy and sci-fi is) than being about representation also.
 
I'm not far off finishing Knife of Dreams which is Jordan's last book. It seems to have quite a few climax's at the end here, in terms of closing out various story lines that have been bubbling away. Will be interesting to see if notice much of a difference when move onto Sanderson's three books.
 
Happy Mastenator said:
I'm not far off finishing Knife of Dreams which is Jordan's last book. It seems to have quite a few climax's at the end here, in terms of closing out various story lines that have been bubbling away. Will be interesting to see if notice much of a difference when move onto Sanderson's three books.
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When Jordan got sick he definitely devoted all of his energies to getting the series to the finish line despite being in increasingly poor physical shape.
 
Richard Pryor said:
When Jordan got sick he definitely devoted all of his energies to getting the series to the finish line despite being in increasingly poor physical shape.
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Felt like last few books have just been drifting, really noticeable coming to the end of this one that all the main storylines (Perrin (
rescue of Faile
) /Elayne (
Queen of Andor
) so far, expect Matt (
Marry Tuon
)/Rand (
whatever the F he's doing
)/Egwene (
win siege of white tower
) do as well in the last 10% i've got left) are coming to a head, hopefully they will be streamlining and merging moving forward.
 
Happy Mastenator said:
Felt like last few books have just been drifting, really noticeable coming to the end of this one that all the main storylines (Perrin (
rescue of Faile
) /Elayne (
Queen of Andor
) so far, expect Matt (
Marry Tuon
)/Rand (
whatever the F he's doing
)/Egwene (
win siege of white tower
) do as well in the last 10% i've got left) are coming to a head, hopefully they will be streamlining and merging moving forward.
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Has been ages since I read them but from memory Sanderson kicks the plot into overdrive and gets through it at a breakneck pace.
 

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