When does the blowtoch get applied to John Longmire?

How much of the blame for Saturday's disaster lies with Longmire?

  • 0% the players were entirely to blame

    Votes: 35 15.5%

  • 25% it was mostly the players who failed

    Votes: 75 33.2%

  • 50% a little of column and a little of column b

    Votes: 86 38.1%

  • 75% most of it falls on Longmire's shoulders

    Votes: 14 6.2%

  • 100% the buck stops with the coach

    Votes: 16 7.1%
  • Total voters
    226

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BRWB said:
Like with Leon Cameron's career, or with Chris Scott in his first year - it's very hard to assess Longmire's coaching until the COLA concessions have fully washed out.

Maybe this year we get to see if John can coach on a level playing field.
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This tjread isn't about Leon and we're very happy with him. Cant see any reason why the Swans wouldn't be either. They've made finals forever and multiple GF's and flag. Perhaps Beveridge will do as well, who knows?
 
Longmire's style of 'rolling maul then bomb it to Franklin' is s***house and the sooner we see the back of it, the better.

But despite the two grand final losses (after finishing top), I can't see a coach with Longmire's record having a blowtorch applied to him just yet. Remember that Malcolm Blight lost three grand finals with Geelong before he won back-to-back flags with Adelaide. If Bigfooty existed in 1995 we'd be criticising him just as vehemently as Ross Lyon - 'The game has gone past him and his attacking style with no defence. Has shown not just twice but three times that he cannot go all the way.'
 
Can't see them beating West Coast next week either in Perth. Serious firepower for the Eagles, could be 0-4 with terrible percentage. GWS the next week. Serious alarm bells should be ringing for this side right? They are clearly in a flag window with full 22 players ready to perform, right?
However, if you look past the half a dozen senior star players, it's clear that the Swans are giving their list a rejuvenation.

13 Hawks remain in their best 22 from 2012 grand final day. 15 from 2014.

For Sydney, it's 8 from 2012 and 13 from 2014. The Dogs also have 13 from their 22 who played on the last game for them in 2014, but with a lot more youth in 2014 who have been building up.

So while everyone acknowledges Hawthorn is beginning their rebuild and turning over their list, there seems to be this myth that Sydney are still full of 22 senior players all mature aged and with the flag window wide open.

Last night, Dawson was on debut, Hayward, Fox and Newman were playing their 2nd game, Florent and Foote in their 3rd game.
Marsh was lining up for his 10th game. Allir his 15th game. Naismith his 16th game. Mills his 25th. Hewett his 26th. Jones his 34th. Sinclair his 46th.

That's plenty of inexperience. Add in Heeney (38 games) and Papley (20) injured and it's almost inarguable that Sydney are trying to push games into youth - they are developing.

There's still some turnover to go. Jack and McVeigh are former shadows of themselves, with this probably being partly acknowledged by Kennedy being the new captain. And of course Sydney would be thinking they can get carried to finals by Kennedy-Hannebery-Buddy-Parker, but it's up against the odds to win games when you play that sort of youth. I think if they get enough players back in time they could sneak in but it is going to be a development year based off the facts. Any success is a bonus.
 
AG said:
In regards to this thread, I wouldn't mind a new coach but he's contracted until 2020 I think. He has benefited from a decent list and hasn't really evolved as a coach. There isn't really a plan B when we are losing and my main frustration is our lack of forward structure when we aren't playing well. Having said that, he has coached a team to a premiership and a top 4 spot every year other than his first season.

I still expect us to play finals this year so his job isn't in danger and he will most likely see out his contract. Our best 22 is still worthy of playing finals once everyone is fit and firing.
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I like Horse as a coach, but not sure finals are a certainty. You're winless with West Coast in Perth next week and then GWS. Could very well be 0-5.
 
RUNVS said:
Lose next week and we will miss the top 8. Needed 12 wins to make the 8 in 2016 and in order to achieve that (if we lose next week) we would have to win 12 of 18 games which is bloody tough.
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You play Carlton twice. There's two wins.
 
Longmire has constantly had Sydney one of the top tier sides in the comp so from that aspect he deserves respect and has credits in the bank. That being said Sydney need to watch the season carefully and make sure his defensive style of game doesn't see them become the next Fremantle. I don't personally think that's where Sydney is going just that with the way the game is changing at present any club would be foolish to totally ignore it and show blind faith.
 

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VictorianCrow85 said:
Longmire has constantly had Sydney one of the top tier sides in the comp so from that aspect he deserves respect and has credits in the bank. That being said Sydney need to watch the season carefully and make sure his defensive style of game doesn't see them become the next Fremantle. I don't personally think that's where Sydney is going just that with the way the game is changing at present any club would be foolish to totally ignore it and show blind faith.
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One thing Longmire has over Lyon is he is genuinely okay with trying young players, and not sticking with the same players that have been good in the past but are now declining. He is willing to drop a senior player if he thinks there is a younger player who is better.
 
RUNVS said:
One thing Longmire has over Lyon is he is genuinely okay with trying young players, and not sticking with the same players that have been good in the past but are now declining. He is willing to drop a senior player if he thinks there is a younger player who is better.
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Agree completely.
RUNVS said:
I think once McVeigh or Rampe comes back we can have Heeney and Mills in the midfield. That should help somewhat.
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Not so much on this one, well Rampe is awesome, McVeigh seemed cooked and more a liability last year to me. Has been a superb player just think his time was up last year. Maybe he'll prove me wrong on that though, he wouldn't be the first player to do so.
 
Swans have done a remarkable job to stay around the money for as long as they have. But all good things come to an end. Their list has holes everywhere, and the real impact of the Franklin and Tippett mega deals is now being felt as it is apparent that their depth is rubbish. They've had a remarkably good run with injuries in recent years, but now that injs are starting to bite it is clear that they don't have the depth to cover. Rebuilding year for them. Just keep playing all the young blokes that played last night , get games into them this year and next, with a view to returning to finals action in 2019-2020
 
AG said:
We obviously haven't been better than Geelong or Hawthorn but I can see why we're included in the discussion as arguably the 3rd best team of the current era. Swans have played in the most finals and GFs since 2005? Depends what period of time you are comparing the Swans.

We really needed to win the flag last year to be compared at all.
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Since 2005, a competition powerhouse on field. 2012 was a bit of an end of an era, with 2013-2017 bringing in the new guard. And that new guard has excelled. 2014 was bitterly dissapointing, and Sydney didn't have the unsociable approach to match Hawthorn at their peak, let's face it, who did?

2016 was the one that got away. Taking in injured players to the GF was the difference in the end, but the core group is there for a flag up until 2018 I'd say. 0-3 isn't good, but it's not panic stations. I still think they're top 4 quality.

Of the league dominant sides since 05, Hawthorn leads. Geelong second, Swans third.
 
O'Rourke Awakens!! said:
Truly great teams win when it counts. Losing two grand finals - TWO - is a disaster.

And no - making it there is not good enough
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Rubbish. Making it is underrated. Getting your side to 3 GF in 5 years is top shelf. Sydney were never going to beat Hawthorn in 14, that's when Hawthorn peaked, that was like Brisbane in 03 - 22 players playing skilled, intense, unstoppable, unsociable football. From the minute Roughead flattened Hannebury, Sydney didn't have the hardness to come back.

2016 was the wasted one for Sydney. They should've won that by 6 goals - bad selection saw 2 unfit players picked, and again, lacked the unsociable style to rough up a young WB side. But getting to a grand Final, is impressive. Very very good sides get there. Elite sides win.
 

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When does the blowtoch get applied to John Longmire?

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