When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[Fadge]

If he is chasing success, he isn't going to get it at Carlton, they are at least 3-4 years away.

People have been saying that for two decades!

 

[bigm386]

Cripps is fine and so is McKay. Casboult has a chronic knee issue. Murphy Betts Curnow aren’t the future. TDK SPS Dow O’Brien need to play and in there right spots.

I liked Stocker for his first game as a mid. Good signs

Soap the reality of it is Teague and Co will not drop Murphy, Betts, Curnow and Casboult.

What I am struggling to understand is why 9 posessions last week by Williams is acceptable yet change his name to Dow and he would have been dropped.

Why is it ok for Casboult to have 0 impact for 18 months and still have a game? McGovern is a lock when fit and hasn't played a good game since he joined our club. Surely you change the structure if we don't have the cattle to play 3 talls?

Why is it ok for Murphy to jog around and be unaccountable?

We go into every game with 18 players at best due to our putrid selection commitee and set horrible standards for our kids as a result.

Not to mention when kids do play they are forced out of natural positions to make way for the same old, e.g. Kennedy on a wing.... Waiting for Matt Owies to go into the ruck next.

We are very good at dropping kids and battlers (Gibbons, Newnes etc) and never make the hard calls.

Honestly to me the only senior player (30 y.o approx) that stands up for us is Curnow, he has his limitations but at least he cracks in. Jones maybe a bit stiff but his bad is so so bad.

 

[Robertio]

People have been saying that for two decades!

You don't think we'll be successful in 3 or 4 years?

 

[Soapy V]

Soap the reality of it is Teague and Co will not drop Murphy, Betts, Curnow and Casboult.

What I am struggling to understand is why 9 posessions last week by Williams is acceptable yet change his name to Dow and he would have been dropped.

Why is it ok for Casboult to have 0 impact for 18 months and still have a game? McGovern is a lock when fit and hasn't played a good game since he joined our club. Surely you change the structure if we don't have the cattle to play 3 talls?

Why is it ok for Murphy to jog around and be unaccountable?

We go into every game with 18 players at best due to our putrid selection commitee and set horrible standards for our kids as a result.

Not to mention when kids do play they are forced out of natural positions to make way for the same old, e.g. Kennedy on a wing.... Waiting for Matt Owies to go into the ruck next.

We are very good at dropping kids and battlers (Gibbons, Newnes etc) and never make the hard calls.

Honestly to me the only senior player (30 y.o approx) that stands up for us is Curnow, he has his limitations but at least he cracks in. Jones maybe a bit stiff but his bad is so so bad.

Totally agree and it's a major issue amongst playing group. Teague has his favourites and reasons but won't change

 

[bigm386]

Totally agree and it's a major issue amongst playing group. Teague has his favourites and reasons but won't change

I am really worried players will leave at the end of the year because of this.

Thinking SPS.

 

[Soapy V]

I am really worried players will leave at the end of the year because of this.

Thinking SPS.

He's pretty much gone I'm told

 

[faible]

He has never been a good defender.

 

[joy division]

I think the best they can do in the next 3-4 years is reach a Semi Final. As an Essendon fan I'd take that in a heart beat.

 

[bigm386]

He's pretty much gone I'm told

Well Teague should be congratulated if that is the case because we will be turning a top 10 pick into a 2-3rd rounder at best who will perform at another club.

We are a rabble

 

[Bestbird]

Interesting that on the weekend Carlton had the third oldest team playing. Pretty much the same average age as West Coast 26 y 45 day, Carlton 26 y 6 d

AFL Tables - Melbourne v Carlton - Sun, 16-May-2021 3:20 PM - Match Stats

As a comparison

Player over 30
Carlton 5 - Betts, Casboult, Curnow ,Jones , Murphy
West Coast 3 - Kennedy, Nicnat, Redden

Players under 23

Carlton 5 - Cottrall, Fogarty, Parks, Stoker, Walsh
West Coast 6 - Allen, Brander, J Jones, Petruccelle, Witherdon , B Williams

 

[freddy mercury]

People have been saying that for two decades!

True. They haven't won a flag since the mid 90s. Bang on about every other club and not having success. They have been terrible since then.

 

[bigm386]

Interesting that on the weekend Carlton had the third oldest team playing. Pretty much the same average age as West Coast 26 y 45 day, Carlton 26 y 6 d

AFL Tables - Melbourne v Carlton - Sun, 16-May-2021 3:20 PM - Match Stats

As a comparison

Player over 30
Carlton 5 - Betts, Casboult, Curnow ,Jones , Murphy
West Coast 3 - Kennedy, Nicnat, Redden

Players under 23

Carlton 5 - Cottrall, Fogarty, Parks, Stoker, Walsh
West Coast 6 - Allen, Brander, J Jones, Petruccelle, Witherdon , B Williams

The frustrating thing for Carlton supporters is Betts, Casboult, Jones and Murphy being out of the side would not be dissapointing to most. Curnow I rate purely because he gives effort.

 

[Ambrosia]

Interesting that on the weekend Carlton had the third oldest team playing. Pretty much the same average age as West Coast 26 y 45 day, Carlton 26 y 6 d

AFL Tables - Melbourne v Carlton - Sun, 16-May-2021 3:20 PM - Match Stats

As a comparison

Player over 30
Carlton 5 - Betts, Casboult, Curnow ,Jones , Murphy
West Coast 3 - Kennedy, Nicnat, Redden

Players under 23

Carlton 5 - Cottrall, Fogarty, Parks, Stoker, Walsh
West Coast 6 - Allen, Brander, J Jones, Petruccelle, Witherdon , B Williams

In Carlton’s defence only Jones and Curnow are any good the others wouldn’t get a game in most sides.

 

[Great8]

You don't think we'll be successful in 3 or 4 years?

Define success.
Do I think Carlton can play finals in the next 3-4 years? Yes, if everything goes right, have a couple of elite players in key positions but also a lot of junk still.
Do I think Carlton can break into the top 4 and push for a flag in 3-4 years? I’d say no at this stage. I think they are a long way off still
So in summary I think maybe 7th or 8th with the odd finals win is probably the best they will achieve with this lot but things can change rapidly

 

[Arr0w]

Imagine getting ahead of yourself and belittling other teams to make yourself feel better only to be much worse than you actually anticipated.

Lol, Carlton


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Compared to Essendon?

 

[Arr0w]

Yep. Massive win for the Bombers. Cost them nothing and they got pick 8 from the blues for Saad.

Can’t win them all though. And Saad has been decent for them (notwithstanding his contract $$$).

Williams contract would hurt them more though I reckon.

Surely not passing judgement on 9 games

 

[Robertio]

Define success.
Do I think Carlton can play finals in the next 3-4 years? Yes, if everything goes right, have a couple of elite players in key positions but also a lot of junk still.
Do I think Carlton can break into the top 4 and push for a flag in 3-4 years? I’d say no at this stage. I think they are a long way off still
So in summary I think maybe 7th or 8th with the odd finals win is probably the best they will achieve with this lot but things can change rapidly

Well put mate, success is playing regular finals, ultimate success is wiining the big one.

 

[Great8]

Surely not passing judgement on 9 games

If Williams isn’t fit, don’t play him.
He just looks so terrible out there currently

 

[Fadge]

You don't think we'll be successful in 3 or 4 years?

IF (and it's a massive IF) Cripps and Charlie return to their very best, Carlton's top 5 (add Walsh, Weitering and McKay) is as good as any club in the competition.

But if they both return to their best, how do you retain them all given the $$$ you have tied up in Martin (who I rate, but also misses more footy than he plays), Saad and Williams?

Who is going to come good from your crop of other high-ish draft picks? Dow, O'Brien, Stocker, Cuningham, etc. Maybe one or two will, but I haven't seen it yet and you'd hope that if anyone at Carlton had any confidence in them, they'd be played ahead of the older brigade, which they aren't. They've all been on the list for long enough.

My opinion - if a lot goes right, they will have a fleeting moment in the finals without contending for a flag, similar to what they did in 2009 to 2013 (but for a shorter duration). Peak at 6th to 8th, might sneak a finals win or two.

That is as far as they go in the foreseeable future, before their next rebuild and we're then talking 10 years down the track. But I suspect they are more likely to continue to miss finals, or fail to win a final, than they are to genuinely contend for a flag in the next handful of seasons.

So, what is your prediction? Let's see who gets closer...

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Soap the reality of it is Teague and Co will not drop Murphy, Betts, Curnow and Casboult.

What I am struggling to understand is why 9 posessions last week by Williams is acceptable yet change his name to Dow and he would have been dropped.

Why is it ok for Casboult to have 0 impact for 18 months and still have a game? McGovern is a lock when fit and hasn't played a good game since he joined our club. Surely you change the structure if we don't have the cattle to play 3 talls?

Why is it ok for Murphy to jog around and be unaccountable?

We go into every game with 18 players at best due to our putrid selection commitee and set horrible standards for our kids as a result.

Not to mention when kids do play they are forced out of natural positions to make way for the same old, e.g. Kennedy on a wing.... Waiting for Matt Owies to go into the ruck next.

We are very good at dropping kids and battlers (Gibbons, Newnes etc) and never make the hard calls.

Honestly to me the only senior player (30 y.o approx) that stands up for us is Curnow, he has his limitations but at least he cracks in. Jones maybe a bit stiff but his bad is so so bad.

Who is Casboult keeping out?
The only player Murphy is possibly keeping out considering you don’t want players played out of position is SPS and I don’t know if he has actually ever played decent footy as a forward.... never kicked more then two goals in a game.
Betts is probably only playing because we have 5 starting forwards missing and even then he has kicked 4 more goals then our third leading goal kicker.
Yes Curnow is keeping young midfielders out but he has been our second best midfielder this season and if you want to see the real problem have a look at the VFL game last week where those young midfielders were just run of the mill VFL level. They don’t need a game, they need to improve. That’s their problem.
Young players like Stoker, Parks, Cottrell, Fogarty are getting their chance and so will anyone who deserves it.
I keep hearing that we are playing players out of position and that we need to be giving more opportunities to the young players but you can’t play, SPS, Setterfield, Dow and Stoker and then put them all in the midfield. Sure take out Curnow then fit 4 kids into his one role in the midfield.
Just playing kids for the sake of it does absolutely nothing, that’s why so many people play 10-100 games and never actually take the next step. ATM it looks like we are making sure the kids actually earn it so that they have the tools but more importantly the mental strength to actually be players.

 

[citizen-erased]

Sort of feel for Saad, poor bloke left Gold Coast, who gave him his first crack. Went to Essendon, hoping for success didn't get it. Moved to Carlton seeking better performance, finals etc, not going to get that there either. Wonder how long he has left at Carlton before he requests a trade?

Obviously there for success, not money. Money has nothing to do with it.

jokes aside, i wonder if he regrets the move.
We were a bit of a basket case in 2021 with the coaching stuff being ambiguous, Dan Richardson clipping him, the hubs, etc.
Plus the cover of Daniher and Fantasia leaving.
get why he left

He'd be doing what he likes to do with us this year
Hind on one flank (we'd still recruit given McKenna left), Saad on the other.
And he wouldn't have our nuffy fans booing him (though he did half bring it on himself going to Carlton).

 

[Rich01]

Surely not passing judgement on 9 games

Yep, I would prefer Hind and Pick 8 than Saad. Totally understand you wouldn’t want to be making the call right now.

However I could see Blues supporters justifying the trade if they managed to extract a flag with a highly performing Saad during his tenure there though. That’s the big hope and it’s achievable, but right now it looks like they have ponied up a war chest for two above average half back flankers (that’s also a little generous on one of them at the moment).

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

IF (and it's a massive IF) Cripps and Charlie return to their very best, Carlton's top 5 (add Walsh, Weitering and McKay) is as good as any club in the competition.

But if they both return to their best, how do you retain them all given the $$$ you have tied up in Martin (who I rate, but also misses more footy than he plays), Saad and Williams?

Who is going to come good from your crop of other high-ish draft picks? Dow, O'Brien, Stocker, Cuningham, etc. Maybe one or two will, but I haven't seen it yet and you'd hope that if anyone at Carlton had any confidence in them, they'd be played ahead of the older brigade, which they aren't. They've all been on the list for long enough.

My opinion - if a lot goes right, they will have a fleeting moment in the finals without contending for a flag, similar to what they did in 2009 to 2013 (but for a shorter duration). Peak at 6th to 8th, might sneak a finals win or two.

That is as far as they go in the foreseeable future, before their next rebuild and we're then talking 10 years down the track.

So, what is your prediction? Let's see who gets closer...

I don’t get the fascination with Saad, Williams and Martins contracts. After this season they will probably average out at about $1.6-1.7mil PA for the three. Maybe $200k PA more then they are worth at most.

 

[Fadge]

I don’t get the fascination with Saad, Williams and Martins contracts. After this season they will probably average out at about $1.6-1.7mil PA for the three. Maybe $200k PA more then they are worth at most.

Maths not your strength?

 

[Arr0w]

If Williams isn’t fit, don’t play him.
He just looks so terrible out there currently

That I agree with