When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[banzai]

Basically them, Walsh and McKay which prevented us from being bottom 2

Take out the best 4 players of any midtable team and they are bottom 2 though. Does Teague get any credit for how good those 4 players are playing? Walsh is one of the best 21 year olds weve seen, Mckay shits in the Coleman, Weitering so consistent at a high level, all under Teague. Cant just be assumed they would all be that good under any coach.

Carltons defensive systems are awful, but Richmond were poor defensively for about 7 years until it turned for Dimma. Melbourne currently have the best defensive system in the league, but it took Goodwin time to do it. Why wasnt he able to create this 18 man defence in his second year? Surely when Carlton chose Teague they knew he wouldnt be a great coach in his second season and it would take time.

 

[The Casey Cat]

When does the Carlton board accept r responsibility?

Good question. My god what a disgrace. STILL an absolute disgrace. Fair enough if they want a review and ultimately want to change from Teague but don't do it during the freaking season when you're still fighting to make finals. You seriously couldn't even make this shit up.

 

[Mt Isa Mustang]

It's been terrible timing for a lot of Carlton's problems in the past few years during the rebuild.
People like to look at the "66 game rebuild" and jump straight to the fact that we should've been pushing finals immediately out the other side of those 66 games. Who knows, with a Brisbane-like injury run over that time, maybe we would have, but it couldn't have gone further the other way.
Putting coaches aside, Marchbank was supposed to be that 3rd tall defender who could float around intercepting and push up the wing on attack. He's played 48 games in 7 seasons and none in the last 2 years.
Curnow out of action for 2 years. Docherty out of action for 2 years. McGovern was recruited to play the 3rd tall forward role next to Charlie and Harry. The three of them have played 7 full games together, all of them in 2019. Highly prized recruit Kemp missing 2 years of footy and development and only debuting last week while being forced to play as a KPD in both the VFL and in his AFL debut due to injuries to all our tall players.
Haven't been able to establish a consistent ruck to gel with the mids. Kreuz in and out of the side. Levi filling in for multiple roles and in/out of the side. Pitto recruited to fill Kreuz's spot - in/out. TDK, young and developing and also in/out constantly.

You mention Cuningham. Most will laugh and say who, but he's just never had a clean run at it. The most he's been able to string together in 6 seasons, is 8 full games (injured in the 9th) at the start of last year.
Newman's missed a year and half of footy.
Fisher was looking the goods in 2019 and developing beautifully. Missed just over half the games last year and will be the same again this year.

Development has been an issue during our affiliation with the Northern Bullants VFL side. We finally get our own stand alone VFL side with Luke Power looking after player development and the VFL competition has been decimated the past 2 years thanks to COVID. While everyone is in the same boat there, having those players developing in the VFL and pushing for selection is more important to the younger sides and those trying to push up the ladder, especially sides with consistent injury worries.

Our most consistent players over all that time, in terms of consistently getting on the park, have probably been SPS (despite being out of favour this year), Cripps, Jones, Walsh, Plowman, Weitering, Ed Curnow and Levi, and probably Murphy up until this year.
Murphy and Levi retiring. SPS mooted as possibly moving back to WA. That leaves maybe 6 guys next year that have consistently played footy together over the past 5 or so years.

Despite all this, we've still managed to not get blown away (apart from the Port game), win 8 games and still be in with a slight sniff of the 8 with 3-4 rounds to go, while all the peripheral stuff has been going on with Teague being under the pump, the review, the constant negative media articles questioning the big name recruits, pressure to sign Cripps/McKay, a constant 12-16 players on the injury list, the talk of carrying Murphy to 300, cancer.

Talk about a perfect storm. My kingdom for a good run with a consistent 22 and a coach that lasts more than 2-3 years!

Maybe don’t recruit players who are injury prone.

who would have predicted that Williams, Martin, Newman, marchbank, Kemp would miss games…

especially when Krueger, docherty, Curnow, Cunningham etc.. were already on the list.

 

[Thrawn]

especially when Krueger, docherty, Curnow, Cunningham etc.. were already on the list.

To be fair on Doc, he's been extremely unlucky. Prior to two ACLs and cancer, he's been relatively injury free.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Feel for Teague. Big power brokers want him gone and he is toast.

2 season in covid effected seasons is a tough ask for a new coach.

With a midfield consisting of 1 very good player, question is not how badly he has coached but how well he has coached to get them to where they are.

He's being thrown under the bus. He absolutely has deficiencies and can improve with the right defensive structures (needs the right assistants).

 

[Birugilababi]

Maybe don’t recruit players who are injury prone.

who would have predicted that Williams, Martin, Newman, marchbank, Kemp would miss games…

especially when Krueger, docherty, Curnow, Cunningham etc.. were already on the list.

Krueger is on Geelong list .

 

[Rich01]

Teague goes to a club which wins a flag as assistant, stock rises as Clarko/Lyon lose playing group at Carlton finishing bottom 2 2022-23.

Teague seen as genius who made such a crap side competitive.

Just a possible scenario.

Yep. Follow in the footsteps of Leppa. That might be his level though.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Maybe don’t recruit players who are injury prone.

who would have predicted that Williams, Martin, Newman, marchbank, Kemp would miss games…

especially when Krueger, docherty, Curnow, Cunningham etc.. were already on the list.

It's a fair enough point to a certain degree. Not sure I would go as far as to say they were injury prone, but it was clearly a bit of a strategy to target a few players who were highly rated but came cheap because they were injured at the time. It certainly hasn't paid off on some of them (Marchbank being the obvious one).
Kemp was recruited while recovering from an ACL, but had been touted as a top 3 talent prior and was even in the discussion to go number 1. Recovered well from the ACL and nobody could've predicted that he'd then do an ankle. That doesn't make him 'injury prone'. He's just had two long term injuries.
You could certainly argue that we've targeted a few too many players that have had injury concerns though.
Not sure that Cuningham had injury concerns when recruited and Doc certainly didn't.

 

[Rich01]

Lyon is certainly talking like a person who has got the coaching job. Carlton ITKs seem to think he’s been spoken to as well and are just waiting for the announcement.

Feel sorry for the way Teague has been treated here, but understand the need to under the guise of a proper process. We have seen coaches lash out at the board the week before they have been sacked a few times, so the writing is on the wall.

Lyon will be good for the Blues in the short term at the very least. It sounds like players are driving a culture which isn’t overly healthy. He will weed out those who don’t want to adhere to his new regime pretty quickly.

Sayers will get the result he always wanted, and followers will point blindly to the review as a way of justifying it. The fitness and recruiting departments should be under just as much scrutiny, so the true test of the review will be to see if Russell and Austin’s team avoid the cull.

 

[WillHayward]

The whole narrative around Sayers troubles me.
I've heard on here and by others who have worked with him how's the big dog. The boss man..the big swinging dick..his own man..makes all the right calls.

At the same time he's been on the Carlton FC Board for ten years and wants to take zero responsibility for the calls made in that time.

If he's such a hero and big tough guy why was he such a gutless wonder bum sniffer going along with everyone else on the Carlton Board the last decade?

Doesn't add up .

 

[WillHayward]

Seems like Lyon has been told he's got the job UNLESS Clarko wants it.
Clarko given two weeks to decide yes or no.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

The whole narrative around Sayers troubles me.
I've heard on here and by others who have worked with him how's the big dog. The boss man..the big swinging dick..his own man..makes all the right calls.

At the same time he's been on the Carlton FC Board for ten years and wants to take zero responsibility for the calls made in that time.

If he's such a hero and big tough guy why was he such a gutless wonder bum sniffer going along with everyone else on the Carlton Board the last decade?

Doesn't add up .

But who's to say that he hasn't been pushing back? There's been talk of factions and a split board at Carlton in the past. He might have been the one trying to go in a different direction, but always outvoted and outnumbered. We just don't know.
Now he gets the chance to do things his way. Let's see how that goes. We need someone who's the big dog and takes charge. Apparently he's good at getting the best out of people. If he can get everyone rowing in the same direction, it will go a long way to starting to fix the culture around the joint.
I don't think you just fluke 8 years as CEO of PwC.
I like that he wanted the review before taking over the reins, so he knows what he's up against and can hit the ground running. MLoG wasn't perfect, but he achieved a bit during his time: redevelopment of Princes Park, clearing of historic debt, a plan in place to move away from pokies revenue, getting more home games at the MCG, starting an AFLW team, ending our partnership with Northern Bullants and getting a stand alone VFL side.
It's given Sayers a good base and hopefully the review was done properly and identified other areas that need serious attention to move forward.

 

[Ambrosia]

Seems like Lyon has been told he's got the job UNLESS Clarko wants it.
Clarko given two weeks to decide yes or no.

You do wonder if Clarko is just squeezing clubs for more money with the guise of taking a year off

 

[zeggie]

Watch him sniffing Eddie's bum is pretty gross.

If he's such a hero and big tough guy why was he such a gutless wonder bum sniffer

What is it with you and bum sniffing?

 

[Gavin Excell]

Seems like Lyon has been told he's got the job UNLESS Clarko wants it.
Clarko given two weeks to decide yes or no.

Source?

 

[faible]

What is it with you and bum sniffing?

 

[Metalcrusher]

What is it with you and bum sniffing?

He likes Rugby?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Sayers will get the result he always wanted, and followers will point blindly to the review as a way of justifying it. The fitness and recruiting departments should be under just as much scrutiny, so the true test of the review will be to see if Russell and Austin’s team avoid the cull.

Would be crazy to get rid of Austin after one off-season. Thought he did really well despite initially overpaying for Saad. Had a great record at the Dogs. Durdin and Carroll with third round picks is great drafting. Would be disappointing to see him go.

 

[LittleG]

Would be crazy to get rid of Austin after one off-season. Thought he did really well despite initially overpaying for Saad. Had a great record at the Dogs. Durdin and Carroll with third round picks is great drafting. Would be disappointing to see him go.

IF you guys do get rid of Austin, we will happily have him back.

 

[le dominateur]

The changes for the week are interesting.
Dow and SPS omitted.

Talk of Dow wanting to join his brother at Richmond. Not sure how I feel about that.

You can have them both for a packet of chips, 2 of the softest players going around.

 

[Rich01]

Would be crazy to get rid of Austin after one off-season. Thought he did really well despite initially overpaying for Saad. Had a great record at the Dogs. Durdin and Carroll with third round picks is great drafting. Would be disappointing to see him go.

It would be a big call no doubt. One year probably isn’t enough of a sample size to cull deep.

But in the interests of assessing the entire football dept it should be looked at.

Williams coming across with the intent of playing as a mid looks like a mid-assessment on his capabilities. Cost a bucket load of cash as well.

Saad looks ok, but the future has been mortgaged with pick 8 given for him. I wouldn’t think a club would give that pick 8 for him this year. Club gave up a lot to get him.

Fogarty looks a nothing trade. Time will tell if he ends up depth or list clogger. Geelong haven’t missed him and I’m not sure if he’s best 22 for the Blues.

Cripps 6 year deal looks too long given his output the last couple of years. Hope he rebounds.

Not sure about your call on Durdin and Carroll being great drafting at this stage. Haven’t seen anything of them at senior level to suggest that. This isn’t a knock on them at all. An assessment of these two is too difficult with lack of exposed form. Need to wait a couple of years at least.

McDonald as a rookie hasn’t worked out, but injury could not have been foreseen.

Signing McKay has been a positive.

Signing Betts and Murphy at the end of last year for another season may also be seen as slightly dubious as they took games away from youngsters (not so much the case with Betts). Betts probably the right call in the end, Murphy I’m not 100% sure about. Both players probably didn’t give the team the lift towards finals that the coach and list management team probably would have been hoping for this year.

While time ultimately will tell on this, I’d say the above results would indicate Austin and his team did not get the results expected from their plans over the past 12 months.

 

[Metalcrusher]

It would be a big call no doubt. One year probably isn’t enough of a sample size to cull deep.

But in the interests of assessing the entire football dept it should be looked at.

Williams coming across with the intent of playing as a mid looks like a mid-assessment on his capabilities. Cost a bucket load of cash as well.

Saad looks ok, but the future has been mortgaged with pick 8 given for him. I wouldn’t think a club would give that pick 8 for him this year. Club gave up a lot to get him.

Fogarty looks a nothing trade. Time will tell if he ends up depth or list clogger. Geelong haven’t missed him and I’m not sure if he’s best 22 for the Blues.

Cripps 6 year deal looks too long given his output the last couple of years. Hope he rebounds.

Not sure about your call on Durdin and Carroll being great drafting at this stage. Haven’t seen anything of them at senior level to suggest that. This isn’t a knock on them at all. An assessment of these two is too difficult with lack of exposed form. Need to wait a couple of years at least.

McDonald as a rookie hasn’t worked out, but injury could not have been foreseen.

Signing McKay has been a positive.

Signing Betts and Murphy at the end of last year for another season may also be seen as slightly dubious as they took games away from youngsters (not so much the case with Betts). Betts probably the right call in the end, Murphy I’m not 100% sure about. Both players probably didn’t give the team the lift towards finals that the coach and list management team probably would have been hoping for this year.

While time ultimately will tell on this, I’d say the above results would indicate Austin and his team did not get the results expected from their plans over the past 12 months.

Yip.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

It would be a big call no doubt. One year probably isn’t enough of a sample size to cull deep.

But in the interests of assessing the entire football dept it should be looked at.

Williams coming across with the intent of playing as a mid looks like a mid-assessment on his capabilities. Cost a bucket load of cash as well.

Saad looks ok, but the future has been mortgaged with pick 8 given for him. I wouldn’t think a club would give that pick 8 for him this year. Club gave up a lot to get him.

Fogarty looks a nothing trade. Time will tell if he ends up depth or list clogger. Geelong haven’t missed him and I’m not sure if he’s best 22 for the Blues.

Cripps 6 year deal looks too long given his output the last couple of years. Hope he rebounds.

Not sure about your call on Durdin and Carroll being great drafting at this stage. Haven’t seen anything of them at senior level to suggest that. This isn’t a knock on them at all. An assessment of these two is too difficult with lack of exposed form. Need to wait a couple of years at least.

McDonald as a rookie hasn’t worked out, but injury could not have been foreseen.

Signing McKay has been a positive.

Signing Betts and Murphy at the end of last year for another season may also be seen as slightly dubious as they took games away from youngsters (not so much the case with Betts). Betts probably the right call in the end, Murphy I’m not 100% sure about. Both players probably didn’t give the team the lift towards finals that the coach and list management team probably would have been hoping for this year.

While time ultimately will tell on this, I’d say the above results would indicate Austin and his team did not get the results expected from their plans over the past 12 months.

Williams at the very least is a gun half back. Needs to do a massive pre season if he wants to justify his contract. Happy enough with the move as long as the salary cap is kept in check. That we have retained Harry and are chasing Cerra tells me our cap is okay for now.

We shouldn’t have gave up 8 for Saad last year, nothing has changed. He has been in our best 5-7 players this year and should play good footy for a long time yet.

Retaining Betts and Murphy was probably out of his hands. Agree with your assessment.

I expect Austin to be retained and rightly so.

 

[Rich01]

Williams at the very least is a gun half back. Needs to do a massive pre season if he wants to justify his contract. Happy enough with the move as long as the salary cap is kept in check. That we have retained Harry and are chasing Cerra tells me our cap is okay for now.

We shouldn’t have gave up 8 for Saad last year, nothing has changed. He has been in our best 5-7 players this year and should play good footy for a long time yet.

Retaining Betts and Murphy was probably out of his hands. Agree with your assessment.

I expect Austin to be retained and rightly so.

I would be disappointed if the review didn’t suggest improvements to both the List Management /Recruitment and Fitness/Conditioning teams.

Both have shown deficiencies in the last few years that are just as important in identifying and actioning as the coaching staff.

 

[Metalcrusher]

I would be disappointed if the review didn’t suggest improvements to both the List Management /Recruitment and Fitness/Conditioning teams.

Both have shown deficiencies in the last few years that are just as important in identifying and actioning as the coaching staff.

At one stage we had 18 players ... 18!!! On the injury list ... tha'ts either really, really unlucky or ......