List Mgmt. Where are they now? (ex suns)

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King goes after Greenwood :D
“I’m hard on senior players, if they don’t lead the way then what are the young kids going to follow? They’re going to learn bad habits and it’s actually going to put you back further than it should,” King continued.

“So Hugh Greenwood for me is a significant piece. You get this guy as a senior core player, no Ben Cunnington, no Jed Anderson, he’s going to go in and replace them.

“Well, he’s got to show the work rate post a lost clearance or a won clearance that shows Jason Horne-Francis, ‘okay, now I’ve got to switch on and I’ve got to chase or do whatever’.

“Some of the efforts to defend or get involved in the game after it left the clearance were embarrassing.

“Actually, it’s not embarrassing, it’s counter-productive to everything you’re trying to set up.
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“That’s where I’m critical of the senior core players.

“Does he have the courage, David Noble, to make a statement with one of those guys? Because that’s the core of the problem.”
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“Does he have the courage?”: The “statement” King wants to see Roos coach make after Round 3 loss

“It’s counter-productive to everything you’re trying to set up.”
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The Kings Ransom said:
View attachment 1356986

That 2016 draft was a pretty shit one to load up on wasn't it.

Simpkin and Florent are decent but they're not really All-Australian type level players on exposed form.
English just making his way


If we went Ainsworth, Bowes, Ridley, Simpkin / Florent you'd probably be satisfied.
Brodie's incapacity to improve his running and Scrimshaw's incapacity to mentally buy in were flaws that may/may not have been identifiable pre-draft.
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They were pretty well known within drafting circles.

Simpkin slid because of a broken leg. Both Simpkin and Florent should have been top 10.
 
Brodie had a career night tonight. Another player that Dew didn't show faith in and has gone on to do better things. Dew doesn't know how to utilise big bodied midfielders (Lyons, Brodie)

Sick of Dew playing favourites. Time to find a decent coach that can nurture talent.
 
OB11 said:
Brodie had a career night tonight. Another player that Dew didn't show faith in and has gone on to do better things. Dew doesn't know how to utilise big bodied midfielders (Lyons, Brodie)

Sick of Dew playing favourites. Time to find a decent coach that can nurture talent.
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classic.
 
RowellAnderson12 said:
Will Brodie ended up with 26 touches with 61% time on ground…..

Unbelievable a 23yo mid can still only play just over half a game. Could easily be on the chopping block if mundy js fit next week.

Brodie played his role but damn he sits on the bench all game
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I doubt Will's on any chopping block
Just add him to the list
And to continue the theme
I still don't understand how Mabior Chol is in any way an upgrade on 2MP?
Other than being popular with every kid under 15
 
SandyToes said:
I doubt Will's on any chopping block
Just add him to the list
And to continue the theme
I still don't understand how Mabior Chol is in any way an upgrade on 2MP?
Other than being popular with every kid under 15
Click to expand...

It's taken Longmuir 1 pre-season to work out that Brodie is playing his best when he is played in bursts and rested on the bench often. Dew is too focused on player weaknesses and not maximising their strengths.
 
SandyToes said:
I doubt Will's on any chopping block
Just add him to the list
And to continue the theme
I still don't understand how Mabior Chol is in any way an upgrade on 2MP?
Other than being popular with every kid under 15
Click to expand...
More hit-outs, more tackles… less games, less goals, and less money. Chol seems happy to use his body more, is a great jump at the ball and has more speed, but Peter is playing ok at the Bombers and is a better mark. Can’t say I’m sad or happy one way or the other. It is what it is.

As for Brodie, good on him. Was he going to get a game over Touk, Rowell and Anderson? Probably not. Also was on a fair bit of money. I hope he does well at Freo.

Suns were happy to offload salary for both of them. Blame previous contract management on that for wrecking our cap space. Also, AFL increased our list size and gave extra picks, which added to the problem rather than helped it.

Ultimately, if King, Luko and Rankine all re-sign due to freed up money, it all comes out in the wash (kind of, maybe).
 
SandyToes said:
This is true
Is Chol on less than 2MP?
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I think the rumour was Chol accepted a deal worth $400,000 a year with us. Peter Wright is reportedly on $500,000 a year at Essendon.

Is 2MP's output worth $100,000 more per year than Chol's? I don't think so when you look at the important stats.

2022 stats so far
Mabior Chol: 3 games, 6 goals, 3 behinds, 28 hitouts, 5 tackles.
Peter Wright: 3 games, 9 goals, 2 behinds, 18 hitouts, 1 tackle.

If Chol continues his form and kicks 40+ goals for the year while also providing a chop out in the ruck and getting 10 or so hitouts a game then we've done extremely well by bringing him in for $400,000 a year. Mabs never really got a proper go at it in the yellow and black but now he has ample opportunity to impact a game, especially since King isn't out there. Probably the most exciting thing about Chol is that it's very obvious he is nowhere near his ceiling as a player but is still impacting the game, whereas with 2MP I get the feeling he doesn't have much room for improvement from where he is right now. It should also be pointed out that Casboult has kicked 7 goals for us this year so it's not like Chol is just getting every opportunity when the ball enters the forward 50. Both of our tall forwards have found a way to be equally productive in terms of goals kicked this year.
 
GC2015 said:
I think the rumour was Chol accepted a deal worth $400,000 a year with us. Peter Wright is reportedly on $500,000 a year at Essendon.

Is 2MP's output worth $100,000 more per year than Chol's? I don't think so when you look at the important stats.

2022 stats so far
Mabior Chol: 3 games, 6 goals, 3 behinds, 28 hitouts, 5 tackles.
Peter Wright: 3 games, 9 goals, 2 behinds, 18 hitouts, 1 tackle.

If Chol continues his form and kicks 40+ goals for the year while also providing a chop out in the ruck and getting 10 or so hitouts a game then we've done extremely well by bringing him in for $400,000 a year. Mabs never really got a proper go at it in the yellow and black but now he has ample opportunity to impact a game, especially since King isn't out there. Probably the most exciting thing about Chol is that it's very obvious he is nowhere near his ceiling as a player but is still impacting the game, whereas with 2MP I get the feeling he doesn't have much room for improvement from where he is right now. It should also be pointed out that Casboult has kicked 7 goals for us this year so it's not like Chol is just getting every opportunity when the ball enters the forward 50. Both of our tall forwards have found a way to be equally productive in terms of goals kicked this year.
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Chol has kicked a few goals, yeah. That’s been nice. - he’s never strung together a consistent goal scoring run so hopefully he does continue. Hasn’t exactly been a strong marking target though. His back up ruck work had been decent.

Peter wright has had a far superior season, easily worth an extra 100k payment.

3 goals vs. 2

7 marks vs. 2

2.7 contested marks vs 0.7

4 marks inside 50. Vs. 0.7

6.7 score involvements vs. 4.0
 

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Think chol can get alot better still though. 2mp frustrated the hell out of us and continues to do so for bombers supporters. Always seemed like he would be a superstar but never reached his potential.
 
Southern Sun said:
Think chol can get alot better still though. 2mp frustrated the hell out of us and continues to do so for bombers supporters. Always seemed like he would be a superstar but never reached his potential.
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Chol also very frustrating for tigers supporters.

Chol definitely has supreme talent and potential.
 
One thing I am positive about = in the 2020 shortened season, both Brodie and 2MP should have got some games.
Sam Day was preferred over 2MP all season long (yep, 2MP did not play one game).
Brodie played the pre-Covid game against Port and that was it.

It was hard to prepare with no VFL games, but a few of our younger players were cooked (and Sam Day is a below average key forward).

Dew clearly has his strong points, but still got a few weak areas as well. Once you are out of favour seems very hard to get back in.
 
I recall Peter Wright was in the top 50 paid players in the comp at some point, possibly on 800k a year. Now that could have been just a one year contract smoothing type deal, but still…

Stroppy said:
It was hard to prepare with no VFL games, but a few of our younger players were cooked (and Sam Day is a below average key forward).

Dew clearly has his strong points, but still got a few weak areas as well. Once you are out of favour seems very hard to get back in.
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Now if we’re comparing Wright and Day, then Wright is so far superior it’s not even funny.

Having a proper VFL team/season will make it clear which players should be in the team. We have already seen that this season. Perhaps if we’d had that in the past, things would be different. Perhaps not.
 
Touk Miller, when his underperforming best mate 2MP was here:

2020: 20 disposals.

Touk Miller, when his underperforming best mate was traded away and Touk turned his attention to his footy 100%.

2021: 30.8 disposals and now co-captain.
 
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OB11 said:
It's taken Longmuir 1 pre-season to work out that Brodie is playing his best when he is played in bursts and rested on the bench often. Dew is too focused on player weaknesses and not maximising their strengths.
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Dew is just a shit coach….

Actually spoke to Jarryd Lyons about 2 weeks before getting the flick.

Anyway his exact comments at the time “ They’d rather play someone who can run and jump then someone who can get the football.”

Brodie looks to be trending in the same direction. Stoppage beast that can find the footy - playing to his strength’s. Reminds me of Josh Kennedy, didn’t get a regular game time for a few years then just got the right opportunity and never looked back.
 
I’m not so much upset that Brodie is gone, but still incredibly annoyed with how Cameron and the list management team went about throwing all their cards on the table with pick 19 straight up to get rid of him (and Macpherson before him).

Other clubs seem to manage to trade out their fringe players for a late 4th etc. to get the money of their list, but for some reason they were hell-bent on including 19, which is a valuable trade asset in itself. You can’t even argue it’s a salary dump for King when they turn around and give similar deals to Atkins/Chol/etc.

And we are left once again looking like idiots at the trade table.
 
Young_Guns said:
And we are left once again looking like idiots at the trade table.
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I like to think we are playing the long game.

One sided trade after one sided trade involving players that turn out to good, the other clubs are lining up.

We then offer an underperforming spud plus a 3rd and 4th rounder for pick 1 and the other club goes "if the Suns are involved it must be a good deal for us, sign me up"!

Smart!
 
Bottom line for me is that we are not a Club that can just give away talent in their early 20's
No matter the machinations and arcane reasoning it looks bad and will be pounced on by media
My point re Chol and 2MP is that Wright was basically given away as bad produce and then a year later we're scratching around to find the exact same player
If we'd recruited Harry McKay sure I'd understand but we didn't and it basically left a Jarryd Witts size hole in the list when he went down
I'm not an Aaron Hall fan either but it appears a good coach has found his sweet spot as well
I'm also pretty sure (and was at the time)that Trent McKenzie is 20x the footballer Caleb Graham will ever be
But hey-we traded up to Rory ****ing Atkins right?
 
PokerChamp said:
Dew is just a shit coach….

Actually spoke to Jarryd Lyons about 2 weeks before getting the flick.

Anyway his exact comments at the time “ They’d rather play someone who can run and jump then someone who can get the football.”

Brodie looks to be trending in the same direction. Stoppage beast that can find the footy - playing to his strength’s. Reminds me of Josh Kennedy, didn’t get a regular game time for a few years then just got the right opportunity and never looked back.
Click to expand...
By Lyons’ own admission in interviews, he worked on a lot of things after moving to Brisbane and basically admitted he wasn’t at his best on GC. I’m not saying we were right to palm him off for nothing (definitely am not happy about that), I’m just saying he became better as an individual and worked on some of his faults, or improved his strengths?

Maybe that’s Fagan, or maybe that’s on Lyons, maybe it’s both, or just working in a better system (e.g having players like Neale or Zorko). Maybe Lyons wanted to give a big middle finger to Dew, or maybe he needed a change. Who knows.

Whatever the case, it’s part a long litany of things I’m not thrilled about but have moved on from.
 
Playing finals solves a lot of the scrutiny issues with players going to other clubs. Look at how many amazing gws players are running around at other clubs, nobody cares (they also get good returns on trades).

Plenty of us knew very well Brodie was a pure midfield with a few tank issues. Plenty of us here wanted an extended run to see how he’d do regardless. He’ll do well given a chance, maybe the type of chance we didn’t give him.

BUT at the time we let him go, without knowing any internal workings of the club, I’d bet there’s no way he was ever getting into the team ahead of Miler, Rowell or Anderson. And the club is betting on the future of Davies and Hollands. I’m comfortable with that bet but it’s going to take a year or two (and more good games from Brodie) to see if it is a winner or loser. So buckle up.
 

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List Mgmt. Where are they now? (ex suns)

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