Where do you rate Buddy on Hawks' list of all time greats?

[WillowSF]

Without doubt Lethal was the best ever the game has seen. It will be hard for anyone to even get close to him. Franklin still has a way to go to be considered one of our all time greats but if anyone is going to do it, it's probably Buddy. If he can completely eradicate the silly free kicks (he's gotten better in this area), improve his kicking for goal and overhead marking he is just about the perfect player. Obviously he needs a few big grand final performances too.

I loved watching Brereton during the finals. Dermott was inconsistent the last third of his career due largely to injury but he was such a great big game player. He never let the side down. (The 87 grand final being the only exception if I recall correctly. By the way, he was robbed of the Norm Smith Medal in 85!)

Those teams of the 70's/ 80's had so many warriors...Knights, Hudson, Moore, Wallace, Tuck, Dunstall, Platten, Ayres, Langford, Mew, Greene etc.

 

[Sixpence]

Seeing others have mentioned Hudson, and it being a 50 year celebration of his 1971 150 goal season would a Hudson celebration thread be accepted.

Please do Mud! Too young to have seen him play myself, but I'd love to hear more about him.

On a random note, the term 'for mine' is bugging me more and more. Seems to be all the rave on this site.

 

[Agent Smith]

On an all-time greatest forward line that contains gods such as Hudson, Dunstall, Brereton, Arthur, Buckenara and Platten (I put the Rat in a forward pocket coz he couldn't shake off this nuggety little fella by the name of Barney as first rover, but don't underestimate the Rat's goal sneaking prowess), could Buddy nudge his way in there? If he keeps going like he is, I may have to shift Bucky to the interchange. Sorry Gary.

As for defense, with the likes of Langers, Moore, Conan, Mew, and... wait for it... Knightsy!! I may sneak Hodgey somewhere on a half back flank, mainly for the lulz when he tells ppl where to line up and then getting death glares from most of them.

 

[Pessimistic]

I reckon Buddys legacy wil be he is remembered as part of when Hawthorn transitioned into blockbuster status. No doubt a few thousand neutrals / non commited come to watch whsn he is playing.

If we still draw big crowds after he retires, That might be his legacy

 

[MinerBoy]

2nd to Lethal Leigh for mine.
Yep he's gone past Dunstall, Brereton, Hudson & Platten for mine.

Gone past them in excitment perhaps but certainly not achievement. He may end up one of our absolute greats but isn't quite in the top tier yet. With age on his side though I wouldn't be surprised if he finishes right along side all those guys.

 

[Woodside Hawk]

Please do Mud! Too young to have seen him play myself, but I'd love to hear more about him.

x2.

A 'not quite the 50th anniversary' thread would be a fantastic idea. I'm just a touch too young to have seen Hudson play, but if you look at per game goal averages and the enormous hauls he had, and take into account the injuries he sustained throughout his career, then Hudson would clearly have to be the best full forward of all time....for mine.

LMOG - please start your thread and educate us that missed him on the great man.

And to the OP - no way you can rate Buddy ahead of Dunstall or Brereton as yet. Fingers crossed in a few years time we may be able to consider that, because if that's the case we will have had one of the all time best periods of success.

 

[MinerBoy]

Get a history lesson sonny boy.

You may want to start with the excellent article about Peter Hudson that is currently on the Hawthorn web page and then get some old video footage.

Hey Mods

Seeing others have mentioned Hudson, and it being a 50 year celebration of his 1971 150 goal season would a Hudson celebration thread be accepted.

Give all those who saw and knew the great man the opportunity to go down memory lane posting their favourite reminiscences.

I would use a non reply as an excuse to talk about Hudson.

2011 - 1971 = 50? That makes me 48 then....

 

[Pessimistic]

They say the Hawks used to like to leave hudson alone in the forward line, often the whole forward half empty.

if you have alook at glenferrie, which is now judged to be too small and dangerous for anything bu auskick, you can see that defensive flooding was invented a long time before eade did it in sydney

 

[Bosk]

Franklin has a LONG way to go to be considered in the same breath as players like Dunstall and Brereton.

So many elements of Franklin's game are in need of improvement, such as his marking, tackling without giving away frees, goalkicking accuracy and attitude in general.

Guys like Dunstall and the others mentioned may not have had Franklin's freakish athleticism, but they were miles ahead of him in every other department. Often Franlkin's weaker traits are hidden by his freakish natural ability, whereas a bloke like Dunstall simply had no weak traits.


Franklin COULD raise his game to the level of our past champions by the end of his career, starting with working on his consistency, discipline, and kicking for goal.

 

[Dragz]

Certainly one of the most exciting to watch players that i've been privileged to see.

Might get the sub guernsey so he could come on and replace Dermie if he's not performing.

Needs to kick more goals from his shots to be truly "Great"

10 shots on goal should be 7 goals + more often than not.

 

[arupist]

Franklin has a LONG way to go to be considered in the same breath as players like Dunstall and Brereton.

Disagree with this to some extent.

As a full forward, Buddy is well behind Huddo and the Chief. As a CHF, he is not that far from Dermie.

I tend to think that Derm is a little over-rated by many on this forum. He certainly put in some stellar performances for the Hawks and didn't mind putting his body on the line. Overall, though, I do not believe he had anywhere near the impact on games, or as frequently, that some of our other superstars did.

 

[satan1]

I think Buddy not having consistency is misplaced. If you have a look at a player like Carey in his best season (96) he still had 6 games where he scored 1 goal or less.

In 08 buddy had 3 games, 09 - 3 games, 10 - 1 game.

Pretty consistent if you ask me (you didn't? sorry move along)

 

[Jayd19]

I can only remember from about the mid 80's so I can't comment on Hudson and not really Lethal (or any of the other greats before then).

But in terms of the mid 80s on, if we assume Buddy continues at this level for another 6 or 7 years, I'd put him behind Dunstall but not too many others (maybe Langford).

I also rank Buddy's 2008 season as better and more dominant than any one season of Dunstall's (including the year Dunstall kicked 145).

If you compare Buddy to Dermie for example.

Dermie: 427 goals from 189 games. 1 B&F. 1 All-Australian. 5 Premierships.

Buddy: 396 goals from 127 games. 1 B&F. 2 All-Australian. 1 Premiership.

If Buddy's second half of his career is as good or better than the first half, his stats might be something like 800 goals, 2 or 3 B&Fs, 4 or 5 All-Australians, hopefully at least 1 more premiership.

There would be a good argument he should replace Dermie at CHF in the team of the century.

 

[DannyJ]

Not in the 18 yet. Will surpass players and be in there. Is a fair freak.

Note # I did predict Jonathan Hay would surpass people aswell

 

[Gene Simmons]

Buddy is awesome...

But can't put him past Dunstall...not yet anyway!!

Even though Dunstall played in a team of champions, he showed even in the twilight of his career that he could sing handedly destroy the opposition back line.

Had he not broken his collar bone in his last season would have kicked another 100! (In an average team). I think he had about 50 goals by Round 10!!!

 

[Hodgepodge]

He's only limited by how hard he's willing to work.

 

[Gorry]

I tend to think that Derm is a little over-rated by many on this forum. He certainly put in some stellar performances for the Hawks and didn't mind putting his body on the line. Overall, though, I do not believe he had anywhere near the impact on games, or as frequently, that some of our other superstars did.

Hmmmmmm..... I don't want to start a fight here. I know it's your opinion and all and you're entitled to it, but, it's wrong.

 

[market]

Disagree with this to some extent.

As a full forward, Buddy is well behind Huddo and the Chief. As a CHF, he is not that far from Dermie.

I tend to think that Derm is a little over-rated by many on this forum. He certainly put in some stellar performances for the Hawks and didn't mind putting his body on the line. Overall, though, I do not believe he had anywhere near the impact on games, or as frequently, that some of our other superstars did.

Hmmmmmm..... I don't want to start a fight here. I know it's your opinion and all and you're entitled to it, but, it's wrong.

I guess I over-rate Derm then, as I think he is way ahead of Buddy "at this point in time"...Some of those stellar performances from Derm were on the biggest stage of all and inspired a team...(many times)....
But as highlighted, its an opinion only....

 

[Dollars Inc]

1. Matthews
2. Dunstall
3. Tuck
4. Brereton
5. Crawford
6. Scott
7. Arthur
8. Aryes
9. Knights
10. Langford........

Big list ahead of him yet. Should he never play again he will remembered as a Coleman medalist who won a flag and was an excitement machine. Not a great deal more. lets chat in 7-8 years when he has finished. There is not a single player in our team at present who would make it into my greatest ever all time team. No slight on players like Buddy, Hodge, Mitchell but they have many a year left to overtake 200 game legends of our club. Buddy and Hodge will in time but lets not forget just how good this club has been..

Oh my God... Platten, Hudson, Dipper...

 

[themarkedman72]

pretty simply Budy could be the best of all time.

He is on target to be very special but it all depends on what he does with his career from here on in as well.

He needs to win some flags, kicka few tons and maybe win a brownlow or two.

 

[CAPTAINCRAWF]

About 37th

 

[arupist]

I guess I over-rate Derm then, as I think he is way ahead of Buddy "at this point in time"...Some of those stellar performances from Derm were on the biggest stage of all and inspired a team...(many times)....
But as highlighted, its an opinion only....

Yep, opinion only. We will never get agreement on who is better than who. Take the post just below yours as an example (not having a go at you Dollars Inc). There is one persons view of a top 10. No Mew, Moore, Hudson or Dunstall. I would have all four in my top 10, along with Brendan Edwards.

Probably have Lethal, Tucky and Conan as well. To round it off maybe Platts and Arthur. But what about Knights?

So there's 11 and still no mention of Dermie. Nor Buddy. I also have a growing love for Hodgey as an all-round superstar for this club.

There is no real answer for rankings. In the grand scheme of things, I don't rate Dermie as high as others. Still a champion, but one ranking in the teens. We have had so many. Buddy is getting there.

But not yet.

 

[AudiR8dreamer]

1. Matthews
2. Dunstall
3. Tuck
4. Brereton
5. Crawford
6. Scott
7. Arthur
8. Aryes
9. Knights
10. Langford........

Big list ahead of him yet. Should he never play again he will remembered as a Coleman medalist who won a flag and was an excitement machine. Not a great deal more. lets chat in 7-8 years when he has finished. There is not a single player in our team at present who would make it into my greatest ever all time team. No slight on players like Buddy, Hodge, Mitchell but they have many a year left to overtake 200 game legends of our club. Buddy and Hodge will in time but lets not forget just how good this club has been..

Oh my God... Platten, Hudson, Dipper...

I was fortunate enough to watch Peter Hudson in his prime playing at Glenferrie oval. For those that didn't because you weren't conceived early enough, you missed out on an amazing talent. Was there to see him bag his 8 goals (all torpedo punts) against the Colliwobbles at VFL Park, when he showed up in a helicopter a couple hours before the game, and never trained with the team all year . . . and most of his goals were on tight angles. So I saw the best of the 70s and 80s champions and premiership teams. Lethal Leigh was the best player I ever saw play . . . by any team.

In my view, Buddy doesn't yet enter the top 10, but like many have very well put it, he certainly can get there by the end of his career based on what he achieves going forward.

Of the top 10 listed above (based on who I've seen play), I'd put in Peter Hudson (#2 behind Lethal), Chris Mew and John Platten. While Kelvin Moore was a great full back, even Lethal said Chris Mew was ahead of him as the best full back (even though Mew played mostly at CHB, because Peter Knights = best CHF in VFL/AFL history bar none). John Platten was the 2nd best rover I've seen in VFL/AFL history, behind Lethal (what a gift to have him start when Lethal retired). Even place him ahead of Kevin Bartlett, which is very tough to do.

Remove Langford and Don Scott - both make next 10. The 3rd to drop is between Crawford, Ayres and Brereton. If I had to keep 2 of these, it would be Ayres and Dermie. Don Scott was a gladiator. Was the shortest ruckman in his day and rarely lost to his opponent. But those were the days when technical free kicks weren't given at ruck contests and ruckmen could take a 20m run up to compete at center bounces and Scotty would almost always make contact with his knees or boots (Scottie wouldn't have a chance with today's rules . . . plus he'd be suspended more than he'd play). He was not the best kick or contested mark, but he made his presence felt so big (like Dermie) that everyone else felt tougher just playing with him. Dipper is not top 10 but I'd probably have him in my top 20.

As for the order, after Lethal and Hudson as 1 & 2, the rest are a toss up (but Peter Knights would be top 5). Sorry for the long reminiscing. Brings back great memories.

 

[AudiR8dreamer]

because Peter Knights = best CHF in VFL/AFL history bar none

correction - CHB, not CHF

 

[TheFourPillars]

because Peter Knights = best CHF in VFL/AFL history bar none

correction - CHB, not CHF

You won't get any arguments from me. The guy was my childhood hero