Which game would have the biggest impact or butterfly effect on AFL history if the result was changed?

[Cyclops]

1966 Grand Final.

If the St Kilda didn't win that, they would have zero premierships in 128 years- but would they even be in the AFL today?

They had some extremely lean times from the mid 1970's to the early 1990's, both on and off field. Yet they still retained a fair amount of passionate support throughout that era, especially at Moorabbin. That support - along with some very clever deal making by Lindsay Fox and other administrators - kept the Club alive in the early to mid 80's. But would enough support still be there if the Club - even at that stage - had zero premierships in 80 - 90 years in the competition?

The five other foundation Clubs still in the AFL in their original form have all won a minimum of ten premierships. Of the four surviving Clubs to join the then VFL after 1897, the Bulldogs with two have the least premiership success.

Between the financial pressures which would have arisen and the aggressive merger policies of the AFL in the 90's, it would have been extremely difficult to survive this long without winning a premiership.

From a relatively less dramatic perspective, if the Saints don't win in 1966 would Alan Jeans ever have coached Hawthorn, and what would have been the butterfly effect of that?
With the Premiership won, he coached on at St Kilda until the end of 1976, and was then appointed at Hawthorn for the 1981 season.

However, if he had missed that flag, history would say it is very unlikely he would have coached 16 years without a flag. Say he finished up at St Kilda in 1969 or 1970 for the sake of the theory! In that case, by 1980 he is almost certainly coaching elsewhere or out of football altogether, and either not available or not considered for the Hawthorn job.

Yes a stray bouncing ball from Breen more significant than Lenny Hayes.

Hawks were very well set up with players in the 80s, so success still likely, but so were the Saints and Jeans only got them one.

Who were the coaches available in 1980? To soon for Sheedy and the Hawks clearly wanted experience. Maybe Parkin survives?

 

[BigVic]

I wonder what would have happened if Dees didn't tank against Richmond in 2008 and Tom Scully got picked up by West Coast instead.

We'd get Dusty Martin and he'd probably be dead.

Butterfly Effect

That was the following season

 

[Toump Ass]

That was the following season

Any tanking game then

 

[Dazb86]

97 prelim. Dogs V Saints in the grand final on one flag each.

Saints are still on the one flag unfortunately. Still have plenty of spoons in the cupboard though.

 

[G String]

Easily the latter because in your deluded view the no "stand rule" might mean Richmond could upgrade the 2020 Covid flag to a 2022 version back at the home of football. You know, because Richmond could have remained a powerhouse.

Where would BigFooty be without a Richmond poster saying something about being crucified by the stand rule - a Geelong supporter making a snide remark in response and then Fadge laughing at it ....

 

[Fadge]

Where would BigFooty be without a Richmond poster saying something about being crucified by the stand rule - a Geelong supporter making a snide remark in response and then Fadge laughing at it ....

One of the all time great Movies, that one...

 

[Mr Meow]

Where would BigFooty be without a Richmond poster saying something about being crucified by the stand rule - a Geelong supporter making a snide remark in response and then Fadge laughing at it ....

Mock their delusions, it's fun.

 

[Blackhawk42]

ahhh, as I said, because we would still be playing footy, not a netball/footy hybrid abomination.

all because of that day.

hopefully not far away from STAND being abolished, maybe another year or two. Cornes came out last year in the papers absolutely rubbishing it, the first of the media in-club to do so. Didn't get any momentum though. Maybe this year a few more voices will chirp up. The umps are doing their bit quietly I feel, definitely less emphasis on the STAND shriek, and letting the game flow the way it used to, where they possibly can.

I'm fully confident we will make afl great again

(MAGA)

People only dislike hearing 'stand' constantly.

The actual rule has turned out to be fine. That's why any calls for abolishing it haven't gained any momentum.

Coaches have simply instructed players to move back and 'man' the mark from a couple of steps behind where it should be anyway.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Rnd 9 1990 Jason Dunstall goes down with facial injury. Doesn't return till late in the season. I project that had piggy played the entire season we would 4peated.

 

[Fadge]

Rnd 9 1990 Jason Dunstall goes down with facial injury. Doesn't return till late in the season. I project that had piggy played the entire season we would 4peated.

Thank God for Melbourne beating you in the Elimination Final....

Pies weren't beating you that finals series.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Geelong going on with their 20 point lead at 3 QTR time in the 2013 Prelim. We would have still had the curse and may have never gone on the threepeat run. Varcoe's miss in the dying seconds to force a draw etc. Probably the biggest sliding doors moment in our history.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Rnd 9 1990 Jason Dunstall goes down with facial injury. Doesn't return till late in the season. I project that had piggy played the entire season we would 4peated.

He missed half the season in 1991 too with a busted ankle and we still saluted. We were smashed with injury in 1990 wasn't just The Chief alot of our good players had interrupted years. That's ultimately what cost us IMO.

 

[TheFourPillars]

He missed half the season in 1991 too with a busted ankle and we still saluted. We were smashed with injury in 1990 wasn't just The Chief alot of our good players had interrupted years. That's ultimately what cost us IMO.

Yeh of course but piggy was kinda more than handy compared to the others

 

[Freomaniac]

This is easy, 2020 Grand Final

No STAND rule if Geelong wins

If I could go back and given the choice:

-have to watch netball-footy the last 4 years

-or have to watch Geelong win that GF

Genuinely not sure what I would choose

Or Ross Lyon footy. LoL

You can't get enough Ross Lyon footy LoL

 

[Freomaniac]

He missed half the season in 1991 too with a busted ankle and we still saluted. We were smashed with injury in 1990 wasn't just The Chief alot of our good players had interrupted years. That's ultimately what cost us IMO.

You could argue that half a season of injuries in 1991 eventually cost Dunstall to get 1300 goals

 

[BigVic]

With Dunstall, no drought-breaker for us in 1990.

 

[TP86]

2005 prelim final. No Swans Premiership + Roos mastermind effect has a knock-on for multiple other grand finals and premierships, and who knows where footy goes if Grant Thomas becomes a premiership coach himself.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Or Ross Lyon footy. LoL

You can't get enough Ross Lyon footy LoL

I'd take Ross Lyon footy over STAND era footy

Dumbest rule ever devised in any football code, ever ever.

Then getting stuck with bandaid 'OUTSIDE 5' shrieking rules-on-the-run because 'STAND' was so poorly conceived.

Jesus wept.

2020 GF goes the way of Geelong, I'm almost certain none of this ever happens.

Still haven't seen a more consequential game listed in this thread, for the look and sound of AFL today.

 

[Mr Meow]

I'd take Ross Lyon footy over STAND era footy

Dumbest rule ever devised in any football code, ever ever.

Then getting stuck with bandaid 'OUTSIDE 5' shrieking rules-on-the-run because 'STAND' was so poorly conceived.

Jesus wept.

2020 GF goes the way of Geelong, I'm almost certain none of this ever happens.

Still haven't seen a more consequential game listed in this thread, for the look and sound of AFL today.

Wah wah wah CFL conspiracy, STAND.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Wah wah wah CFL conspiracy, STAND.

As I said, point to a more consequential game for the look and sound of AFL today, than the 2020 GF.

Would be tough to beat it.

 

[STPer18]

This is easy, 2020 Grand Final

No STAND rule if Geelong wins

If I could go back and given the choice:

-have to watch netball-footy the last 4 years

-or have to watch Geelong win that GF

Genuinely not sure what I would choose

No thanks, I'm taking the '22 flag at the home of football. Covid Cup is all yours - STAND!

 

[Mr Meow]

As I said, point to a more consequential game for the look and sound of AFL today, than the 2020 GF.

Would be tough to beat it.

Wah wah wah CFL conspiracy, STAND.

 

[Randall Stevens]

Yes a stray bouncing ball from Breen more significant than Lenny Hayes.

Hawks were very well set up with players in the 80s, so success still likely, but so were the Saints and Jeans only got them one.

Who were the coaches available in 1980? To soon for Sheedy and the Hawks clearly wanted experience. Maybe Parkin survives?

Agree that the Hawks had lists for success in the 80's, but I'm not sure they would have had such a sustained run as we did with a coach less loved by most of his players than Jeans was - a great hypothetical though!

I'm slightly too young to remember what if any other names were speculated for the Hawthorn job in 1981. The historical re-telling is (of course) that he was always the target, and was convinced to take the job by then President and long time administrator Ron Cook.

Jeans himself said he had almost taken the Fitzroy coaching job before Cook convinced him to sign on with Hawthorn. The Fitzroy job eventually went to Robert Walls in his first coaching appointment.

'81 was Sheedy's first year as coach at Essendon.

Malcolm Blight commenced his coaching career at North that year too. In doing so he became the last playing coach in the VFL, but didn't even see out that season as coach.

Barassi also returned to Melbourne as coach that year.

In all six out of twelve clubs had new coaches at the start of 1981. All six either had been premiership coaches at a previous club (Barassi), would become premiership coaches in the future (Walls, Sheedy, Blight) or had already won a flag and would again at their new club (Parkin, Jeans).

 

[Cyclops]

Agree that the Hawks had lists for success in the 80's, but I'm not sure they would have had such a sustained run as we did with a coach less loved by most of his players than Jeans was - a great hypothetical though!

I'm slightly too young to remember what if any other names were speculated for the Hawthorn job in 1981. The historical re-telling is (of course) that he was always the target, and was convinced to take the job by then President and long time administrator Ron Cook.

Jeans himself said he had almost taken the Fitzroy coaching job before Cook convinced him to sign on with Hawthorn. The Fitzroy job eventually went to Robert Walls in his first coaching appointment.

'81 was Sheedy's first year as coach at Essendon.

Malcolm Blight commenced his coaching career at North that year too. In doing so he became the last playing coach in the VFL, but didn't even see out that season as coach.

Barassi also returned to Melbourne as coach that year.

In all six out of twelve clubs had new coaches at the start of 1981. All six either had been premiership coaches at a previous club (Barassi), would become premiership coaches in the future (Walls, Sheedy, Blight) or had already won a flag and would again at their new club (Parkin, Jeans).

Given the Hawks brief for proven quality they would be more likely to goi for a Barrassi/Hafey than a Blight, but thats one hell of a coodabeen. Imagine that insane genius with Buckenara, Dunstall and Platten at his disposal. 7 flags or none.

 

[Coach_Required]

Final against Port if Trent Cotchin decided to kick with the wind.