Prediction Which potential ruckmen would you prefer?

[Armoooo]

Yep and I bet you have watched zeros minutes of his games, you don't need an entire season to see that the guy is an absolute spud.

I only watched one hour of footy this year, our second half against West Coast.

All I can say is thank God we don't have any duds like Harley Reid. Bloke is an absolute spud.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I only watched one hour of footy this year, our second half against West Coast.

All I can say is thank God we don't have any duds like Harley Reid. Bloke is an absolute spud.

Was that an attempt at humour or sarcasm, poor either way, pathetic really.

 

[BrutThough]

Why don't you just let Heath play the main ruck role and Keeler play the KPF/2nd ruck role at VFL level to get their development up and give them a chance to be ready for an AFL call up if needed? I thought both have shown good signs at times. I think having Campbell playing VFL has stunted Heath's development somewhat - time to let the kid play the main role at Sandi!

Heath likley will still play the main ruck role at Sandy a lot even if we bring in another option. But clubs typically have more than 2 rucks on their list and it's not unreasonable to expect us to do the same.

 

[Significant]

Why don't you just let Heath play the main ruck role and Keeler play the KPF/2nd ruck role at VFL level to get their development up and give them a chance to be ready for an AFL call up if needed? I thought both have shown good signs at times. I think having Campbell playing VFL has stunted Heath's development somewhat - time to let the kid play the main role at Sandi!

This.

 

[L_W_P]

To even consider Boyd is comical IMO...Not one other club has gone within a bulls raw of Boyd, yet the Saints pony up and fly him over for a medical.

If we recruit Boyd that will be the end of my and my families 27 year membership. Its extreme I know but I am absolutely sick of our club attempting to fill ruckman holes with absolute spuds.

Huh?

He just won the SANFL BnF as a ruck. Seems a pretty decent player on paper.

Why the hate?

 

[Rogue Warrior]

Why don't you just let Heath play the main ruck role and Keeler play the KPF/2nd ruck role at VFL level to get their development up and give them a chance to be ready for an AFL call up if needed? I thought both have shown good signs at times. I think having Campbell playing VFL has stunted Heath's development somewhat - time to let the kid play the main role at Sandi!

Hit the nail on the head. Campbell was a great clubman but if Sandy’s priority is to develop St kilda players vs focus on winning it made little sense why Heath wasn’t given greater priority as #1 ruck, with Campbell 2nd fiddle. If Heath does make it, hopefully his time playing forward will serve him well.
2025 is his time to shine, hopefully #1 every week in the vfl and ideally blooded for a few games in the afl team if he earns it.

I’m a big fan of Keeler. Has all the athletic traits and skills to be very handy if his work ethic is there to match. His development is tracking well and to your point, time to give him more ruck exposure.

Will be very curious which angle we go with our additional ruck choice. Do we go mature bodied who will only be a break glass option or do they go 18yr to develop. And will which way the club goes give us a clue as to if they believe Heath will make it or not?

 

[gringo2011]

I'd prefer Heath or Keeler to either of the spuds mentioned. Why not give these lads their chance after years of development?

Necessity being the mother of invention would see these two show if they're up to it. Added to this, Marshall has proved very durable over his career and has shown he can carry and play through injury.

Let's not grab another Hunter or McKernan type. On the list for one year and it's goodbye. A wasted list spot and a year in which we could've started developing another promising young ruckman.

Get the best young ruckman available to us with a late pick, or rookie one who may have missed out in the past couple of years. No more WAFL nor SANFL spuds!

If Marshall and Heath are both injured we are playing Cordy or Hammer/ Sharman at the moment. This guy is just purely a third rung ruck. Doesn't really need to do more than be able to halve contests if he's ever needed.

 

[gringo2011]

Goober still available.... just saying.

 

[Armoooo]

Was that an attempt at humour or sarcasm, poor either way, pathetic really.

No genuine analysis based on a sample size sufficient to assess a players ability.

 

[SteeleSaints]

No genuine analysis based on a sample size sufficient to assess a players ability.

And you have

I love how idiots like yourself are jumping all over me because I had the interest to go and watch a game and make an assessment. Yet all you are relying on is one highlights clip and the fact the club are interested in him. He may only be a cheap short term fix, but Ill wait for the melt downs when and if he ever plays.

The other consideration is what about Heath's development? If as reported this spud can only play in the ruck, Heath will be in a worse position than he was with Campbell in the side. He will be the worse list management decision since bringing in Paul Hunter who was also dominating the SANFL.

 

[Armoooo]

And you have

I love how idiots like yourself are jumping all over me because I had the interest to go and watch a game and make an assessment. Yet all you are relying on is one highlights clip and the fact the club are interested in him. He may only be a cheap short term fix, but Ill wait for the melt downs when and if he ever plays.

The other consideration is what about Heath's development? If as reported this spud can only play in the ruck, Heath will be in a worse position than he was with Campbell in the side. He will be the worse list management decision since bringing in Paul Thomas who was also dominating the SANFL.

I haven't even watched his highlights.

He would be brought in as an emergency if Rowan and Heath are injured.

If he's that much of a dud he won't impact heaths development as he'd be the number 1 ruck still.

How many teams ever go into the season with 1 established ruck and nothing but an untried 21 year old in reserve?

I'm in the school of thought that if Row goes down we need to give Heath a run at it, this doesn't change that.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I haven't even watched his highlights.
He would be brought in as an emergency if Rowan and Heath are injured.
If he's that much of a dud he won't impact heaths development as he'd be the number 1 ruck still.
How many teams ever go into the season with 1 established ruck and nothing but an untried 21 year old in reserve?
I'm in the school of thought that if Row goes down we need to give Heath a run at it, this doesn't change that.

Thats my point, then where does he play?

WHY NOT grab a young ruckman who can at least can play forward, and develop his ruck craft behind Marshall & Heath. Boyd would be a complete waste of a list spot and the absolute wrong way for us to go for both the VFL & AFL sides.

People get excited when they think the club have found a hidden gem ruckman in the state leagues, how many times has that proven to work out? Identifying and developing kids is where the rucking gems come from!!!!

 

[borderbarry]

Where would Boyd stand in the list of or current ruckmen?
Marshall
Heath
Keeler.
Where would you place Boyd on the list?

 

[thekizzler]

Thats my point, then where does he play?

WHY NOT grab a young ruckman who can at least can play forward, and develop his ruck craft behind Marshall & Heath. Boyd would be a complete waste of a list spot and the absolute wrong way for us to go for both the VFL & AFL sides.

People get excited when they think the club have found a hidden gem ruckman in the state leagues, how many times has that proven to work out? Identifying and developing kids is where the rucking gems come from!!!!

Bloody hell You watched half a SANFL game.

You don't know sh*t about old mate Boyd. Literally. Your ego is out of control.

I've never seen a poster with a worse making points to making sense ratio. It's incredible.

Keep on giving us your pearls of wisdom - it's entertaining.

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As for Boyd, I'll back the club to nab the best mature age ruckman they see fit. Whether it be Boyd, Blakiston or others.

Drafting an 18-year-old ruckman and not picking another ruck up is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.

Both the club and we have no idea about Heath's suitability as a number two ruckman. We are hopeful.

Why would we pick a developing ruck when they are very rarely capable of competing because they are infants compared to developed rucks?

How many 18 year old ruckman from the 2023 national draft played an AFL game in 2024?

I'll go you one better. How many from the 2022 national draft have played an AFL game? Hugh Davies I reckon is it or close to it.

So basically, you want us to go into 2025 with Rowan Marshall (gun - huge workload), Max Heath (unproven) and 18-year-old kid (who has maybe 1% chance of holding his own).

Boy oh boy

 

[Kildonan]

I think we underestimate the value of a pure ruckman - someone who not only competes in the ruck, but wins more taps to advantage than his opponent, who builds a tank so he can run all day, who falls back in defence, who offers a target when we are kicking out from deep in defence, and who gets in the way of opponents hunting our players.

I had a long look through the U18 ruck prospects and I like Aiden Riddle, a bottom aged pure ruckman who will take some time but I expect he could battle in our midfield for years. While he is there we could bring in Ruck / forwards as support.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I think we underestimate the value of a pure ruckman - someone who not only competes in the ruck, but wins more taps to advantage than his opponent, who builds a tank so he can run all day, who falls back in defence, who offers a target when we are kicking out from deep in defence, and who gets in the way of opponents hunting our players.

I had a long look through the U18 ruck prospects and I like Aiden Riddle, a bottom aged pure ruckman who will take some time but I expect he could battle in our midfield for years. While he is there we could bring in Ruck / forwards as support.

I agree but that aint Boyd...

 

[SteeleSaints]

Huh?

He just won the SANFL BnF as a ruck. Seems a pretty decent player on paper.

Why the hate?

Its not hate, he is just not a ruckman who will make the step up at the AFL level. If he was any good and had an AFL future there would be 10 AFL clubs wanting him - but there isnt.

What I do hate is the idea of recruiting such a limited hole filler because thats what he is. Surely our recent history tells us that doesnt work and when he is gone we will still be looking for a decent ruckman. Another wasted year or two going no where.

Using Heath & a pinch hitting Keeler might be the answer going forward, so why not bite the bullet now and grab another kid to develop in the role. Back in Heath if Mashall goes down and allow the kid/s time to develop.

We may be keen on throwing the kings ransom at De Goey next year when he is a free agent. But what does he offer, the ability to play both he and Marshall in the same side - why not look at kids who can do the same eg genuine rucks Dodson, Penry, Doherty, Burmiester or talls who can ruck in Sims, Gerryn, Mraz, Whitlocks etc.

To me adding another player who the club must know has a quick expiry date is counter productive and a complete waste of resources. It completely flies in the face of everything else the list management team have done turning the list over.

 

[thekizzler]

Its not hate, he is just not a ruckman who will make the step up at the AFL level. If he was any good and had an AFL future there would be 10 AFL clubs wanting him - but there isnt.

Once again, you watching half a SANFL game only makes this statement invalid.

I haven't watched half a SANFL game but I'll back our recruiters if they select Boyd.

Looks like we also picked up dud players in Callum Wilkie and Mason Wood recently

They didn't have 10 clubs wanting them, must not have a future.

Spare me

 

[SteeleSaints]

Once again, you watching half a SANFL game only makes this statement invalid.

I haven't watched half a SANFL game but I'll back our recruiters if they select Boyd.

Looks like we also picked up dud players in Callum Wilkie and Mason Wood recently

They didn't have 10 clubs wanting them, must not have a future.

Spare me

You are going to look like the complete spanker you are when Boyd proves me right!

 

[thekizzler]

You are going to look like the complete spanker you are when Boyd proves me right!

 

[junkyard_dog]

300 more hitouts than anyone in the SANFL and 70 more clearances. Its Not often a Ruckman beats midfielders in clearances.
Easily beat the Crows/power listed second tier Ruckman
Hope Boyd gets a go.

 

[SteeleSaints]

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As for Boyd, I'll back the club to nab the best mature age ruckman they see fit. Whether it be Boyd, Blakiston or others.
Drafting an 18-year-old ruckman and not picking another ruck up is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.
Both the club and we have no idea about Heath's suitability as a number two ruckman. We are hopeful.
Why would we pick a developing ruck when they are very rarely capable of competing because they are infants compared to developed rucks?
How many 18 year old ruckman from the 2023 national draft played an AFL game in 2024?
I'll go you one better. How many from the 2022 national draft have played an AFL game? Hugh Davies I reckon is it or close to it.
So basically, you want us to go into 2025 with Rowan Marshall (gun - huge workload), Max Heath (unproven) and 18-year-old kid (who has maybe 1% chance of holding his own).

Boy oh boy

So Boyd is our immediate rucking saviour thank god! A guy who is 198cms tall, couldnt run out of sight in the dark, has a disposal efficiency of 40% in the SANFL, has never played an AFL game, never done an AFL pre season and has been over looked in the past 8 drafts. A ruckman who has never played with AFL midfielders, let alone understands our game plan and centre bounce routines.

Absolutely I would back in Heath over a player like Boyd. The likelihood of both Marshall & Heath breaking down at the same time is slim, but if it did happen I would improvise use Keeler, Caminiti or Cordy like we have done in the past. Its ridiculous to suggest a young ruckman would play immediately (unless they are Jackson or similiar). No I wouldnt expect them to play next year, just like most of you dont realistically expect a spud like Boyd to play. If they pick the right kid at least he will have a future other than filling a hole for 12 months, at worse the kid could fill in rucking in the VFL. Perhaps Sandringham could even find a older ruckman to help out.

Its a short fall caused by years of the clubs poor list management (grabbing list fillers) and not having another option after the Soldo trade fell through. The Boyd interest smacks of a desperate recruiting team trying to cover up the mess with the Soldo situation. Not a team or club planning for the future - its classic St Kilda of old.

 

[thekizzler]

So Boyd is our immediate rucking saviour thank god! A guy who is 198cms tall, couldnt run out of sight in the dark, has a disposal efficiency of 40% in the SANFL, has never played an AFL game, never done an AFL pre season and has been over looked in the past 8 drafts. A ruckman who has never played with AFL midfielders, let alone understands our game plan and centre bounce routines.

Absolutely I would back in Heath over a player like Boyd. The likelihood of both Marshall & Heath breaking down at the same time is slim, but if it did happen I would improvise use Keeler, Caminiti or Cordy like we have done in the past. Its ridiculous to suggest a young ruckman would play immediately (unless they are Jackson or similiar). No I wouldnt expect them to play next year, just like most of you dont realistically expect a spud like Boyd to play. If they pick the right kid at least he will have a future other than filling a hole for 12 months, at worse the kid could fill in rucking in the VFL. Perhaps Sandringham could even find a older ruckman to help out.

Its a short fall caused by years of the clubs poor list management (grabbing list fillers) and not having another option after the Soldo trade fell through. The Boyd interest smacks of a desperate recruiting team trying to cover up the mess with the Soldo situation. Not a team or club planning for the future - its classic St Kilda of old.

Yeah I'm not sure where I suggested Boyd is our saviour? Lol.

But I reckon our recruiting team has probably watched him more than your half a SANFL game.

IF they pick him, and I mean IF, there is no reason to not back the club in. Decisions have been pretty solid all around recently.

Maybe they will pick Blakiston? Maybe they will pick someone else?

All I know is that the hill you are dying on is laughable to me and everyone else.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Yeah I'm not sure where I suggested Boyd is our saviour? Lol.
But I reckon our recruiting team has probably watched him more than your half a SANFL game.
IF they pick him, and I mean IF, there is no reason to not back the club in. Decisions have been pretty solid all around recently.
Maybe they will pick Blakiston? Maybe they will pick someone else?
All I know is that the hill you are dying on is laughable to me and everyone else.

I just finished watching Boyd play in the losing GF against Glenelg. He had a pretty decent game, there is no doubt he is good at his ruck craft, but he offers very little else. He is a big lump who has benefited by the rucking rule changes, he just stands on the line and steps into the opposing ruckmans run and blocks them with his size/strength. He never attempts to jump he just stands and fights for the fall of the ball space. He also uses those same strengths to snatch the ball out of the air and bang it forward, hence his clearance numbers. We know what happened when Marshall did that, it mostly ended up in a turn overs.

Whether he can do the same at the next level with bigger, stronger and smarter opponents is questionable. Opposition ruckman will either out muscle him or jump over him, and in open play he will struggle to stay with hard running opponents. Good ruckman are rare and very hard to find and I do prefer ruckman who can mark, run and contribute around the ground, hence my concerns re Boyd.

Ill concede as a basic ruckman (if ypu are happy with nothing else) he may be competitive, but he will offer zero around the ground. He is the complete opposite of the modern day athletic ruckman. If RTB can turn him into something great, but I still have my reservations.

The recruiters would have watched a lot more games, vision and had access to data of all the prospective recruits. Numerous posters have been quite forthright in their opinions of certain top 10 or 20 recruits. Strongly suggesting they dont want certain players for differing reasons, whats so outrageous or different with my suggesting I dont want another list filler?

 

[Armoooo]

If you just said i have seen a little bit of the bloke play and I'm not keen, nobody would have blinked an eye.

But you're writing essays explaining why having this bloke as the last player on our list would be a disaster. And then, you're claiming that when the 26 year old who will be taken with close to the last pick in the draft isn't a champion, you think it's other people that will look stupid.

If it comes round 16 next year and we're out of the 8 by percentage and Marshall and Heath are both out with hamstrings, we would hate to have to play an 18 year old who's not ready for a season defining month of footy.

We need another mature ruck, whoever we pick is unlikely to be a long term option.