Which premiership side is the best of the last four years?

[Rich01]

True. I can understand the temptation but really, Phil Davis was probably selfish for putting his hand up to play in the end. I understand why he, and others, wanted to but Cameron really needed to make the call on that one.

I still remember Phil Matera in tears when he didn't get up for the '05 GF.

As I said hindsight’s an easy one, but Davis looked proppy right before the game. And Whitfield could only kick on his left foot. This was evident early in the first quarter. I wonder what the expectation was on them for the day?

Davis was matched on Riewoldt who kicked 5. And the backline looked for Whitfield to exit the ball from the back half. So incredibly crucial roles.

 

[Wallaby]

I thought Davis was always going to play - he has a great record against Riewoldt.

Injured players have been played in finals forever. Everyone makes a fuss when they go wrong and ignore those times they go right. Broad was clearly concussed the week before, and would almost certainly have missed a week of H&A football - but it was a Grand Final. And he was fine.

In 2018 we played Astbury when he was unfit - and Cox killed us (in one quarter). Maybe it was because of Astbury's illness - maybe not. Don't know, and we aren't getting a replay.

You make a call, and live or die with it.

 

[bzparkes]

As I said hindsight’s an easy one, but Davis looked proppy right before the game. And Whitfield could only kick on his left foot. This was evident early in the first quarter. I wonder what the expectation was on them for the day?

Davis was matched on Riewoldt who kicked 5. And the backline looked for Whitfield to exit the ball from the back half. So incredibly crucial roles.

Ultimately I don't think it'd have made any difference but they definitely should've subbed those 2 out before the game really.

 

[BF Tiger]

 

[CarnTheScray]

View attachment 878956

"Yeah nah Bulldogs" - Marcus Bontempelli

 

[BF Tiger]

"Yeah nah Bulldogs" - Marcus Bontempelli

Very good.

 

[ShaunWCEFC]

Record against Top 8 sides

1st) West Coast Eagles '18 = 9 wins, 3 losses / 118.9%

2nd) Richmond '19 = 8 wins, 4 losses / 106.8%

3rd) Richmond '17 = 7 wins, 4 losses / 111.6%

4th) Western Bulldogs '16 = 8 wins, 5 losses / 101.2%

 

[pockets75]

Record against Top 8 sides

1st) West Coast Eagles '18 = 9 wins, 3 losses / 118.9%

2nd) Richmond '19 = 8 wins, 4 losses / 106.8%

3rd) Richmond '17 = 7 wins, 4 losses / 111.6%

4th) Western Bulldogs '16 = 8 wins, 5 losses / 101.2%

I would presume that the majority of those Richmond 19 losses were when up to 10 of their best team was injured. Hate to use injuries as an excuse as Eagles will probably bring up Natanui and...

 

[HTT]

As I said hindsight’s an easy one, but Davis looked proppy right before the game. And Whitfield could only kick on his left foot. This was evident early in the first quarter. I wonder what the expectation was on them for the day?

Davis was matched on Riewoldt who kicked 5. And the backline looked for Whitfield to exit the ball from the back half. So incredibly crucial roles.

Did a double take when I saw them announce no changes to GWS’s side. Sitting right above his fitness test he looked nowhere near right. Crazy decision to play him.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Did a double take when I saw them announce no changes to GWS’s side. Sitting right above his fitness test he looked nowhere near right. Crazy decision to play him.

Ill second this, I was watching above at the PRE and texting my mates that he was no chance.... was gobsmacked when it was announced he was playing...

Once he was at pace and running in a straight line he was ok, but he could take off or change direction without looking lame.

 

[ShaunWCEFC]

I would presume that the majority of those Richmond 19 losses were when up to 10 of their best team was injured. Hate to use injuries as an excuse as Eagles will probably bring up Natanui and...

Don't know where you got 10 from, but here are the injuries from both sides in those years.

RICHMOND
Alex Rance - season (didn't return obviously)
Jack Riewoldt - 12 weeks
Jack Higgins - 12 weeks (didn't return)
Trent Cotchin - 11 weeks
Toby Nankervis - 11 weeks
Jayden Short - 10 weeks
Josh Caddy - 7 weeks
Kane Lambert - 4 weeks

WEST COAST EAGLES
Liam Ryan - 12 weeks
Josh Kennedy - 11 weeks
Daniel Venables - 10 weeks
Nic Naitanui - 9 weeks (didn't return)
Andrew Gaff - 6 weeks (didn't return)
Tom Barrass - 6 weeks
Luke Shuey - 4 weeks
Jack Darling - 4 weeks
Brad Sheppard - 2 weeks (didn't return)

Injuries are apart of the game, only the best teams can push through them.

 

[BF Tiger]

Don't know where you got 10 from, but here are the injuries from both sides in those years.

RICHMOND
Alex Rance - season (didn't return obviously)
Jack Riewoldt - 12 weeks
Jack Higgins - 12 weeks (didn't return)
Trent Cotchin - 11 weeks
Toby Nankervis - 11 weeks
Jayden Short - 10 weeks
Josh Caddy - 7 weeks
Kane Lambert - 4 weeks
Shaun Grigg/Marlion Pickett
Sydney Stack
Jack Graham


WEST COAST EAGLES
Liam Ryan - 12 weeks
Josh Kennedy - 11 weeks
Daniel Venables - 10 weeks
Nic Naitanui - 9 weeks (didn't return)
Andrew Gaff - 6 weeks (didn't return)
Tom Barrass - 6 weeks
Luke Shuey - 4 weeks
Jack Darling - 4 weeks
Brad Sheppard - 2 weeks (didn't return)

Injuries are apart of the game, only the best teams can push through them.

EFA

 

[Lsta062]

Record against Top 8 sides

1st) West Coast Eagles '18 = 9 wins, 3 losses / 118.9%

2nd) Richmond '19 = 8 wins, 4 losses / 106.8%

3rd) Richmond '17 = 7 wins, 4 losses / 111.6%

4th) Western Bulldogs '16 = 8 wins, 5 losses / 101.2%

Why did you not use all games teams played and just the games against top 8 teams? How good would a team be if they won against all the top 8 sides and lost against the bottom 10 sides? It would have still proved the point you are making without discounting any games.


1. West Coast 2018 = 19 wins and 6 losses = 123.81%

2. Richmond 2019 = 19 wins and 6 losses = 121.04 %

3. Richmond 2017 = 18 wins and 7 losses = 123.93%

4. Western Bulldogs 2016 = 19 wins and 7 losses = 118.26%*

*Bulldogs are last because they played more games than Richmond 2017 did, meaning that they had the opportunity to win more than the other 3 teams. However, their losses are the same and their percentage is lower than Richmond.

It really shows how close the last 4 Premiers have been to each other. I still think Richmond is the best of all of those Premiers, but that is because I personally don't think that the end of the year ladder is the only determinant for comparing who is better than who. It is a good indicator, but I think the fact that there is only a difference of ~2.8% between West Coast 2018 and Richmond 2019 means that a couple of other factors come into play in determining who is the better Premier.

 

[SplintWhisky]

Don't know where you got 10 from, but here are the injuries from both sides in those years.

RICHMOND
Alex Rance - season (didn't return obviously)
Jack Riewoldt - 12 weeks
Jack Higgins - 12 weeks (didn't return)
Trent Cotchin - 11 weeks
Toby Nankervis - 11 weeks
Jayden Short - 10 weeks
Josh Caddy - 7 weeks
Kane Lambert - 4 weeks

WEST COAST EAGLES
Liam Ryan - 12 weeks
Josh Kennedy - 11 weeks
Daniel Venables - 10 weeks
Nic Naitanui - 9 weeks (didn't return)
Andrew Gaff - 6 weeks (didn't return)
Tom Barrass - 6 weeks
Luke Shuey - 4 weeks
Jack Darling - 4 weeks
Brad Sheppard - 2 weeks (didn't return)

Injuries are apart of the game, only the best teams can push through them.

Are you including the Gaff suspension as part of the "didnt return" group?

 

[juss]

I thought Davis was always going to play - he has a great record against Riewoldt.

Injured players have been played in finals forever. Everyone makes a fuss when they go wrong and ignore those times they go right. Broad was clearly concussed the week before, and would almost certainly have missed a week of H&A football - but it was a Grand Final. And he was fine.

In 2018 we played Astbury when he was unfit - and Cox killed us (in one quarter). Maybe it was because of Astbury's illness - maybe not. Don't know, and we aren't getting a replay.

You make a call, and live or die with it.

Martin was on one leg too I think still recovering from a quad corkie. He was incredibly restricted that match.

The reason clubs do it is simple, they assume that a 60% Martin or a 70% Whitfield is better than the next best player coming in. Even if they only produce their 100% ability for a 5 minute burst or single moment, that could be a winning goal from Martin or a dash through the middle and pinpoint kick from Whitfield to set up the winning goal. What often happens is those guys are just far too restricted to have any real impact.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

EFA

Even your more educated list doesn't include Astbury 3, Houligan 3, Ross half a season. The Tigers were badly hurt by a lot of these guys missing a string of games simultaneously, but then this worked to our advantage when most came back to play together at the end of the season.

 

[BF Tiger]

Are you including the Gaff suspension as part of the "didnt return" group?

Maybe we should add Macintosh to the list. Dropped... suspended... injured... they’re all the same.

 

[BF Tiger]

Even your more educated list doesn't include Astbury 3, Houligan 3, Ross half a season. The Tigers were badly hurt by a lot of these guys missing a string of games simultaneously, but then this worked to our advantage when most came back to play together at the end of the season.

It’s almost like some people don’t consider injury management and prevention a part of the game. It’s just some factor determined by luck.

When Cotch did his hammy the second time we could’ve rushed him back but the club was super-conservative, and it paid dividends. IIRC Jack was itching to get back but the club held him back. Lynch was new to the club and returning from surgery, but the club managed him, played him in every game and reduced expectations.

It’s not luck, it’s science.

 

[Tiger71]

Flash in the pan? WC played in 2 GFs in 4 years and were/are contending again this year. I suggest you look up the definition of flash in the pan.

Hawks or Brisbane didnt get flogged in a prelim between their flags. Lol. Brisbane and Hawks also had to win games away from home to win their flags. Dont insult those sides with your gibberish.



You won by 6 points. 1 kick. oh man, you're hopeless.

We had 10 more scoring shots, not including 3 kicks out on the full.....even your coach said you were lucky to be in it early in the third. If we had of kicked straight it easily could have been a 50 point win

 

[Tiger71]

Juddy, Cousins, Kerr and big Cox would mop the floor with your precious Tigers. You're obviously getting a little upset so I'll stop it.

Actually all those 3 most likely would have been WADA suspended due to how testing is done now.

 

[WillHayward]

Tigers 2019.

Ok no Rance but this was a team just in sync and humming as a collective like a F1 engine. All the parts were working together as one and the mindset was ready to perform .

 

[Coaster2012]

We had 10 more scoring shots, not including 3 kicks out on the full.....even your coach said you were lucky to be in it early in the third. If we had of kicked straight it easily could have been a 50 point win

Easily could have been a 50 point win if you didnt miss a kick all game? Has any team even done that like...ever? Lol

 

[Rowan18]

Why did you not use all games teams played and just the games against top 8 teams? How good would a team be if they won against all the top 8 sides and lost against the bottom 10 sides? It would have still proved the point you are making without discounting any games.


1. West Coast 2018 = 19 wins and 6 losses = 123.81%

2. Richmond 2019 = 19 wins and 6 losses = 121.04 %

3. Richmond 2017 = 18 wins and 7 losses = 123.93%

4. Western Bulldogs 2016 = 19 wins and 7 losses = 118.26%*

*Bulldogs are last because they played more games than Richmond 2017 did, meaning that they had the opportunity to win more than the other 3 teams. However, their losses are the same and their percentage is lower than Richmond.

It really shows how close the last 4 Premiers have been to each other. I still think Richmond is the best of all of those Premiers, but that is because I personally don't think that the end of the year ladder is the only determinant for comparing who is better than who. It is a good indicator, but I think the fact that there is only a difference of ~2.8% between West Coast 2018 and Richmond 2019 means that a couple of other factors come into play in determining who is the better Premier.

Thanks for highlighting how close the teams are in ability. We really need to see a Richmond vs WCE final this season (hopefully a GF), as it has the chance to be an all-time classic. It would also go a long way to shutting up both supporter groups on this forum

 

[Wallaby]

Thanks for highlighting how close the teams are in ability. We really need to see a Richmond vs WCE final this season (hopefully a GF), as it has the chance to be an all-time classic. It would also go a long way to shutting up both supporter groups on this forum

That would be good from a purist point of view. I must admit I have a hankering for a Richmond-Collingwood GF, (that we should have got last year), because the town would be insane for a week. Similarly, it would be worth visiting my rellos in Perth for a Freo-West Coast GF, or Adelaide for a Showdown GF.

 

[Ceehook]

Which premiership side is the best of the last four years

best by what measure ?

measuring the performance against Top 8 sides gives you consistency during the home and away season
which in its self is important as that plays a big part in getting into the top 8 and where you finish in it

Premierships are won and lost in September so how do we measure that ?

Performances on Grand final day can be misleading , example Geelong 2007 , Port make the GF riddled with injury
I declared the game over before 1/4 time , Port had raised the white flag
Because Geelong didn't beat a seriously good opponent playing at their best on the day doesn't mean they were rubbish
They hit GF day in sparkling form and were ready to rumble , I think they could have beaten the premiers from the years around 2007
they had a real buzz going and history has shown the side to be laden with talent

I don't think we can take a Champion data approach to the question of this thread

You have to go on gut feel

I would put the 2016 WB at the bottom of the 4 because we didn't see enough of their Sept. 16 form to get a handle on them

and not being a "suck" I'd make it a 3 way photo finish for the other 3 years

2019 > 2018 > 2017
2019 the slightest of edges , the way they built from the mid season break , finished the season with absolute crackers of games v WC & Lions
the buzz around after the late season Tigers WC game was off the charts and the respect the supporters from each had for the other was huge
and then the Tigers powered through Sept. to grab the cup
2018 the most hard fought grand final of the 4 years and the cleanliness and composure of WC , truly amazing

2017 the wave the Tigers rode to the finals serious made the hairs stand up on the necks of commentators and non supporters , for them to hold their composure and deliver for each game in the final series, top draw stuff , Adelaide were cooked and in the second half didn't test the Tigers
I just have the gut feel the composure and skills and game plans of 2018 & 2019 might have been able to edge out the wave of emotion that was 2017


and if by some magic we could have WC '18 go against Tigers 2019 I think we'd see a repeat of the late 2019 game , an absolute cracker that could go either way