Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth? Part 2

[H00t]

Yep agree. We need to start rising up the ladder and quickly. I thought 6-7 wins was fair for this year. The way we are going hanging around the bottom 2 each year, we’ll end up having a starting 18 full of top end draft picks that can’t win. If 2025 ends up being like this year, then it’s time to pack us up, the supporters are getting really tired of losing each week.

It’s a little crazy to think that despite the improvement you’ve had from a number of younger players you guys are still looking at having the same amount of wins and a worse percentage compared to last year.

 

[Eatosk]

It’s a little crazy to think that despite the improvement you’ve had from a number of younger players you guys are still looking at having the same amount of wins and a worse percentage compared to last year.

It is, our senior players are letting our team down. They lack leadership and are struggling doing simple basic skills like kicking to advantage. Watching the Hawks go about it yesterday, shows the gap between our club and your club. Your young players are firing because the senior players are leading by example. Won’t lie, getting a bit jealous of the Hawks right now.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Our senior players need to lift
McDonald and Simpkin poor
Shiels is limping to the line
Larkey is hit and miss, needs a proper second tall which should be comben next year to help him
Zurhaar inconsistent

Tucker and Corr have been solid

Hawks senior players on the other hand are in form, Sicily, Moore, Gunston, Breust, chol, impey, Amon, frost etc

 

[Philhawk]

At this stage, stuff the picks. Offer whatever it takes to grab Macrae from Dogs, Morrison from Hawks, Parker from Swans and Viney from Dees.

Are you going to pay overs? Probably. But imagine those three blokes running around setting the culture instead of some of the current duds.

 

[5minutes_of_Dew]

Our senior players need to lift
McDonald and Simpkin poor
Shiels is limping to the line
Larkey is hit and miss, needs a proper second tall which should be comben next year to help him
Zurhaar inconsistent

Tucker and Corr have been solid

Hawks senior players on the other hand are in form, Sicily, Moore, Gunston, Breust, chol, impey, Amon, frost etc

As a mad Hawk, I honestly want North to do well.

But it does make me extremely happy when I think about the leaders we've developed in the last couple of years.

Will Day and Dylan Moore specifically will drive standards for the next 10 years and their work rates are absolutely phenomenal. It will bring the rest along with them.

Add Newcombe on top of that and we've got 3 hardened warriors who would run through a brick wall for the club and we're in exceptional shape for a long time moving forward.

 

[Freomaniac]

Crazy to think hawks can make finals despite being 0-5 earlier this season

 

[RCAB]

Crazy to think hawks can make finals despite being 0-5 earlier this season

Yeah it's pretty weird. Last time a team was 0-5 and made the finals, was Sydney in 2017 (they went 0-6) but they had finished on top of the ladder the previous year and also made the Grand Final.

For a bottom 4 team to start 0-5 and then make finals would be unprecedented. In 1975 North made the finals after 0-4, but like Sydney they were also a team that made a grand final the previous year.

 

[Sphynx]

At this stage, stuff the picks. Offer whatever it takes to grab Macrae from Dogs, Morrison from Hawks, Parker from Swans and Viney from Dees.

Are you going to pay overs? Probably. But imagine those three blokes running around setting the culture instead of some of the current duds.

One is not like the other, lol.

 

[Sphynx]

His hitouts winrate and overall numbers are good 34 hitouts (43%) but 25% for HTA is poor.

Marshall even worse with 26 hitouts (37%) but 24.5% for HTA.

Good hitout rucks tend to have HTA rates of closer to 30 and above. Numbers aren’t easiest to measure in this case.

But anyone who watches Xerri and Marshall will know their game isn’t built off of being strong at giving first use and that’s okay.

IF you value HTA % so much, I assume you will be advocating for the recruitment of Nick Bryan and the dropping of Meek then?

Similarly going all out for Sean Darcy because he's better than Max Gawn because he has a much higher win % and higher HTA stats?

 

[SSSSSS]

Powell?

He had 26 touches, 6 clearances, 9 score involvements, kicked 2 and a goal assist?

A great offensive game. Reminds me of a young Jordan Lewis. Only the two tackles though.

Are North midfielders exempt from running both ways? That midfield absolutely collapsed in the last five minutes to a very blue collared Eagles side.

Why can't they run out 4 quarters of football yet? Who is in charge of fitness at North Melbourne?

This has been an issue for 5+ years and I have no idea why it hasn't been rectified yet.

This supposedly mythical elite North Melbourne midfield are the worst team in the comp for differentials in scoring from stoppages, and second only to Richmond as the worst team for scores generated from centre bounce. They all are great at finding the pill but who is North Melbourne's Nash/Hewett/Rowbottom/Atkins/Dunkley?

 

[Sphynx]

A great offensive game. Reminds me of a young Jordan Lewis. Only the two tackles though.

Are North midfielders exempt from running both ways? That midfield absolutely collapsed in the last five minutes to a very blue collared Eagles side.

Why can't they run out 4 quarters of football yet? Who is in charge of fitness at North Melbourne?

This has been an issue for 5+ years and I have no idea why it hasn't been rectified yet.

This supposedly mythical elite North Melbourne midfield are the worst team in the comp for differentials in scoring from stoppages, and second only to Richmond as the worst team for scores generated from centre bounce. They all are great at finding the pill but who is North Melbourne's Nash/Hewett/Rowbottom/Atkins/Dunkley?

The bloke that wasn't playing? The one with the best defensive numbers in the league for an u/23 other than Rowell?

The other one with massive defensive numbers and a huge tank busted his ankle in the start of the 3rd quarter.

And Xerri is North's Nash, just a better version.

 

[SSSSSS]

The bloke that wasn't playing? The one with the best defensive numbers in the league for an u/23 other than Rowell?

The other one with massive defensive numbers and a huge tank busted his ankle in the start of the 3rd quarter.

Surely a ball winning talent like George would be wasted playing on the defensive side of stoppage. That would be up there with pick 1 for a sideways merchant backpocket like McGrath.

 

[Sphynx]

Surely a ball winning talent like George would be wasted playing on the defensive side of stoppage.

Lol, what is it then? It can only be one or the other?

George is a unique beast, because of his speed and power, his stats show he can do both to a high level.

 

[SSSSSS]

Lol, what is it then? It can only be one or the other?

George is a unique beast, because of his speed and power, his stats show he can do both to a high level.

And yet North are still extremely easy to score against in stoppage and through the centre. Go figure.

The mythical elite North Melbourne midfield just really isn't translating to any results in reality. Maybe next year but I've heard the same stories year in and year out so I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Sphynx]

And yet North are still extremely easy to score against in stoppage and through the centre. Go figure.

The mythical elite North Melbourne midfield just really isn't translating to any results in reality. Maybe next year but I've heard the same stories year in and year out so I'll believe it when I see it.

Sides tend to be easy to score against when missing your two best defensive midfielders. Go figure.

Do you read what you write?

 

[SSSSSS]

Sides tend to be easy to score against when missing your two best defensive midfielders. Go figure.

Do you read what you write?

Has George not played 16 games this season? Who is the other defensive beast that North has been hiding?

Pretty easy to score against last year too. And the year before. And before that...

 

[Sphynx]

Has George not played 16 games this season? Who is the other defensive beast that North has been hiding?

Pretty easy to score against last year too. And the year before. And before that...

I dunno, it depends what data spread you are quoting from?

Can you refer to the games exactly which sway it? Like the game on the weekend without Wardlaw?

Are you talking pre or post bye stats?

You know you don't need to get on here after every Tuesday and start rattling off CD team stats that are largely irrelvant.

Unless you would also like to acknowledge that North has the best back 6 in the league at defending the ball when it enters a teams D50?

It's true we are one of the poorer teams at converting clearance into scores, but you fail to mention we are also one of the best teams at the moment at winning them.

Fremantle have been the same for a big portion of the season.

But that would go beyond back tracking on months and years worth of pot shots. Wouldn't it?

 

[SSSSSS]

I dunno, it depends what data spread you are quoting from?

Can you refer to the games exactly which sway it? Like the game on the weekend without Wardlaw?

Are you talking pre or post bye stats?

You know you don't need to get on here after every Tuesday and start rattling off CD team stats that are largely irrelvant.

Unless you would also like to acknowledge that North has the best back 6 in the league at defending the ball when it enters a teams D50?

But that would go beyond back tracking on months, years worth of pot shots.

I'm talking about the entire duration of the 2024 season. I would have thought 21 games would provide a pretty decent statistical representation of how a team is performing. I very much doubt George missing a handful of games is going to completely break your season. If that was the case I'd be asking some very serious questions about your coaching/list management.

That's pretty incredible information about the North back 6. Not sure I've heard that nor has it passed the eye test but good for them if true. I've liked the inclusion of Archer and Corr while still a worry with ball in hand has been doing much better defensively. They've had plenty of practice with the amount of inside 50's the midfield and forward group is consistently conceding.

 

[BRider]

Norths two issues are simple.

1. Lack of senior leadership and form - needs to be a change in this next season. Simpkin and McDonald can't be captains.

2. Lack of forward cohesion - has been an issue for years and it needs to improve. We smashed the eagles in every start apart from scores from inside 50's. That is where the game was lost.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

IF you value HTA % so much, I assume you will be advocating for the recruitment of Nick Bryan and the dropping of Meek then?

Similarly going all out for Sean Darcy because he's better than Max Gawn because he has a much higher win % and higher HTA stats?

HTA % is really hard to gauge due to games played, but also the eye test generally. Xerri isn’t a tap ruck and it doesn’t mean he isn’t good, he’s just better at different things, same for Tim English & Marshall.

There’s some good tap rucks that aren’t good enough at other things, or rucks who are good at everything including giving first use.

I don’t know why you’re being so defensive when literally anyone who watches Xerri plays knows he isn’t the best at giving first use or giving it to advantage on a platter, but is much better at bullocking around stoppages, and just being a massive dominant presence.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Norths two issues are simple.

1. Lack of senior leadership and form - needs to be a change in this next season. Simpkin and McDonald can't be captains.

2. Lack of forward cohesion - has been an issue for years and it needs to improve. We smashed the eagles in every start apart from scores from inside 50's. That is where the game was lost.

Yes

Yes

3. Youthful depth and spread. Top end talent is elite but the drop off is large.

Also just comes down to as you said senior players, but I’d rather play a side of 20 year olds than play some of the experience you do every week, Shiels for example.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yeah it's pretty weird. Last time a team was 0-5 and made the finals, was Sydney in 2017 (they went 0-6) but they had finished on top of the ladder the previous year and also made the Grand Final.

For a bottom 4 team to start 0-5 and then make finals would be unprecedented. In 1975 North made the finals after 0-4, but like Sydney they were also a team that made a grand final the previous year.

North Melbourne won their 1st flag in 1975 too.

Saying that, north went from bottom with 1 win in 1972, then 6th and narrowly missed finals in 1973. Grand final in 1974 and flag in 1975

 

[hawkman]

North Melbourne won their 1st flag in 1975 too.

Saying that, north went from bottom with 1 win in 1972, then 6th and narrowly missed finals in 1973. Grand final in 1974 and flag in 1975

They were massive beneficiaries from the 10 year rule that lasted less than a year, getting Barry Davis, John Rantall and Doug Wade
Not just the current AFL admin they create rules and then backtrack quickly when problems were created because of the rules they brought

 

[Sphynx]

They were massive beneficiaries from the 10 year rule that lasted less than a year, getting Barry Davis, John Rantall and Doug Wade
Not just the current AFL admin they create rules and then backtrack quickly when problems were created because of the rules they brought

Good top up players, but hardly the stars of those sides.

 

[SSSSSS]

No Sheezel in the middle to do the heavy lifting. Got absolutely pantsed today.

I'm getting concerned about George. Seems to always be second to the ball, gets sucked into the contest and exposed on the outside. Just seems like he either has poor footy IQ or his timing is just completely off (I'm guessing the latter as I rate him highly ball in hand).