Oppo Camp Who’s your team

[Partridge]

Surely it can’t just be me that sees the irony in the whole ‘plastic franchise’ thing with GWS when almost as a rule they play with more inherent spirit than nearly any club in the comp?

Every club was in its infancy at some stage.

Exactly this. I'm really enjoying watching them now. The fact that they've shown this year they can travel anywhere - and win anywhere - while playing in front of 7 of their own fans every week is pretty impressive.

 

[PhatBoy]

I think it's the fact that very few of the other infants were fed with the same silver spoon.

Looking at the other infants, the four SA/WA clubs were from rusted on AFL states and despite Fremantle’s inability to become a contender for 15 years, all four were at least competitive very quickly and were never going to NEED to be handed draft picks etc.

Sydney were just a Melbourne team relocated. Brisbane I don’t know enough about but eventually got a pretty good deal out of Fitzroy.

Really not sure what the Giants have been given that the Suns weren’t - including the best player in the game. As the suns have proven, it doesn’t guarantee you anything

 

[Cataholic]

Looking at the other infants, the four SA/WA clubs were from rusted on AFL states and despite Fremantle’s inability to become a contender for 15 years, all four were at least competitive very quickly and were never going to NEED to be handed draft picks etc.

Sydney were just a Melbourne team relocated. Brisbane I don’t know enough about but eventually got a pretty good deal out of Fitzroy.

Really not sure what the Giants have been given that the Suns weren’t - including the best player in the game. As the suns have proven, it doesn’t guarantee you anything

All true, but I think the subtle difference, rightly or wrongly, is that the previous examples are seen to have earned some respect from their history, whereas the Suns and Giants are seen to have been parachuted in, and pushed to the front of the queue. They haven't earned their 'stripes' so to speak.

 

[PhatBoy]

All true, but I think the subtle difference, rightly or wrongly, is that the previous examples are seen to have earned some respect from their history, whereas the Suns and Giants are seen to have been parachuted in, and pushed to the front of the queue. They haven't earned their 'stripes' so to speak.

Look they probably were but the fact is with the other sides all of them were going to garner support eventually, and succeed eventually.

You could argue that even if the Suns failed for 30 years the AFL would keep propping them up I guess but realistically they would have thought, with good reason, that for both investments to be at all successful, they needed to be competitive within 5 years whereas a club like Port or Freo etc, they could afford to bumble along for a decade or more and still draw a following simply because they’re based in afl heartland.

If the cats didn’t exist I’d jump on the Giants wagon. It’s geographically my closest team and I love the way they play.

 

[jim boy]

Gold Coast lacks a tribe. I could be wrong, but from a far, it seems to me that Gold Coast core population, those who born and bred there, who feel a strong tribal connection there is quite small in number - tribes are what makes footy clubs. GWS, on the other hand, tribe belonging in Western Sydney is massive. It'll take decades maybe, but GWS will become one of the most ferociously supported teams.

 

[Hinkley29]

Gold Coast lacks a tribe. I could be wrong, but from a far, it seems to me that Gold Coast core population, those who born and bred there, who feel a strong tribal connection there is quite small in number - tribes are what makes footy clubs. GWS, on the other hand, tribe belonging in Western Sydney is massive. It'll take decades maybe, but GWS will become one of the most ferociously supported teams.

Western Sydney is definitely tribal. But it is also die hard rugby league country. Like, irrationally die hard rugby league country.

The heartland of western Sydney is parramatta, Bankstown, Penrith and Campbelltown. These places live and breathe rugby league with a myopic passion that people from outside of Sydney don’t understand. Yes it is a growing population, but the growth is largely migrant driven and these people usually have a strong preference for soccer if they don’t choose rugby league. I do not see a day where Aussie rules has a foothold in the market in western Sydney.

The western Sydney market does not have an affinity for Aussie rules as a sport. They love rugby league for the history and the brutality of the sport, and in their eyes Aussie rules has neither of these qualities. And those that don’t like the brutality of rugby league will nearly always gravitate to soccer as the likely alternative.

The swans are a very different market - mostly inner city, north shore and eastern suburbs fan base where rugby league has less of a following. These markets would traditionally have been more likely to follow rugby union but the swans have taken a decent chunk of this market. Rugby union is dying and the swans have filled the vacuum. They originally tapped into the theatre goer market, and now have carved a nice niche of high socioeconomic supporters who enjoy going to the scg for a pleasant afternoon or evening.

The afl trying to crack western Sydney would be like rugby union trying to get a foothold in Footscray. Nigh on impossible.

The Gold Coast has different issues altogether. SE qld is predominantly rugby league (and to lesser extent rugby union) but even the nrl has never been able to be successful in the market. Soccer, basketball, afl, nrl have all had a go at that market and none have succeeded. It seems that Gold Coast people don’t really care for tribal following of any sport, they have different lifestyle choices available to them and have opted out.

 

[bulletproof]

Agree with the above, in a football sense, Giants are a success but off the field they are getting virtually no traction.

A lot of the tickets at games are complimentary to local football clubs.

AFL is big in the Swans heartland but you will struggle to get AFL fans in the West beyond say Ashfield/Burwood.

Dual problem of soccer and NRL.

 

[No Quarter]

My picks are GWS or Carlton.

GWS because the inaugural flag would be sweet but also because they'd have to have played a pretty incredible finals performance to cap off a year that wasn't dominant overall

I have a couple of mates who are Carlton supporters. I've also usually got a soft spot for those that haven't tasted success for quite a while, ie Dogs 16, Richmond 17, Melbourne 21. Funnily, after they get it though, I usually lose interest. Hate Richmond these days, have never really rated the Dogs and don't particularly enjoy much about the Dees either.

Port have had enough opportunity so I don't view them as deserving, even if they win the flag I'm probably more likely to judge the opposition as losing rather than Port winning, lol. Almost a similar take for Brisbane, though I won't be disappointed if they're premiers.

 

[jim boy]

Western Sydney is definitely tribal. But it is also die hard rugby league country. Like, irrationally die hard rugby league country.

The heartland of western Sydney is parramatta, Bankstown, Penrith and Campbelltown. These places live and breathe rugby league with a myopic passion that people from outside of Sydney don’t understand. Yes it is a growing population, but the growth is largely migrant driven and these people usually have a strong preference for soccer if they don’t choose rugby league. I do not see a day where Aussie rules has a foothold in the market in western Sydney.

The western Sydney market does not have an affinity for Aussie rules as a sport. They love rugby league for the history and the brutality of the sport, and in their eyes Aussie rules has neither of these qualities. And those that don’t like the brutality of rugby league will nearly always gravitate to soccer as the likely alternative.

I don't disagree with the scale of the challenge but I do not think it is insurmountable. People, once they pick their tribe, don't change, regardless of the aesthetics of what's on show. But the AFL isn't asking people to drop NRL. I'm talking young kids, I'm talking females who may decide to follow the AFLW or play women's football because it appeals. I believe the Giants get a lot of free-to-air broadcast time in Sydney and that exposure has helped get to 33,000 members - yeah a lot of that is soft, but it is definitely growing.
And the AFL will never give up in Western Sydney - it is a cornerstone of their rights agreement that they have content of interest to the Sydney market - in that way the Giants way outstrip the cost of subsidising them with the broadcast revenue they indirectly raise.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

I'm really digging GWS at the moment. I hope they make the prelim.

 

[stac]

Like the way GWS are playing
Love Toby
Don't know anyone who supports them so would have to say Go the "Orange Team"
would hate if Blues, Pies or Port won because of their supporters

 

[Goggin Our Best]

I don't disagree with the scale of the challenge but I do not think it is insurmountable. People, once they pick their tribe, don't change, regardless of the aesthetics of what's on show. But the AFL isn't asking people to drop NRL. I'm talking young kids, I'm talking females who may decide to follow the AFLW or play women's football because it appeals. I believe the Giants get a lot of free-to-air broadcast time in Sydney and that exposure has helped get to 33,000 members - yeah a lot of that is soft, but it is definitely growing.
And the AFL will never give up in Western Sydney - it is a cornerstone of their rights agreement that they have content of interest to the Sydney market - in that way the Giants way outstrip the cost of subsidising them with the broadcast revenue they indirectly raise.

Thats the really important bit - GWS who i think have done a really good job to date - re their results over the past decade - won a fair amount of respect because as a general rule they have been pretty competitive and been hard to beat - and have played a decent/watchable brand of football - so GWS they will still be around in 50 years time

Western Sydney is a hard market - yes its a Rugby league heartland - however the crowds that attend Rugby League matches are not big at all - compared to AFL games in other states

Like the Melb Storm have done a fantastic job - won flags - been very strong for a long time - it would be interesting what their average home crowd is - and thats what you have to compare GWS with - those type of numbers

 

[Hinkley29]

Thats the really important bit - GWS who i think have done a really good job to date - re their results over the past decade - won a fair amount of respect because as a general rule they have been pretty competitive and been hard to beat - and have played a decent/watchable brand of football - so GWS they will still be around in 50 years time

Western Sydney is a hard market - yes its a Rugby league heartland - however the crowds that attend Rugby League matches are not big at all - compared to AFL games in other states

Like the Melb Storm have done a fantastic job - won flags - been very strong for a long time - it would be interesting what their average home crowd is - and thats what you have to compare GWS with - those type of numbers

Melbourne storm are one of the biggest cheats in the history of sports. They are in no way a club that any self respecting team should try and emulate.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Melbourne storm are one of the biggest cheats in the history of sports. They are in no way a club that any self respecting team should try and emulate.

i was saying comparing the crowd numbers between the 2 clubs

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Really not sure what the Giants have been given that the Suns weren’t - including the best player in the game. As the suns have proven, it doesn’t guarantee you anything

The Giants were given an extra year of draft concessions.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Melbourne storm are one of the biggest cheats in the history of sports. They are in no way a club that any self respecting team should try and emulate.

This. The biggest plastic franchise in the country too.

They got most of their supporters from AFL land, who didn't even understand the game ... but they started winning so why not. And the rest were already living in Melbourne who were sick of their original NRL side losing and jumped ship ... or were Kiwi's that couldn't even follow their own side because they were shit too.

 

[PhatBoy]

The Giants were given an extra year of draft concessions.

Doesn’t go within a bull’s roar of explaining the differing fortunes of the two sides, the Suns were given potentially a top 5 player of all time, a guy who was an all Australian CHB two seasons earlier, hell even the salary chewing rugby league convert at the Suns was much better than the one at the Giants, but they still couldn’t convert it. Perhaps if Gaz doesn’t smash his shoulder that changes

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Doesn’t go within a bull’s roar of explaining the differing fortunes of the two sides, the Suns were given potentially a top 5 player of all time, a guy who was an all Australian CHB two seasons earlier, hell even the salary chewing rugby league convert at the Suns was much better than the one at the Giants, but they still couldn’t convert it. Perhaps if Gaz doesn’t smash his shoulder that changes

They had a coach who um, couldn't coach.

 

[PhatBoy]

This. The biggest plastic franchise in the country too.

They got most of their supporters from AFL land, who didn't even understand the game ... but they started winning so why not. And the rest were already living in Melbourne who were sick of their original NRL side losing and jumped ship ... or were Kiwi's that couldn't even follow their own side because they were s**t too.

Garbage.

They’ve actually promoted a relatively high (compared to popular belief, at least) number of Victorian players through their system, they’ve created a fairly rusted on supporter base and the notion that ‘some fans are more fans than others’ is a ridiculous notion.

Got most of their supporters from AFL land? Gee, sterling job working that one out.

In Melbourne? No, really? You don’t say.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Garbage.

They’ve actually promoted a relatively high (compared to popular belief, at least) number of Victorian players through their system, they’ve created a fairly rusted on supporter base and the notion that ‘some fans are more fans than others’ is a ridiculous notion.

Got most of their supporters from AFL land? Gee, sterling job working that one out.

In Melbourne? No, really? You don’t say.

Plastic supporters, plastic club.

And they're cheats.

 

[PhatBoy]

Melbourne storm are one of the biggest cheats in the history of sports. They are in no way a club that any self respecting team should try and emulate.

Well yeah, they are.

For starters, they made the finals the first year they existed.
Then they won the comp.
And they did it without the superstar line ups that would come later.
Brett Kimmorley came from a defunct Super League side (Hunter Mariners) because he couldn’t get a game at Newcastle behind the Johns brothers.
Stephen Kearney was a teenage prodigy who never quite fulfilled his talent at Wests albeit he was still good, and was part of a Warriors pack that couldn’t keep all its players. Tawera Nikau was a bit overlooked because like Kearney he was a Kiwi so without Origin eligibility they don’t carry as much currency. Craig Smith was a no-name winger, Marcus Bai was a PNG recruit from the Gold Coast Chargers.

They cobbler a team together and won a comp and they’ve been at or near the top basically ever since.

Now, that doesn’t exonerate them from cheating the salary cap.

BUT.

That team they put together wasn’t done through recruiting big names from elsewhere, it wasn’t done through being handed draft picks as there is no such thing.
It was done through having an incredible recruiting staff, outstanding coaches who had an amazing knack of turning average players into good role players, and building a culture of success. And every single one of the players they picked up? They’d have had to pay them overs.

So while I have no issue whatsoever with them getting caught out and being stripped of a couple of titles etc, it doesn’t diminish the level of respect I have for what they actually produce and how they produce it. They’re an amazing club.

And that’s from someone who sure as shit doesn’t support them

 

[PhatBoy]

Plastic supporters, plastic club.

And they're cheats.

Mate so are the Bulldogs.
So are Carlton.
Just because 5000 f***wits go ‘woof woof woof’ at Belmore once a year when they ‘go back to their spiritual home’ doesn’t mean shit.

 

[Mr Meow]

Can we send this off topic tribalistic league conversation to another thread, or even another forum?

The Big Big Sound is getting blocked out.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Mate so are the Bulldogs.
So are Carlton.
Just because 5000 f***wits go ‘woof woof woof’ at Belmore once a year when they ‘go back to their spiritual home’ doesn’t mean s**t.

 

[Mr Meow]

Vdubs they're stronger than the rest...

Biggest AND the best?